Reply #63

In the discussion thread: Abraham Lincoln WTF? [View all]

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:28 PM

rug (47,231 posts)

63. You called it nothing, not a double cheeseburger.

Most White people in the mid-nineteenth century were not president and are not lionized in the twenty-first.

This thread is not about whether you care about Lincoln's racist views. It is about why they are not more widely known or discussed,

As an aside, I will assume your use of the term "Negroes" is a mimickry of nineteenth century terms and not your own.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

126 replies	Author	Time	Post
Abraham Lincoln WTF? [View all]	Tx4obama	Apr 2012	OP
From The Debates With Douglas, Ma'am	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#1
It's hardly a handy fact readily broadcast.	rug	Apr 2012	#4
Those Debates, Sir, Are A Major Part Of Lincoln's Political Life	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#7
The debates are well-known; the racist views less-known.	rug	Apr 2012	#14
He Was Still In Advance Of Judge Douglas On The Question, Sir	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#21
He was also more advanced than Jefferson Davis but that wasn't the topic.	rug	Apr 2012	#26
Since They Are Not Hidden, Sir, Then On Your Showing There Is Nothing To Discuss	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#31
I do not call Lincoln's racism "Nothing To Discuss".	rug	Apr 2012	#34
You Can Call It A Double-Burger With Cheese, Sir, For All The Difference It Would Make To Me	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#58
You called it nothing, not a double cheeseburger.	rug	Apr 2012	#63
And Both 'Nothing' And 'Double Cheeseburger', Sir, Plug The Same Hole In Sentence Structure	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#67
No it hasn't.	rug	Apr 2012	#74
Never Found Cheese-Burgers To My Taste, Sir	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#75
You crossed mine midway through your second post.	rug	Apr 2012	#82
You seem to have difficulty following a logical argument (including, apparently, your own)...	regnaD kciN	Apr 2012	#85
They thought women voting was as likely as pigs flying, it was "accepted" that women gave up all	MADem	Apr 2012	#69
Exactly. I've known this since my American History classes in high school, if not before...	regnaD kciN	Apr 2012	#84
Pick up a book now and then	sharp_stick	Apr 2012	#9
At what grade were you or your children first taught Lincoln's racist views?	rug	Apr 2012	#20
By the standards of that time, Lincoln was not much of a racist	treestar	Apr 2012	#44
By the standards of this time, his views were racist.	rug	Apr 2012	#52
Because his views pale in significance to his actions and achievements.	Codeine	Apr 2012	#70
You're engaging in the sin of 'presentism,' i.e., judging the past by the	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#98
It was so ingrained, it was not noticed, and something like the Lincoln quotes	treestar	Apr 2012	#125
Everything is known	treestar	Apr 2012	#123
Lincoln's beliefs regarding "negroes" is well-known among	rusty fender	Apr 2012	#113
I've never met an even vaguely educated person who was unaware of	Codeine	Apr 2012	#17
How many of the vaguely educated persons you met consider "the complexities of his personal views"	rug	Apr 2012	#22
All of them.	Codeine	Apr 2012	#30
The point is that his racist views are not widely known. Why?	rug	Apr 2012	#36
But. . . they ARE widely known!	Codeine	Apr 2012	#38
We're arguing anecdotes here. Data is required.	rug	Apr 2012	#55
I learned this in high school.	Codeine	Apr 2012	#65
perhaps his virtues are far more important than his vices	hfojvt	Apr 2012	#78
Well you don't seem to need much data to form an assumption	Rex	Apr 2012	#117
Yes. The point is that they ARE widely known...	regnaD kciN	Apr 2012	#89
Christ! I hope you never find out	pscot	Apr 2012	#39
His views on race have more impact, even today, than his mother's dog.	rug	Apr 2012	#56
His views on race are really insignificant.	Codeine	Apr 2012	#73
Lincoln's views on race, which are racist, are insignificant? Really insignificant?	rug	Apr 2012	#79
Damn right, they're insignificant!	regnaD kciN	Apr 2012	#91
To a great extent they are insignificant.	whopis01	Apr 2012	#126
I agree we don't need more historical revisionism,	ZombieHorde	Apr 2012	#120
This message was self-deleted by its author	closeupready	Apr 2012	#71
Moreover, it was absolutely necessary to make such remarks to be politically violable in that race.	pnorman	Apr 2012	#47
True Enough, Sir	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#59
Should come as a shock to many Republicans though...	WhoIsNumberNone	Apr 2012	#88
I don't know why this would be surprising.	Ruby the Liberal	Apr 2012	#2
he was a Republican	NoMoreWarNow	Apr 2012	#3
He was also a vampire hunter.	randome	Apr 2012	#6
And he was known to party-on with Bill & Ted.	Iggo	Apr 2012	#16
The man did get around, didn't he?	eShirl	Apr 2012	#110
Here's the letters	alfredo	Apr 2012	#29
Which is why you should pay attention to what they DO, no matter what they say.	aquart	Apr 2012	#5
Same (O.P.) can be said of MADISON, LBJ (see thread on MADISON/his slaves by xchrom)	UTUSN	Apr 2012	#57
Did you not go to school?	sharp_stick	Apr 2012	#8
Why are you making this personal? The subject line and article is from another website	Tx4obama	Apr 2012	#10
I went to school in the '70s	Art_from_Ark	Apr 2012	#86
yep	datasuspect	Apr 2012	#121
19th century man held 19th century racial attitudes shocker	Spider Jerusalem	Apr 2012	#11
Lincoln became Lincoln.	undeterred	Apr 2012	#12
Lincoln was preoccupied with preserving The Union.	no_hypocrisy	Apr 2012	#13
