General Discussion

Romulox

(25,960 posts)

140. OK. But that doesn't speak to the magnitude or pervasiveness of various privileges.

Wed May 16, 2012, 04:41 PM

May 2012

My assertion is that class privileges clearly and overwhelmingly trump all others.

In your Tiger woods example, for instance, it wouldn't be enough for Tiger to "dress down". He'd also have to borrow a non-luxury automobile, and perhaps scuff up his manicured fingernails.

Even then, he couldn't necessarily "pass" for working class. Have you heard how he speaks? Nobody in the Carhartt shop talks like that.

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Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is [View all] RadiationTherapy May 2012 OP

I don't even feel guilty about it. bluedigger May 2012 #1

There is certainly no point to guilt. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #3

Exactly. The point is to acknowledge it. arbusto_baboso May 2012 #11

And then? Of what does the "fix" consist and why is it necessary for me or "everyone" to HiPointDem May 2012 #113

The fact that you can even ask those questions... arbusto_baboso May 2012 #114

Personal insult in place of answering the question. Because I suspect you can't. HiPointDem May 2012 #115

Be honest now. arbusto_baboso May 2012 #117

Yes, I *do* want an answer. And no, my questions weren't insulting, to you personally least HiPointDem May 2012 #118

I think you got a pretty rational and common sense answer TheKentuckian May 2012 #192

Except I didn't ask about the problem. I asked: "Of what does the "fix" consist and why is HiPointDem May 2012 #201

What was insulting about the questions? Llewlladdwr May 2012 #119

I guess so, as no answer comes except from another poster. HiPointDem May 2012 #133

The fix will depend on the particular situation. jeff47 May 2012 #122

Bingo. Not that hard, right? nt stevenleser May 2012 #125

Oh, no, so easy! Just like a movie! HiPointDem May 2012 #128

You're saying that "the fix" is about everyone "doing the right thing" in their particular HiPointDem May 2012 #127

Yes. Because we can't control everyone else. jeff47 May 2012 #129

We can't control anyone else, can we? I wonder what the point of the Civil Rights Movement HiPointDem May 2012 #130

Today isn't 1950 jeff47 May 2012 #134

There aren't? Perhaps you didn't read the addition I made to the post you responded to. HiPointDem May 2012 #135

What addition? jeff47 May 2012 #139

reread the post you just responded to. HiPointDem May 2012 #142

Let me know when you're done editing your posts. jeff47 May 2012 #145

i was already done, which is why i asked you to reread. HiPointDem May 2012 #148

There's way more than one privilege involved. jeff47 May 2012 #154

The implementation is not a product of individual police's "white privilege" except at the margins. HiPointDem May 2012 #156

and i will add, by separate post, as you took exceptions to my edits, that the idea that HiPointDem May 2012 #159

You really stepped off the deep end on this one. kwassa May 2012 #188

Not bullshit at all. Let's say all white americans suddenly became color-blind tomorrow and were HiPointDem May 2012 #202

If you think color-blind is the solution, then you don't understand the problem. kwassa May 2012 #221

I didn't say it was the solution -- I asked you what would change tomorrow if people weren't HiPointDem May 2012 #222

Um, you apparently didn't understand my argument. kwassa May 2012 #224

i think i understood what you said just fine. i don't think you made an argument. rather, HiPointDem May 2012 #228

Oh ... I disagree! 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #162

I doubt that "recognition of their white privilege" was why they were there. HiPointDem May 2012 #164

Come on ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #178

I'm suggesting that recognition of discriminatory policies against blacks is not the same thing HiPointDem May 2012 #179

It most certainly is ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #184

Is it a privilege to eat lunch in a restaurant or sit on any seat in a bus? HiPointDem May 2012 #200

Yes, it is a privilege to eat lunch in a restaurant or sit in any seat of a bus. kwassa May 2012 #226

see, i'm just trying to discuss, and you're being hostile. why? You *are* implying these two HiPointDem May 2012 #227

I think you are missing the point of ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #166

That's because I'm not a white male. HiPointDem May 2012 #180

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #182

No, I'm a white female. And as a female, I think the concept of "male privilege" is also suspect. HiPointDem May 2012 #207

Some don't acknowledge the "setting" or claim it doesn't exist, that's the target of the article uponit7771 May 2012 #12

it is nice to have people on the inside. stonecutter357 May 2012 #81

"HARD" is a relative term! USA hard is not Africa hard. Logical May 2012 #193

This is an excellent metaphor. Brickbat May 2012 #2

I'm not so impressed. bluedigger May 2012 #23

In poker, the assumption is that the deck isn't stacked or marked and the dealer is honest. bigbrother05 May 2012 #69

