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When you lose vital things that are civilization markers the collapse is on lunatica May 2012 #1
In my opinion we are already in the early stages of something resembling GliderGuider May 2012 #2
Reading Orlov would definitely reinforce that point of view pscot May 2012 #8
In all fairness.. Russian history gives Russians little incentive for cheerfulness.. Fumesucker May 2012 #12
Yet the Repubs want to argue about birth control adigal May 2012 #13
Throw in the very real possibility of Fukishima getting worse dixiegrrrrl May 2012 #47
One other ominous sign (oddly enough) is the falling global birth rate. GliderGuider May 2012 #3
The birth rate in the US at least should be reflecting the aging of the baby boomers. They did not jwirr May 2012 #39
Regarding the neighbours GliderGuider May 2012 #40
We are doing that - hoping when they see what we are doing they will follow. So far they think it jwirr May 2012 #54
It's falling as women get empowered--I think it's the opposite of collapse--it's the emergence of diane in sf May 2012 #56
It probably has multiple causes in different places and times. GliderGuider May 2012 #58
Yet none of us will see major effects of the collapse in our lifetimes. cbdo2007 May 2012 #4
I sincerely doubt that it will take that long. marmar May 2012 #5
Au contraire, mon frere GliderGuider May 2012 #6
Efficiency is but a secondary effect, the primary cause is greed and profit.. Fumesucker May 2012 #14
I agree, but the motive isn't the big issue for me -the effect is. GliderGuider May 2012 #15
If you don't know first causes it's hard to change the effects.. Fumesucker May 2012 #23
One of the good things about Occupy was that it pointed out that cause. GliderGuider May 2012 #26
The Magistrate made an offhand comment to me once on DU2 Fumesucker May 2012 #28
I've given up thinking we will be able to hold back the tides of destiny GliderGuider May 2012 #30
Yes, in some ways, it's a privilege to be able to witness this period in human history. bemildred May 2012 #73
In looking for the underlying cause of greed do not underestimate fear. But I do not see greed as jwirr May 2012 #41
Humans also have a tendency to assume they are witnessing the end times.... cbdo2007 May 2012 #22
I read the article and the author asserts that cities will fare the best adigal May 2012 #16
Cities will fare better overall until the breakdown becomes severe. GliderGuider May 2012 #18
Yeah, when the infrastructure like sewage treatment and electrical grids start going..... marmar May 2012 #20
Life expectancy is declining KurtNYC May 2012 #17
Yes, those are the signals all right. GliderGuider May 2012 #21
Is EU doing anything to preserve their health care situation that would be of importance to this jwirr May 2012 #42
All of Europe has universal single-payer health care to some degree GliderGuider May 2012 #48
That is what I was afraid of. I think one big problem with a collapse and government programs is jwirr May 2012 #55
No it is not hack89 May 2012 #81
It's best not to over-aggregate things like fertility and life expectancy GliderGuider May 2012 #83
Some groups go up, some groups go down hack89 May 2012 #84
Weather isn't climate, true. GliderGuider May 2012 #86
I agree with you. sendero May 2012 #7
Totally agree but I grew up in the early 40s and did not have a lot of the modern things we have jwirr May 2012 #43
A great many people have not had that knowledge handed down. FedUpWithIt All May 2012 #82
True that. I visited an operating "pioneer village" museum a couple of years ago GliderGuider May 2012 #85
There are still really good sources of that info available FedUpWithIt All May 2012 #87
You are right - I actually began to realize that when I was in college and when I went home I jwirr May 2012 #88
I noticed. Hatchling May 2012 #9
Yep. bemildred May 2012 #10
Oh, you can be sure that the 1 percent knows damn well... RevStPatrick May 2012 #11
Inside the Vortex, life and death for the Brutals doesn't matter. leveymg May 2012 #19
Hmmmm...sounds like the Capital and the Districts... lapislzi May 2012 #25
It also sounds like the situation in medieval Europe GliderGuider May 2012 #27
I think you may be oversimplifying medieval Europe lapislzi May 2012 #29
And it was a time of fun and plunder. The Crusades and intrigues w/ Second Rome at Constantinople leveymg May 2012 #31
Hey, I'm just offering the framework. lapislzi May 2012 #36
Actually yes, thanks. GliderGuider May 2012 #32
I will read this book! lapislzi May 2012 #37
And bubonic plague created new opportunities for the survivors Lydia Leftcoast May 2012 #66
Yes! lapislzi May 2012 #72
One of the themes of the 70s: we can chose between the castle or the tribe. Unfortunately I jwirr May 2012 #45
That's what we're headed for now, with our "civilized" society. Zalatix May 2012 #46
Pls tell me Connery's outfit will not be mandatory when TSHTF big time. dixiegrrrrl May 2012 #49
Naw, we all have to wear those monkey-suits from Planet of the Apes GliderGuider May 2012 #50
That would truly be Shock and Awe - sure to send any enemy running, screaming, pleading for mercy leveymg May 2012 #52
On the other hand, collapses are the best way to get rid of bloated empires starroute May 2012 #24
An orderly collapse gets rid of the working class. Zalatix May 2012 #34
I was thinking this...where I live in upstate NY adigal May 2012 #44
Sometimes you kick, sometimes you get kicked..... marmar May 2012 #33
Well aren't you the sly one:-) GliderGuider May 2012 #38
I've been saying much the same thing for a while now... chervilant May 2012 #35
You said it better than I could today. dixiegrrrrl May 2012 #53
Thanks, chervilant May 2012 #62
Can you please re-post this as a thread so I can K&R it? Thanks!!! Zalatix May 2012 #60
I agree. When you see it all listed out like that it really drives the point home. GliderGuider May 2012 #61
Thanks! chervilant May 2012 #64
Done, and thanks! chervilant May 2012 #63
I'm going to go get drunk. Carpe diem, I say :) Seriously, though, coalition_unwilling May 2012 #65
Despair is one of the big risks of thinking deeply about these problems. GliderGuider May 2012 #68
Interestingly, chervilant May 2012 #70
I moved this comment out to the main line to make it more accessible GliderGuider May 2012 #71
I heartily concur. That honesty about facing our situation head on is coalition_unwilling May 2012 #76
Totally agree... chervilant May 2012 #69
To me it's pretty simple... WCGreen May 2012 #51
I always say that our civilization is like a rabbit shot on the run: tblue37 May 2012 #57
Kicking....this is an important read. dixiegrrrrl May 2012 #59
K&R. n/t Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #67
Can I Kick It? marmar May 2012 #74
I'm absolutely thrilled to be alive at this moment in history. GliderGuider May 2012 #75
This situation might be just more of the same for our generation(s) IDemo May 2012 #77
No question this is far bigger than the past problems we've created. GliderGuider May 2012 #80
great post paulk May 2012 #78
The American empire peaked during the sixties, MadHound May 2012 #79
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