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msanthrope

(37,549 posts)

128. Agreed...most Americans do not realize that there is very little privacy

Reply to Orsino (Reply #122)

Tue Oct 28, 2014, 09:42 AM

Oct 2014

in our commercial transactions.

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IRS seizes woman's entire savings because she deposits less than $10,000 at a time [View all] kpete Oct 2014 OP

Sue them at least then they will have to show up in court... Kalidurga Oct 2014 #1

She would lose. This is what adds fuel to the tea bagger's legitimacy joeglow3 Oct 2014 #4

There are a few issues that both the left and the teabaggers agree on. Xithras Oct 2014 #10

If this story is presented without too much slant, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #13

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #116

WTF? KamaAina Oct 2014 #2

And we wonder why people do not trust the government! nt Logical Oct 2014 #3

+1. Or at least the IRS. closeupready Oct 2014 #7

And as I think about it, also banks. closeupready Oct 2014 #9

Shouldn't she be in jail too? yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #60

How in the world did you come to that conclusion? bluesbassman Oct 2014 #67

What illegal activity? Did you miss the part where she is not being accused of tax fraud? nt kelly1mm Oct 2014 #110

Imaginary Crime? ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #175

Yep! Sometimes gov. is totally out of control. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2014 #121

Institutional horseshit... TreasonousBastard Oct 2014 #5

Here is a legitimate victim of the IRS. Dawson Leery Oct 2014 #6

This sounds like far more of an 'IRS scandal' than the supposed 'scandal' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #8

Hmm... Shadowflash Oct 2014 #11

But it wasnt all cash Solomon Oct 2014 #15

It's called "structuring." Maedhros Oct 2014 #32

I've heard the threshold for cash deposits is even less . . . brush Oct 2014 #39

For cash it's $10k tammywammy Oct 2014 #44

This is for public consumption for sure . . . brush Oct 2014 #111

So just how much did she deposit???? Historic NY Oct 2014 #12

Apparently at least $33K. That is what was in the account when it was seized. stevenleser Oct 2014 #152

I've taken out 15-20k at a time with no problems... Historic NY Oct 2014 #154

That is part of it. The guidelines for banks say something along the lines that they have to know stevenleser Oct 2014 #155

Arranging your deposits to stay under reporting thresholds is a crime Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #14

Horseshit. GeorgeGist Oct 2014 #16

What part? Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #17

It's a bad law. Throd Oct 2014 #19

Got a better plan Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #21

How about the IRS not assume I am doing something illegal? Throd Oct 2014 #23

It's not avoiding taxes, it is a sign you may be Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #25

The bottom line is the IRS should have talked to the woman and shraby Oct 2014 #29

I think most agree with this Johonny Oct 2014 #38

"it is a sign you may be" True Earthling Oct 2014 #33

Yes it is- evading reporting is a crime Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #36

Banks report account totals when Income Taxes are due. What is your point with this woman's WinkyDink Oct 2014 #144

Go look up and read the laws cited in this one Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #147

Driving Is A Sign I May Be DUI ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #176

Your analogy is flawed Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #181

No It's Not ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #196

Well, there used to be things called warrants. n/t Orsino Oct 2014 #24

The other word is investigation mrdmk Oct 2014 #28

Don't need a warrant in this case. To clarify--you don't need a warrant to msanthrope Oct 2014 #45

In fewer and fewer cases, actually. Glad that has your blessings. villager Oct 2014 #55

The 4th amendment has little to do with a business transaction msanthrope Oct 2014 #57

You should hear former Federal prosecutors talk about abuses of this law.... villager Oct 2014 #102

Yeah...except you've got the law wrong. Bank records are obtained without warrant msanthrope Oct 2014 #103

Again, having heard a former Federal prosecutor talk about abuses of this law... villager Oct 2014 #106

Which former federal prosecutor? This has nothing to do with her cash flow... msanthrope Oct 2014 #108

For fuck's sake -- the one I heard in my friend's law school class! villager Oct 2014 #183

This person has a name, right? nt msanthrope Oct 2014 #187

What's your name, msanthrope? villager Oct 2014 #197

Therein lies a hit of a problem. n/t Orsino Oct 2014 #122

Agreed...most Americans do not realize that there is very little privacy msanthrope Oct 2014 #128

Here's a better plan Gormy Cuss Oct 2014 #109

Intent matters! nt Logical Oct 2014 #18

Her intent was to avoid reporting nt Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #20

I would do the same thing. Throd Oct 2014 #22

Nope! Nt Logical Oct 2014 #54

Yep! Read the story. jeff47 Oct 2014 #77

Prove it. nt Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #115

She didn't do that. She operated a small business that produced cash deposits every day. pnwmom Oct 2014 #27

Read the story Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #30

Why you should never talk to the authorities exboyfil Oct 2014 #34

Yeah, pretty much. The IRS wins this battle, but loses the war. closeupready Oct 2014 #41

Absolutely. nt msanthrope Oct 2014 #46

She didn't say she was doing it to avoid the IRS, and they have no proof that she did. pnwmom Oct 2014 #35