Just because people can't recognize the privilage doesn't mean it doesn't exist uponit7771 May 2012 #204

No Reason for Guilt but... chickypea May 2012 #4

I would change that to "Straight, White, Neurotypical Male" hifiguy May 2012 #5

I agree with what you are saying. I believe it has the potential to be a can of worms, but I RadiationTherapy May 2012 #7

No problem. As I wrote, I'd just add "neurotypical" hifiguy May 2012 #9

that concept is addressed through the starting points and character creation magical thyme May 2012 #13

I would bet you're not ugly. Zoeisright May 2012 #223

Yes, humans are remarkably gregarious, and dependent upon sociability HereSince1628 May 2012 #28

A pretty accurate way of looking at it bhikkhu May 2012 #6

As a white working class person who's never broken the law, never gone through a bankruptcy, but HiPointDem May 2012 #213

I think the larger theme is that "privilege" is invisible to those who enjoy it bhikkhu May 2012 #220

as a swm i'm wondering when i will be showered with all this fortune and ease that i seem leftyohiolib May 2012 #8

Indeed. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #15

agreed sometimes i cant sleep from the panic attacks i get over how easy i have it leftyohiolib May 2012 #22

I think you're confusing "how easy I have it" with "how difficult others have it". LanternWaste May 2012 #33

how difficult others have it implies how easy i have it it's a bs over generalized blanket leftyohiolib May 2012 #218

Imagine chickypea May 2012 #17

Please, by all means... Llewlladdwr May 2012 #19

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #181

and what privilege might that be? leftyohiolib May 2012 #32

Here's this part again: RadiationTherapy May 2012 #18

ok, if you say. if i do poorly it's b/c i made poor choices but everyone else who is doing poorly leftyohiolib May 2012 #29

No, you don't get it. jeff47 May 2012 #116

So if it all comes down to choices.... Llewlladdwr May 2012 #121

In the choices that are presented to you, and in the outcomes of those choices jeff47 May 2012 #126

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #136

Well, let's go with an extreme example. jeff47 May 2012 #143

A lot of straight white dues have done much better, with less effort, in the same field as Oprah??? Romulox May 2012 #172

And when they make "bad choices" their money & position allows them to continue doing it HiPointDem May 2012 #215

Exactly. You're in the same boat with the rest of the working class. Zalatix May 2012 #199

Dubya should know.. and good ole salt of the earth Mitt. ananda May 2012 #10

to some extent this is true, but still i sometimes ask... KG May 2012 #14

and you know what that says hfojvt May 2012 #16

You are conflating the metaphoric "difficulty setting" with the rest of the very complex forces RadiationTherapy May 2012 #20

the outliers are necessary hfojvt May 2012 #53

"Very complex forces" = CLASS. You can't just ignore it away. nt Romulox May 2012 #54

I am well aware of class and its complexities and it is a very important part of my worldview. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #58

Thank you hjofvt! Llewlladdwr May 2012 #21

I knew it wouldn't be long. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #30

It shouldn't have taken this long. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #146

No, it doesn't. jeff47 May 2012 #120

Equality of Opportunity is not Equality of Condition malthaussen May 2012 #24

Perhaps you can explain it to us. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #25

Maybe Malthaussen feels differently, but I would personally decline to "prove" privilege exists. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #36

Sure, my pleasure malthaussen May 2012 #47

Thank you very much for your reply malthaussen. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #59

I doubt anyone would make that claim... malthaussen May 2012 #65

Bringing class in makes it more difficult to argue for the existense of 'white privilege'. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #73

Institutional advantages, probably so. malthaussen May 2012 #78

Wait aminute, I thought the whole point of 'white privilege' was that it was institutional? Llewlladdwr May 2012 #90

Nope, just modified it malthaussen May 2012 #93

Not a problem. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #94

The advantage it provides is generally better outcomes from the same situations jeff47 May 2012 #132

the problem, of course, is that there is no "we" hfojvt May 2012 #70

That's a different subject, nyet? malthaussen May 2012 #74

I had a different take on hjofvt's final point. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #84

