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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:45 PM Feb 2015

The Real Problem With Bread (It's Probably Not Gluten) [View all]

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/02/bread-gluten-rising-yeast-health-problem

Considering that you can now find gluten-free everything, from Bisquick to bagels, it seems remarkable that our national obsession with the wheat protein that gives bread its elasticity is only about a decade old. Doctors have long known about a relatively rare condition called celiac disease, in which gluten damages the small intestine. But in recent years, best-selling books like Wheat Belly and Grain Brain have popularized the notion that gluten is the hidden culprit behind a host of hard-to-diagnose health problems, from indigestion to fatigue. Once you excise bread and other wheat products from your diet, the books claim, you'll be on the path to everything from top mental performance to a svelte figure....

Wheat Belly's author, cardiologist William Davis, claims that modern agricultural breeding has changed the nature of gluten, turning it toxic. He argues that wheat varieties developed in the 1960s and '70s introduced a novel protein called gliadin that has led to all manner of chronic problems, including obesity and diabetes. Yet Davis' claims have been roundly criticized by grain scientists. For that matter, there's no scientific consensus on how prevalent gluten sensitivity is, what triggers it, or even if it exists at all....

Even so, Jones doesn't buy the notion that the modern breeding he shuns is causing bad reactions to bread. "It's not wheat itself," he says, pointing to a 2013 study by the US Department of Agriculture that found "no evidence" of increasing levels of gluten in wheat over the decades. Rather, Jones believes that the true problem with bread is how we make it. In commercial bakeries, rising time has been winnowed from hours or even days down to mere minutes, thanks to fast-acting yeasts and additives. By contrast, the team in Jones' laboratory, located in a rural stretch along Puget Sound, lets dough rise for as long as 12 hours—and they've found that the longer it rises, the less potent the gluten that remains in the finished bread....