She said she was doing it to evade the paperwork Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #37

What paperwork? How did she even know the paperwork was an IRS issue, and not some pnwmom Oct 2014 #40

She was acting stupidly Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #47

It's not a crime because it's NOT illegal to make deposits under $10K. pnwmom Oct 2014 #53

Close... but not quite FBaggins Oct 2014 #62

No, she did not say she did it "to avoid the reporting requirement." She said she was pnwmom Oct 2014 #65

it is NOT illegal to make deposits under $10,000.00 noiretextatique Oct 2014 #58

It is illegal to do what she reportedly did FBaggins Oct 2014 #61

No, she didn't say that. The paperwork wasn't necessarily IRS paperwork. You're assuming pnwmom Oct 2014 #66

It doesn't matter how well she understood Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #69

She didn't know it was IRS-related paperwork. Not every bit of paperwork a bank does pnwmom Oct 2014 #73

You keep saying that FBaggins Oct 2014 #75

She didn't INTEND to thwart THAT specific paperwork. pnwmom Oct 2014 #76

Again... it isn't an IRS form FBaggins Oct 2014 #79

No, she didn't have to know it was a government form of any kind. pnwmom Oct 2014 #81

Sorry... nope FBaggins Oct 2014 #83

And so now her savings are confiscated and the bank owns her house twice over Scootaloo Oct 2014 #101

It isn't IRS paperwork. It's FinCEN (a different part of Treasury) FBaggins Oct 2014 #74

The paperwork is IRS Form 8300. tammywammy Oct 2014 #48

The question isn't whether you knew that, it's whether SHE knew that. n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #51

When you deposit over 10k, you are required to fill out the reporting info to the IRS. msanthrope Oct 2014 #49

Yes, YOU know that and you are right. But there is no evidence SHE understood what paperwork pnwmom Oct 2014 #56

That could be correct, and I think this is a ridiculous seizure. nt msanthrope Oct 2014 #59

Ignorance of the law is not a shield against the law. jeff47 Oct 2014 #82

It is when the law requires INTENT, as this law does. pnwmom Oct 2014 #86

And her INTENT was to avoid the reporting requirements. jeff47 Oct 2014 #89

No, it wasn't. Banks have LOTS of paperwork having nothing to do with reporting requirements. pnwmom Oct 2014 #94

The bank's paperwork doesn't have "US TREASURY" on them. jeff47 Oct 2014 #96

Who says the bank gave her a government form? Was that part of the evidence? pnwmom Oct 2014 #99

The main evidence is that she admitted to avoiding "the paperwork". jeff47 Oct 2014 #134

"Well, she said she did expect one, and structured her deposits to avoid it." pnwmom Oct 2014 #174

"The bank's paperwork doesn't have 'US TREASURY' on them." Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #131

The bank isn't supposed to warn her FBaggins Oct 2014 #87

Yeah, I'm not meaning a formal warning jeff47 Oct 2014 #91

Of course... her spin isn't particularly plausible FBaggins Oct 2014 #93

The IRS has acknowledged they shouldn't have been doing this and so they're stopping the practice. pnwmom Oct 2014 #100

You continue to assume that repetition adds credibility FBaggins Oct 2014 #114

Apparently So Do You ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #180

Really? Because I recently deposited a bit more than that (life insurance $$), and no bank official WinkyDink Oct 2014 #145

They will report to the IRS/Treasury. Call 'em and ask. nt msanthrope Oct 2014 #160

Good for them. Then why, in the OP's story, was such bank reporting not sufficient? WinkyDink Oct 2014 #188

Because the depositor was deliberately avoiding the reporting by structuring msanthrope Oct 2014 #190

Where was this proven? WinkyDink Oct 2014 #192

She said she did it. This is why, when you get a notice from the IRS, msanthrope Oct 2014 #193

It has to be cash to be reportable in this case FBaggins Oct 2014 #162

I've actually seen her restaurant. progressoid Oct 2014 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author randome Oct 2014 #124

Many self employed people who work for cash have similar problems SoCalDem Oct 2014 #63

So any small business AndreaCG Oct 2014 #64

No, that isn't what the law says at all Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #72

and how do they know how much she made in a day? Beaverhausen Oct 2014 #85

Odds are she said something to the teller Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #98

And as soon as it can be discerned that her deposits are not part of an actual crime Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #130

Put her through an intensive audit back several years Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #135

The Tea Party thanks you for their support. nt Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #137

What are you smoking? Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #138

Yes. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #139

Nothing I have said is untrue Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #142

She's running a cash business. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #149

No. Perhaps an example will help. jeff47 Oct 2014 #80

yes it's illegal, but it's not about enforcing a progressive tax system. It's about the drug war. fishwax Oct 2014 #136

this. n/t lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #140

I'm self-employed and I've never had more than $10,000 to deposit at once. Vinca Oct 2014 #26

Problem was she deposited in a US bank mikeysnot Oct 2014 #42

We are ruled by thieves and criminals. woo me with science Oct 2014 #43

This happens with bankers all the time. L0oniX Oct 2014 #50

Interesting. Arnolds Park Iowa where all my Hinders cousins live. Do not know her but she could jwirr Oct 2014 #52