I don't see it as a different subject hfojvt May 2012 #85

+1! NT Llewlladdwr May 2012 #91

I regret I have to log off now malthaussen May 2012 #92

well a good discussion should take several days hfojvt May 2012 #232

As I said before JonLP24 May 2012 #219

that article might have a lot more impact hfojvt May 2012 #231

As I said JonLP24 May 2012 #233

And never will gaspee May 2012 #38

And yet, if inequality of condition is contraindicative of the premise? lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #152

k&r Starry Messenger May 2012 #26

I don't know. randome May 2012 #27

I suppose it would gaspee May 2012 #35

So life is easier for a straight white male from a desperately poor family, living in a trailer park Nye Bevan May 2012 #31

Yes, that is exactly the point of the article. Thanks for putting it so simply. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #34

You're very welcome. Nye Bevan May 2012 #40

Well, you'll have to explore CLASS if you think it matters. If not, that is a fair assessment, imo. Romulox May 2012 #46

Strawmen often are simple. nt NoGOPZone May 2012 #64

nope. Scout May 2012 #55

Comparing like to like, as far as class goes, malthaussen May 2012 #57

I would say that in this case the SBM has greater opportunity. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #61

But on the other hand malthaussen May 2012 #66

Well, this is the point where I think the 'white privilege' argument breaks down completely. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #76

Ah, but is privilege only about "improvement?" malthaussen May 2012 #88

I know you have to leave... Llewlladdwr May 2012 #96

Being able to get a job isn't a privilege, it's survival unless you're independently wealthy. HiPointDem May 2012 #216

No- you are reading it incorrectly Marrah_G May 2012 #95

Because SWMs never face prejudice? Is that really your argument? Llewlladdwr May 2012 #97

If you really think you face prejudie and racism to the extent a person of color does. .. Marrah_G May 2012 #98

Probably not Marrah_G. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #108

Actually I haven't detirmined anything about your life at all Marrah_G May 2012 #110

Or triangles or something, yeah. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #112

Please point me to meaningful scholarship program for only men. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #177

Um, actually, it is color/orientation to a large degree... bullsnarfle May 2012 #107

It's pointless gaspee May 2012 #37

Yeah, it's obviously the SWMs who are lacking in empathy. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #39

Oh please gaspee May 2012 #41

Thank you for illustrating my point gaspee. NT Llewlladdwr May 2012 #42

This privileged, straight white male Nye Bevan May 2012 #43

Was that truly necessary? randome May 2012 #44

How did you even know to look for that horror? nt Lucky Luciano May 2012 #50

If we ignore CLASS, then gender and race are all that matters. But CLASS is the most important. Romulox May 2012 #45

+1 nt Nye Bevan May 2012 #48

I'd haved to agree with this Stuckinthebush May 2012 #51

There's multiple layers of privilege, and their interaction is complex and non-uniform jeff47 May 2012 #138

OK. But that doesn't speak to the magnitude or pervasiveness of various privileges. Romulox May 2012 #140

No, not being in a suit or other expensive clothes would be plenty. jeff47 May 2012 #149

I think you simply are not sensitive to class markers. Nice straight teeth, for example. Romulox May 2012 #173

I think you're not sensitive to the fact that they react that way to any black man. jeff47 May 2012 #229

Who are "they"? Hypothetical people who *just happen* to be insensitive to class markers? Romulox May 2012 #230

Well, if you were actually reading my posts in this sub-thread jeff47 May 2012 #234

Thanks for making life so easy for me, LOL just1voice May 2012 #49

may not apply in China, Burma/Myanmar, many parts of Africa and the "middle" east nt msongs May 2012 #52

The "Gay Minority Female" with a disability, progressive views, and poor might FailureToCommunicate May 2012 #56

Clever. BlueIris May 2012 #60

Another horribly poor way of talking about privilege.... MellowDem May 2012 #62

+1. And it maintains division by race. Which is very important to the PTB. HiPointDem May 2012 #100

+1 TomClash May 2012 #147

didn't say much. but the formation of a multiracial, multiethnic movement among the lower HiPointDem May 2012 #150

You bet TomClash May 2012 #155

The poster isn't focusing on three kinds of privilege. In fact, posts like this focus on only one. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #165

Those are factors, but... FreeJoe May 2012 #63

This thread Doc Holliday May 2012 #67

I wonder what percentage of the homeless is cherokeeprogressive May 2012 #68

I suspect that the correlation between homelessness and poverty Nye Bevan May 2012 #72

The road to hell hotrod0808 May 2012 #71

Not that I am concerned about your interest in my future posts, but I did not write this piece. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #124

Thanks. hotrod0808 May 2012 #210

Well, the content was clear from the title. Surely you acknowledge that there are many perspectives RadiationTherapy May 2012 #217

The easy bigotry of judging others The Second Stone May 2012 #75

I think you also have to throw in LUCK into the formula. The random number. LiberalArkie May 2012 #77