Jones' conjecture—that modern baking, not modern breeding, is responsible for the mysterious rise in gluten-related troubles—has not been proved correct. But then again, neither has any other explanation. Jones plans to continue his research, but in the meantime, with a test population of one, I conducted my own experiments with Jones' method. I had drifted away from bread in recent years; it made me feel uncomfortably full. But when I made slow-fermented whole-wheat bread with a sourdough starter from Jones' lab, I felt great—as I do when I eat loaves made by the increasing number of bakeries that use traditional methods and shun additives. No offense, but that sure beats the gluten-free menu.
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K&R stage left Feb 2015 #1
And glyphosate... Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #2
Creative speculation Major Nikon Feb 2015 #9
Eating poison is not safe, no matter how one tries to deny that Truth. Glyphosate is poison. Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #13
That's an utterly meaningless assertion using a word that has little scientific value Major Nikon Feb 2015 #32
This kind of poison... Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #36
Obviously you've never read a Round Up "can" Major Nikon Feb 2015 #47
Since it's so stupid to eat or drink pesticides, then why is it suddenly safe to eat them in our Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #48
Lots of reasons Major Nikon Feb 2015 #63
And muddy the toxic waters Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #65
Kinda like appeals to emotion and posting non-facts, no? Major Nikon Feb 2015 #76
That discussion was locked as "creative speculation." Probably should not cite it.... yellowcanine Feb 2015 #87
I didn't know Thom Hartmann was a creative speculationist. Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #106
Thom Hartmann, no, try Stephanie Seneff - have to look at the actual source. yellowcanine Feb 2015 #111
This look like a great opportunity for enterprising Ilsa Feb 2015 #3
There is a spectrum of illness. haikugal Feb 2015 #14
amen jomin41 Feb 2015 #28
Thanks, I will! haikugal Feb 2015 #50
Interesting theory, I just read Wheat Belly Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #4
Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist kristopher Feb 2015 #17
Some symptoms of gluten sensitivity aren't limited to subjective impressions. pnwmom Feb 2015 #23
That study design is bulletproof. kristopher Feb 2015 #30
Yeah, right. As bullet-proof as a pound of swiss cheese. n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #38
You're right up there with those who deny climate science... kristopher Feb 2015 #49
Thanks for your concern but I don't have GI problems, including GI bleeding, since my GI doctor -- not a science denier -- pnwmom Feb 2015 #51
You were probably given that advice on the basis... kristopher Feb 2015 #52
No, his recommendation was based on the results of three blood tests I had for gluten sensitivity, which were based pnwmom Feb 2015 #53
The research proved there is no such thing as gluten sensitivity. kristopher Feb 2015 #54
I don't have Celiac, which is a particular type of damage to the upper intestine. pnwmom Feb 2015 #56
here is one possible course of action kristopher Feb 2015 #62
What you and this study are also ignoring is that gluten sensitivity can produce pnwmom Feb 2015 #64
My sense is that... kristopher Feb 2015 #67
And my sense of your position is that you've read a few articles recently that you found convincing pnwmom Feb 2015 #68
+1 Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #70
It's not the only study Major Nikon Feb 2015 #79
I agree with you that the jury is still out pnwmom Feb 2015 #86
+1 Widget2000 Feb 2015 #73
You certainly like to cherry pick which science you think it spurious Widget2000 Feb 2015 #72
So, in your opinion, a single study involving 37 subjects that has not been repeated pnwmom Feb 2015 #74
Glad you pointed out about the healing process Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #40
Pooka Fey, unfortunately the blood tests only work if you continue to eat gluten pnwmom Feb 2015 #43
Thanks for the good advice Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #71
I have heard that French bread in France is better because of the wheat KamaAina Feb 2015 #20
According to Wheat Belly, the dwarf wheat is grown everywhere now Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #37
I use Einkorn wheat and am loving it BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #55
"modern Dwarf wheat is now completely genetically unrelated to traditional American Durham wheat." yellowcanine Feb 2015 #90
I am gluten free but not by choice LittleGirl Feb 2015 #5
With your skin issues pnwmom Feb 2015 #24
I use only sourdough methods central scrutinizer Feb 2015 #6
"Back in the day" SoCalDem Feb 2015 #7
How does that work outside coastal California? KamaAina Feb 2015 #8
Location is irrelevant to how sourdough tastes Major Nikon Feb 2015 #10
Well, then, perhaps you should come to SF and acquire some starter KamaAina Feb 2015 #11
I don't need SF starter Major Nikon Feb 2015 #25
Google "gluten free sour dough starter" Ruby the Liberal Feb 2015 #42
Not so. A culture/mother consists of two organisms (plus hundreds of irrelevant ones) AngryAmish Feb 2015 #46
If the local yeast takes over, you've got problems and better start over Major Nikon Feb 2015 #61
I used to get such terrible heartburn after carb-heavy, wheat-filled breakfasts. closeupready Feb 2015 #12
For all of you near Boston, their is Slow Rise/Nashoba Brook One_Life_To_Give Feb 2015 #15
I make my own bread... Helen Borg Feb 2015 #16
I make mine as well REP Feb 2015 #57
Gluten is a real problem for some of us and not for others. pnwmom Feb 2015 #18
I call gluten nazis "Imbeciliacs". nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2015 #19
Thanks. That tells me a lot about you. pnwmom Feb 2015 #27
Yes, you can now avoid me and my Gluten Ray that I wield. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2015 #31
Perhaps they refer to the handful who don't even suffer but over-respond to the gluten problem. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #33
Except that the slur the person used contains a pun on the word "celiac." pnwmom Feb 2015 #35
As a celiac, I thank the gods for each and every one of them Ruby the Liberal Feb 2015 #41
This Had Occurred RobinA Feb 2015 #77
Eating out is still a problem, but getting better Ruby the Liberal Feb 2015 #108
Alas... Pacifist Patriot Feb 2015 #82
that's what I like about you, Tatum TheSarcastinator Feb 2015 #94
Maybe the real problem is overconsumption, just a thought. Mosby Feb 2015 #21
An off topic question based on your avatar. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #39
Yes, me and my SO love beagles Mosby Feb 2015 #45
Of course dinner plates being the size of dinner platters have nothing to do with it. Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2015 #22
Completely unrecommended. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #26
Me, too. Thanks for speaking up. n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #29
It's the progress. DeSwiss Feb 2015 #34
I'm limited to a near grain free diet. I hate it. Glassunion Feb 2015 #44
Yeah, that describes it, LOL haikugal Feb 2015 #60
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #58
Welcome to DU, fellow cat person! KamaAina Feb 2015 #59
What are the units for measuring the potency of gluten? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #66
excellent point !! Duppers Feb 2015 #69
Excellent questions! n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #75
PPM Major Nikon Feb 2015 #78
Oh, they just meant 'concentration', then muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #80
I think there's a bit more to it Major Nikon Feb 2015 #83
Gluten is not formed by fermentation; it's a complex of proteins in the wheat muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #85
Gluten is formed by fermentation Major Nikon Feb 2015 #88
No, gluten is in the wheat; that's why it's in other wheat products, not just bread muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #89
I have no idea who Darryl Greenwood is Major Nikon Feb 2015 #92
So this new theory is that the macro structure, rather than the chemistry, is the problem muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #97
Gluten toxicity seems to be more relevant Major Nikon Feb 2015 #98
The study you posted was about celiac disease, and said the gluten was degraded muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #100
You realize this is after digestion? Major Nikon Feb 2015 #102
"degradation by lactobacilli and fungal proteases during food processing" muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #103
The part you quoted previously was after digestion Major Nikon Feb 2015 #104
Yes, gluten proteins are hydrolyzed prior to ingestion muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #105
Which is kinda the whole point of the study Major Nikon Feb 2015 #107
Most of the gluten is converted into amino acids in this fermentation muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #109
The gluten-free craze has been both a blessing and a curse for people with celiac. Pacifist Patriot Feb 2015 #81
I have a friend.. sendero Feb 2015 #84
You know, it would be interesting if all those claiming gluten intolerance KitSileya Feb 2015 #91
Fine, more for me then.... n/t PasadenaTrudy Feb 2015 #93
that's interesting, but what would be the mechanism through which breads which rise longer ND-Dem Feb 2015 #95
Several things Major Nikon Feb 2015 #99
Yes, using less extra/added gluten would do it, but so what? It would do it regardless of ND-Dem Feb 2015 #110
Just finished Wheat Belly and after having been a vegan some years back, libdem4life Feb 2015 #96
I think there's something to this. Blue_In_AK Feb 2015 #101
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