Reply #93

In the discussion thread: We don't know if Zimmerman is guilty [View all]

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 10:38 PM

93. No harm in being honest. But to say you don't believe in the presumption of

innocence raises as many questions as it lays to rest. To wit, if you do not believe in the presumption of innocence -- that the burden of proof rests with the state to prove its charges beyond a reasonable doubt and that, until it does so, the defendant is presumed to be as innocent as the driven snow before the law -- do you bow down before the authority of the state such that, when it makes an accusation, you tend to believe the accusation? In short, do you believe persons accused are guilty until they prove themselves innocent (the presumption of guilt, I guess one could call it)?

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105 replies	Author	Time	Post
We don't know if Zimmerman is guilty [View all]	Vattel	Apr 2012	OP
We also know that Zimmy was told to not follow Trayvon, but he did. At what point did it become	uppityperson	Apr 2012	#1
We don't even know that to any high degree of certainty.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#11
Was he killed at his truck? If not, then he followed Trayvon.	uppityperson	Apr 2012	#27
How do you know he continued to follow the boy?	Life Long Dem	Apr 2012	#19
timeline of events by witnesses	TorchTheWitch	Apr 2012	#37
So where was Zimmerman talking to dispatch in relation to the death?	Life Long Dem	Apr 2012	#61
Actually, he wasn't told that.	eqfan592	Apr 2012	#70
+1	Oneka	Apr 2012	#73
Does a 911 dispatcher have the legal authority to give orders to people?	Freddie Stubbs	Apr 2012	#82
In some jurisdictions, yes	obamanut2012	Apr 2012	#84
No.	ermoore	Apr 2012	#96
In MN a 911 dispatcher is a police person.	jwirr	Apr 2012	#105
I don't know the answer	shimonitanegi	Apr 2012	#98
Martin has the right to stand his ground too	HockeyMom	Apr 2012	#2
Boy, that is a good point	Cosmocat	Apr 2012	#23
+1000 for the first sentence. -1000 for the rest (which is garbage).	eqfan592	Apr 2012	#72
+1000	guitar man	Apr 2012	#38
yes	arely staircase	Apr 2012	#56
Actually, when you are in public	SATIRical	Apr 2012	#80
As a female, that is dispicable	HockeyMom	Apr 2012	#81
Actually, yes, he can	SATIRical	Apr 2012	#83
It's not legally stalking, but they can't do that	obamanut2012	Apr 2012	#86
Yes we do. Zimmerman cut him off at an impasse by Zimmerman's testimony.	vaberella	Apr 2012	#90
Where is there evidence Zimmerman did the confronting?	SATIRical	Apr 2012	#91
And we certainly don’t know who initiated the violence? Please child, Bless your heart, no one is	Vincardog	Apr 2012	#3
We do know	Politicalboi	Apr 2012	#4
No, he was NOT told to stop following Martin.	eqfan592	Apr 2012	#74
We have a pretty damned good idea.	MineralMan	Apr 2012	#5
What theories?	Vattel	Apr 2012	#9
And if you are still here as well	tkmorris	Apr 2012	#99
Why was Zimmerman outside of his car?	livetohike	Apr 2012	#6
Based on the 911 call, it seems likely he followed him because he thought he might be a burglar.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#16
Zimmerman thinks he's guilty.	randome	Apr 2012	#7
But, there is definitely enough for an arrest...	lame54	Apr 2012	#8
I agree.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#12
I think Zimmerman initiated the confrontation and tried to detain Trayvon.Which makes him the....	Logical	Apr 2012	#10
Why do you think that he tried to detain Martin? Are you guessing?	Vattel	Apr 2012	#13
Because Zimmerman, based on past things he has done, seems like a....	Logical	Apr 2012	#15
That's a pretty thin basis for your conclusion.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#17
Well, I don't either. The issue is that without witnesses we only have Zimmermans story to go on.	Logical	Apr 2012	#18
Why have you been defending him since this whole thing started? Does it do something for you?	K Gardner	Apr 2012	#14
His Vested Interest, Ma'am, Is Still Being Able To Carry a Gun In Hope Of Getting To Shoot Someone	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#21
Exactly the sort of pretending to know things that bothers me.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#25
You Act, Sir, Like You Have No Record Of Posting Here....	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#28
+1000	K Gardner	Apr 2012	#31