Did they omit "blonde bimbo"? FarCenter May 2012 #79

“'Gay Minority Female' setting? Hardcore." Actually, black women are more likely to be employed HiPointDem May 2012 #80

That's because minority women are "two-fers" on the AA scoring FarCenter May 2012 #86

Not all jobs have "AA scoring". In fact, relatively few do. Nor do all jobs represent a rung on the HiPointDem May 2012 #101

IIRC, it was a requirement for all companies with sales to the government FarCenter May 2012 #109

Not all companies make sales to the government, and not all people work in companies. HiPointDem May 2012 #111

Thank you for trivializing my and many others lives DFab420 May 2012 #82

You didn't have a choice of being born SWM, people do have a choice of recognizing the . uponit7771 May 2012 #205

Yep. Taverner May 2012 #83

After reading this TomClash May 2012 #87

Personnel used to run these regularly back in the '70s and '80s. FarCenter May 2012 #89

Posts like these TomClash May 2012 #99

You've never been through an HR-sponsored sensitivity training group? FarCenter May 2012 #102

I meant TomClash May 2012 #103

which is why the PTB's response to the civil rights movement came in the form it did, rather HiPointDem May 2012 #105

The OP TomClash May 2012 #123

Even more so, a mention of class invites defensiveness and hostility. It. Must. Not. Be. Discussed. Romulox May 2012 #141

not that I don't essentially agree, but cali May 2012 #104

By race asians earn more than whites 4th law of robotics May 2012 #106

Not being disabled is a privilege, beauty can be a privilege and wealth is a privilege. If you stevenleser May 2012 #131

my father was a straight white male who worked his ass off in a lumber yard so the stockholders arely staircase May 2012 #137

No. Straight white female is the lowest difficulty setting. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #144

I must really suck at this game. MrSlayer May 2012 #151

Part of the reason that you're not getting any breaks is because it's antisocial to give you one. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #153

No. MrSlayer May 2012 #157

The PTB have gotten *everyone* -- white, black, etc. -- to accept the premise that the means HiPointDem May 2012 #161

Once you internalize the idea that you're on your own, the world is easier to understand. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #163

That makes sense. MrSlayer May 2012 #169

who are "they" anyways? kwassa May 2012 #189

k&r redqueen May 2012 #158

Tunnel Vision chickypea May 2012 #160

So what about the fact that Asians earn more than whites? Nye Bevan May 2012 #167

Working Harder rather than Feeling Something is Owed?? chickypea May 2012 #170

Jesus. I would think this level of cognitive dissonance would render a person non functional. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #175

For Liberals, there sure are a Lot Of Defensive and Uptight Males. chickypea May 2012 #198

That seemed like a reasonable point to me-- I'd be curious to know how you Marr May 2012 #211

So if an Asian succeeds it is because they worked hard and if a white person succeeds it is because Kurska May 2012 #197

Smaller sample grouip.... uponit7771 May 2012 #185

Or maybe they're pissed off with some good reason. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #168

See My Post in Response to Asian Earnings. chickypea May 2012 #171

Is there any source for your racial stereotypes, or are they off-the-cuff? Romulox May 2012 #174

Yeah. Don't overexert yourself by telling us twice how lazy white men are. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #176

i think it's similar to the storyline about how lazy american workers are generally. and the HiPointDem May 2012 #214

That's why it's better to play in teams. n/t rucky May 2012 #183

Even lower difficulty than that - straight white privileged male. Initech May 2012 #186

Sounds like class/color/sex envy to me. Zax2me May 2012 #187

NAWF! whistler162 May 2012 #190

Is it because the game was originally devised and set up by straight white males? begin_within May 2012 #191

This is a useful analogy for a certain age group. For someone who didn't annabanana May 2012 #194

I won't argue with the idea that being straight, white, and male all confer advantages, however... slackmaster May 2012 #195

Prejudging the "difficulty" of someone's life based on 3 variables is moronic. Kurska May 2012 #196

Indicating there's an even apple to apples playing field is just as moronic uponit7771 May 2012 #203

Then why do they have the highest suicide rate? Marr May 2012 #206

So do you think its less impossible for non SWM? TIA uponit7771 May 2012 #208

I think it's even harder for, say, a black person to make money in this economy. Marr May 2012 #209

So do I get an 0.25x score modifier after I die because of it? LetTimmySmoke May 2012 #212

Don't hate the race or the sexual orientation, hate the game of capitalism. nt Comrade_McKenzie May 2012 #225