She's running an all cash biz and making sub 10k deposits to avoid "paperwork" taught_me_patience Oct 2014 #68

"I almost guarantee that she's doing something shady." Wow. yellowcanine Oct 2014 #71

Odd, I thought fines and penalties were assessed after an audit. Savannahmann Oct 2014 #78

This penalty was for avoiding the reporting requirements. jeff47 Oct 2014 #84

Penalties can only be assessed upon conviction after Due Process. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #159

Not everything that is illegal is a crime. jeff47 Oct 2014 #161

"You can be fined, but you can not be sent to prison." Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #165

And that has happened. jeff47 Oct 2014 #166

"Due process is, as with a speeding ticket, before a judge." Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #169

She's entitled to it. jeff47 Oct 2014 #170

"Whether or not she did it in this situation I can not say, since the article does not say." Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #171

No, I'm actually paying attention to what all these people are asking to do next jeff47 Oct 2014 #172

So your solution is to keep abusing innocent middle class people as sacrificial lambs Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #173

Sure... but why is that relevant. This IS a crime FBaggins Oct 2014 #167

It's both. They picked the civil route. jeff47 Oct 2014 #168

I don't understand why it is a crime at all. yellowcanine Oct 2014 #70

It isn't a crime to deposit it. jeff47 Oct 2014 #88

I understand that. I still think it is a bad law. yellowcanine Oct 2014 #125

It IS a bad law. It's bureaucracy out-of-control. closeupready Oct 2014 #141

+1 nt laundry_queen Oct 2014 #189

Actually I believe if you deposit in two accounts you still have to fill out the form Marrah_G Oct 2014 #184

IRS=MAFIA scarystuffyo Oct 2014 #90

Shouldn't you be posting on a Tea Party forum Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #112

Bullshit Iamthetruth Oct 2014 #117

Until you change that, the law is the law. randome Oct 2014 #123

Blind obedience sucks. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #133

+1 Couldn't agree more! B Calm Oct 2014 #119

Big banks get to do whatever they hell they want to do. A small business owner gets her money liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #92

If only the IRS would go after criminal billionaires the way it goes after small business owners. Rex Oct 2014 #95

The IRS shouldn't have stolen her money. alarimer Oct 2014 #97

So very agreed! FiveGoodMen Oct 2014 #104

I don't know why they could not have just frozen the account HereSince1628 Oct 2014 #107

Completely agree. Except perhaps if they have a judicial warrant. closeupready Oct 2014 #143

Civil asset forfeiture laws should, at a minimum, only apply to people actually convicted of a crime Calista241 Oct 2014 #105

this is being reported in a biased way treestar Oct 2014 #113

I looked her up, and the government did in fact, file a lawsuit against her. justice1 Oct 2014 #150

I knew there was something else to the story. Thanks for looking that up. randome Oct 2014 #191

The War on Drugs continues to ruin people. B Calm Oct 2014 #118

R, D, I and Teabaggers have more in common than many realize when it comes to this shit! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2014 #120

This law may have made sense back in the day before computers, etc. yellowcanine Oct 2014 #126

Suspicions arise for more than money laundering. Maybe she was trying to avoid paying taxes. randome Oct 2014 #127

Suspicion is not probable cause. Is she living way beyond her apparent means? yellowcanine Oct 2014 #129

if she was trying to avoid paying taxes why questionseverything Oct 2014 #132

Then why include a bank at all? It isn't like she'd miss out on any meaningful interest. WinkyDink Oct 2014 #146

Because her mattresses were full? I don't know. randome Oct 2014 #156

IDGI! People pay Fed. Income Taxes ONCE A YEAR, not with every bank deposit! So HOW can it be WinkyDink Oct 2014 #148

Sales taxes? FICA taxes? randome Oct 2014 #157

Remind me please why Obama didn't clean house when he took office? Scuba Oct 2014 #151

The Bank Secrecy Act was passed in 1970 FBaggins Oct 2014 #164

No, but the violation was designed to make the IRS look abusive, a right-wing strategy. Scuba Oct 2014 #178

No it wasn't FBaggins Oct 2014 #185

Please explain how seizing this woman's assets "was designed to keep corporations .... Scuba Oct 2014 #186

Ah... then perhaps we're talking past one another FBaggins Oct 2014 #194

Outrageous! What happened to the constitutional requirement of Due Process? 3rdwaydem Oct 2014 #153

The IRS went to a judge and obtained a warrant. randome Oct 2014 #158

Due process require two things: 1. Notice 2. Opportunity to be heard 3rdwaydem Oct 2014 #177

This is nothing less than strong-arm robbery by the government. This law is an ass. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2014 #163

Where's the "probable cause"? Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #179

Has anyone said "It's Obama's Fault!" yet? Atman Oct 2014 #182

See post # 151 Beaverhausen Oct 2014 #195

Followup: I.R.S. Asset Seizure Case Is Dropped by Prosecutors PoliticAverse Dec 2014 #198