Lol, so you divine my gun fantasies from earlier posts.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#34
Words Are A Window To the Soul, Sir	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#43
Wow, what an incredible thing to say.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#47
Here Till Thursday, Sir: Be Sure And Try the Veal....	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#54
Juror #4 (me) voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Geeze ...call the Wambulance	L0oniX	Apr 2012	#79
I am not really defending him since for all I know he is a murderer.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#22
I think your Gig is up here, Vattel. Seriously. You can probably stop now. n/t	K Gardner	Apr 2012	#33
I know he didn't have a broken nose	obamanut2012	Apr 2012	#89
I've wondered the same thing.	Ineeda	Apr 2012	#24
Not every post anyway.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#52
In my view	Aerows	Apr 2012	#20
but	bigapple	Apr 2012	#29
But that isn't what happened	Aerows	Apr 2012	#35
ok	bigapple	Apr 2012	#40
It depends	Aerows	Apr 2012	#53
Mindset.	HooptieWagon	Apr 2012	#58
Who initiated contact and who continued it after 9/11 asked him to not to pursue?	The Straight Story	Apr 2012	#26
Damn straight	Aerows	Apr 2012	#36
this type of shit reminds me of wingnuts saying about evolution and other things	JI7	Apr 2012	#30
WHy did Zimmerman lie about the broken nose and claiming he was the one screaming help	JI7	Apr 2012	#32
How do you know his nose was not broken?	Vattel	Apr 2012	#39
lack of medical records and the video shortly after the shooting	JI7	Apr 2012	#44
Medical records,	Oneka	Apr 2012	#68
Look \at his mug shot shown in another thread. Nose looks OK, n't	RebelOne	Apr 2012	#62
I don't beleive that	Oneka	Apr 2012	#69
Please PLEASE stop responding to him. It's what he wants. n/t	K Gardner	Apr 2012	#42
Actually I find it very unpleasant.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#48
The special prosecutor must know the answer	countingbluecars	Apr 2012	#41
^^^^THIS^^^^	HangOnKids	Apr 2012	#46
I agree that this changes things.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#49
Impersonating an officer of the law ...	orpupilofnature57	Apr 2012	#77
Hopefully the Zimmerman Lynch Mob will calm down now and let the wheels of justice turn.	MNBrewer	Apr 2012	#45
There Is And Has Been No Lynch Mob, Fella	The Magistrate	Apr 2012	#50
I'm honored to have disturbed you from your constant and supercilious usage of "Sir"	MNBrewer	Apr 2012	#102
the only 'lynching' that actually has gone on, was perpetrated against an innocent kid.	got root	Apr 2012	#64
So you say.	MNBrewer	Apr 2012	#103
Like in the Casey Anthony trial ?	orpupilofnature57	Apr 2012	#78
That's your opinion, mine is different nt	Raine	Apr 2012	#51
Guilty as hell.	polly7	Apr 2012	#55
Um, the 'presumption of innocence' is an all-or-nothing	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#88
And that's exactly why I'll never be a lawyer, a judge ..... or probably	polly7	Apr 2012	#92
No harm in being honest. But to say you don't believe in the presumption of	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#93
No ........ I'm usually the last to be convinced someone is guilty of something that	polly7	Apr 2012	#94
Sorry, my rhetoric seems to have gotten the better of me tonight. Like all	coalition_unwilling	Apr 2012	#97
Np.	polly7	Apr 2012	#100
the prosecutors think they know.	spanone	Apr 2012	#57
Just saying, in all fairness. blah, blah, blah.	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#59
What if Trayvon were female instead?	HockeyMom	Apr 2012	#60
was she	bigapple	Apr 2012	#95
wrong - he stalked, confronted, and then murdered a teenager	got root	Apr 2012	#63
I see two separate issues - Whether what Zimmerman did was illegal, and whether it was wrong.	slackmaster	Apr 2012	#65
I agree with everything you said.	Vattel	Apr 2012	#67
This case is a poster child of why SYG has to go	got root	Apr 2012	#71
Who said he was?	sendero	Apr 2012	#66
You are going to be accused of defending him.	Zax2me	Apr 2012	#75
the sad thing is	shimonitanegi	Apr 2012	#76
Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed kid	BklnDem75	Apr 2012	#85
Since I'm not a potential juror, I will continue to speculate and discuss	obamanut2012	Apr 2012	#87
Sure we do.	cherokeeprogressive	Apr 2012	#101
Let me put it this way:	Triana	Apr 2012	#104

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