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panzerfaust

(2,818 posts)
43. USS Forrestal (aka USS Fireball) NOT USS Oriskiney ... Might also mention
Sat May 12, 2012, 10:44 AM
May 2012

that he crashed a plane during training in Corpus Christi. He claimed the 'engine quit' - but factcheck notes;

"McCain and others have written that the plane went down in Corpus Christi Bay when the engine quit, but Navy investigators concluded that the engine was still running when the plane hit the water, and said that the accident resulted from pilot error."
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/mccain-found-at-fault-in-1960-navy-plane-crash/

If you weren't the son of one famous admiral, and the grandson of another, that would have ended your flying career.

As he was both, McCain went on to fly another navy plane into power lines, and to crash yet a second.

Then there was the Forrestal fire.

What happened there was closely investigated, and resulted in many changes - including the relearning of previously forgotten lessons.

In the end, the - I think valid conclusion - was that no one person was responsible - just the usual unusual chain of events in any major accident.

However, McCain's actions subsequent to the accident were, speaking as a former sailor, reprehensible and clearly demonstrated his unfitness for any command.

"Whatever the circumstances of the fire’s origins, McCain did not stay on deck to help fight the blaze as the men around him did. With the firefighting crew virtually wiped out, men untrained in fighting fires had to pick up the fire hoses, rescue the wounded or frantically throw bombs and even planes over the ship’s side to prevent further tragedy. McCain left them behind and went down to the hangar-bay level, where he briefly helped crew members heave some bombs overboard. After that, he went to the pilot’s ready room and watched the fire on a television monitor ...



New York Times reporter R.W. Apple, who helicoptered out to the ship the day after the tragedy and sought out McCain as the “son and grandson of two noted admirals ...

When New York Times reporter Apple finished gathering his notes on the fire, McCain boarded a helicopter with him and flew to Saigon. Given that fires still burned on the ship and some of his fellow airmen were gravely wounded and dying, McCain’s assertion that he left the carrier for “some welcome R&R” in Saigon has a surreal air."
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081007_investigating_john_mccains_tragedy_at_sea//

McCain deserted his shipmates to their fate, he deserted his post in time of war. If there is a God of War - perhaps that is why he got to spend some hellish time as a POW.

Indeed, had any other pilot simply decided, at that moment, to - in McCain's own words leave for "some welcome R&R” in Saigon - it seems unlikely that they would not have been brought back under arrest.

Reportedly, the chain of command on Forrestal did not know McCain had left for some thirty hours - as only the most severely wounded were being evacuated.

Ask yourself, why would such a person not be court-martialled, much less be allowed to continue to fly combat?

Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that after his "welcome R&R" (taken while his shipmates still battled fires on the stricken Forrestal) McCain " ...went to London, where his father, Adm. John S. McCain Jr., was stationed as commander in chief of the United States Naval Forces in Europe ..."

Likely it did not hurt that "The investigation into the Forrestal fire was in the hands of Adm. Thomas Moorer, chief of naval operations and a close friend of McCain’s father. (Their friendship was why Moorer would personally convey the news to Adm. Jack McCain three months later that his son had been shot down in Vietnam.)

McCain is more of a disgrace to the honor of the military than Bush ever was.






Great. Fucking. Post. K&R 11 Bravo May 2012 #1
+1. OK not to serve. Not OK. . . Faygo Kid May 2012 #12
So you're implying McCain, by virtue of his service, was better than Obama? Nuclear Unicorn May 2012 #2
i think she is just calling romney an elitist La Lioness Priyanka May 2012 #3
It is the trait of the Chicken-hawk to have others serve in their place. bahrbearian May 2012 #6
You nailed it! Romney promoted the Vietnam War while living it up in France. freshwest May 2012 #7
Mc Cain nahant May 2012 #16
I'll forgive anything McCain did while at the hands of the North Vietnamese. Scuba May 2012 #18
Yep. McCain may have been a colossal fuckup as a Navy pilot hifiguy May 2012 #35
Why? Adm. Stockdale didn't. Chan790 May 2012 #49
Can you provide a reference for this? Not a challenge, a request. Scuba May 2012 #50
Stockdale? Chan790 May 2012 #51
No, McCain's behavior while a POW. Scuba May 2012 #52
I never knew that. Clearly Stockdale was one tough hifiguy May 2012 #53
I know all about Ace, SongBird or Nightingale bahrbearian May 2012 #28
I think it has something to do with the five planes he downed jmowreader May 2012 #29
I think that one of them were sitting on the flight deck behind him. bahrbearian May 2012 #30
That one, IIRC, is in addition to the five he was in when they were destroyed jmowreader May 2012 #33
Done this before, and I'll gladly do it again. Your ignorance is such that one could cut it with a cherokeeprogressive May 2012 #31
Posts that make me go hmm ya ok bahrbearian May 2012 #32
I don't care what you go. I worked on the "roof". cherokeeprogressive May 2012 #34
Thanks for your post, saving me the effort caraher May 2012 #37
I can't even begin to imagine what your experiences hifiguy May 2012 #54
Hummmm "...500 days of flight deck experience...." panzerfaust May 2012 #44
USS Forrestal not Oriskany. Hassin Bin Sober May 2012 #45
USS Forrestal (aka USS Fireball) NOT USS Oriskiney ... Might also mention panzerfaust May 2012 #43
Yeah. That was it. Exactly. It's a clear as the nose on the face of anyone ... 11 Bravo May 2012 #10
You are the owner of a finely-tuned Bullshit Detector. Ikonoklast May 2012 #14
Wasn't Obama like 5 when the Vietnam war was going? XemaSab May 2012 #13
No. Hissyspit May 2012 #17
Obama's family has veterans riverwalker May 2012 #20
Obama's grandfather served. James48 May 2012 #36
wow, that is the most non sequitur leap I've ever seen anyone take here. SemperEadem May 2012 #42
DUzy!! hifiguy May 2012 #4
agreed demtenjeep May 2012 #8
Yep! KT2000 May 2012 #15
No kidding!! Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #19
+1 treestar May 2012 #26
+1,000!! SunSeeker May 2012 #47
ROTFLMAO - You have a talent for names. Wife and I both laughing coalition_unwilling May 2012 #5
So funny! bluedeminredstate May 2012 #9
indeed ibegurpard May 2012 #11
OMG, what a douchebag--same smile and all! Thanks for the link! nt SunSeeker May 2012 #48
Interesting. Mitt forcibly assaulted a kid and gave him his version of a proper haircut riderinthestorm May 2012 #21
Great Names! CanonRay May 2012 #22
Tee-hee.Too true.Guess they all had other priorities. n/t Smarmie Doofus May 2012 #23
I don't see how that is a criticism. Vattel May 2012 #24
This relates to Mitt having held a kid down and cut his hair in prep school. Chorophyll May 2012 #41
My Dad used to say this is a "Do as I say, not as I do" n/t cr8tvlde May 2012 #25
k&r... spanone May 2012 #27
Well, I don't know what his sons' names are, liberalhistorian May 2012 #38
As for the Romneys: Meow meow! DinahMoeHum May 2012 #39
K and freaking R. Chorophyll May 2012 #40
Mitt: "My sons serve the country by getting me elected" DesertRat May 2012 #46
So true! FailureToCommunicate May 2012 #55
Well, just to set the record straight, I served with a cousin of Willard in 1974. HereSince1628 May 2012 #56
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