He was pandering to bigoted people in the Lower Midwest.	Odin2005	Apr 2012	#15
"Were"?	HughBeaumont	Apr 2012	#27
DOH, my bad!	Odin2005	Apr 2012	#33
Hah! -n/t	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#99
actually at that time he only needed those from Southern Illinois as he was running for that Senate	dsc	Apr 2012	#28
Then, yeah, but he had the same problem in 1860 running for president.	Odin2005	Apr 2012	#37
I remember learning about this rhetoric when I was in High School and it really floored me.	aikoaiko	Apr 2012	#18
Yet he prosecuted a war that was, ultimately, about freeing black people	MannyGoldstein	Apr 2012	#19
Manny, the war became ultimately about freeing slaves (whether black or	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#100
Much like Robert Byrd. People are complex. Keep reading. nt	Snake Alchemist	Apr 2012	#23
At one point Lincoln wanted to return Blacks to Africa	deutsey	Apr 2012	#24
And the Titanic actually was a ship	Lex	Apr 2012	#25
I want to explain why I rec'd this. It made for interesting replies people might want to read.	Gregorian	Apr 2012	#32
It's hard to belive that any one with a basic knowledge of Lincoln and his history	enough	Apr 2012	#35
I know, right? LOL	Lex	Apr 2012	#41
See comment #10 n/t	Tx4obama	Apr 2012	#72
This isn't really a surprise to me. A couple years ago I read a quote by Lincoln stating that he	Proles	Apr 2012	#40
Oh for gawd sake it was 1860	alphafemale	Apr 2012	#42
Required reading	RFKHumphreyObama	Apr 2012	#43
The story here is that a large number of people	cr8tvlde	Apr 2012	#45
If this was Lincoln's personal viewpoint, then why did the South fear him being elected?	Major Hogwash	Apr 2012	#46
Because, Major, the South Was Loaded With, And Led By, Raving Nutters....	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#60
American history is really ugly; it's why most people prefer American "heritage"	Tom Ripley	Apr 2012	#48
History in general is really ugly; ours is not uniquely negative. nt	Codeine	Apr 2012	#66
Agreed(n/t)	Tom Ripley	Apr 2012	#83
Marge Simpson : "I never realized history was so filthy!"	bullwinkle428	Apr 2012	#87
Not news to me. I learned about it in the 50s	frogmarch	Apr 2012	#49
This does not surprise me. He fought the war to stop the south from leaving the union. And	jwirr	Apr 2012	#50
RE: Dead people.	jp11	Apr 2012	#51
Marx on Lincoln	Starry Messenger	Apr 2012	#53
I'm guessing that LGBT rights wouldn't draw much support in the 1850s either.	baldguy	Apr 2012	#54
...or the 1950s, for that matter.	regnaD kciN	Apr 2012	#92
Sure--he was dragged, kicking and screaming, to the place where he saw the point of emancipation.	MADem	Apr 2012	#61
Lincoln WAS NOT dragged, kicking and screaming, to emancipation. That is total and utter rubbish. He	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#103
Oh please. Put the huff-n-puff away. I am talking about his evolution over DECADES.	MADem	Apr 2012	#104
When someone uses the phrase 'kicking and screaming,' the implication is	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#106
Read past the subject line. I wasn't implying what you are suggesting at all.	MADem	Apr 2012	#108
And Jefferson had slaves and he SLEPT with them...I mean he really had SEX with them...and George	Rowdyboy	Apr 2012	#62
Lincoln also didn't free the slaves	Major Nikon	Apr 2012	#76
Very true.... I was unaware there was any controversy about that but thanks for the clarification..	Rowdyboy	Apr 2012	#90
Oh, please. That's engaging in pedantry and Jesuitical equivocation of the worst sort. The	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#105
As opposed to historical revisionism?	Major Nikon	Apr 2012	#107
Yipes. I guess it comes down to what the phrase 'freeing the slaves' actually means, hence	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#114
Sounds like we need some Drunk History in this thread...	SidDithers	Apr 2012	#64
Michael Cera's is really fantastic...	Rowdyboy	Apr 2012	#96
this is well known	JI7	Apr 2012	#68
Are we throwing Abe under the bus now too?	RetroLounge	Apr 2012	#77
And the self-righteous 'presentism' is pretty stifling too, now	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#119
Seems a lot of folk are feeling superior for having read A People's History of the United States	sadbear	Apr 2012	#80
Therefore, he was actually the bad guy, and the South should have won.	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2012	#81
Oh! I finally understand your post.	MannyGoldstein	Apr 2012	#93
Has anyone on this thread even read the full post on the link in the OP?	Tx4obama	Apr 2012	#94
What was the point of your post? nt	MannyGoldstein	Apr 2012	#95
It's the WTF part that is throwing so many off	Major Nikon	Apr 2012	#97
Yep, well it's not my fault that folks aren't clicking on the OP link to see that's the title :) n/t	Tx4obama	Apr 2012	#101
Less interesting to me than why we don't talk about which of today's ruling-class families owe	HiPointDem	Apr 2012	#102
It took me years to accept the truth of Lincoln's racism.	BlueIris	Apr 2012	#109
Read "A People's History of the United States"	quispquake	Apr 2012	#111
And Jefferson owned / raped slaves & Lincoln got STDs from hookers.	ehrnst	Apr 2012	#112
I think a better statement on poster would be -	lynne	Apr 2012	#115
Emphatic K&R for the discussion! I had my eyes opened a couple years back	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#116
I remember being taught this in highschool, in addition, his views did develop over the course of...	Humanist_Activist	Apr 2012	#118
It's how normal men are remembered as great men.	Ian_rd	Apr 2012	#122
Slavery does not equal racism	malthaussen	Apr 2012	#124

Edit History

Please login to view edit histories.