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TheWraith

(24,331 posts)
35. We'll take this one chunk at a time.
Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:36 PM
Apr 2012
because it eliminates the requirement that a person try every reasonable means to escape the danger other than the use of force.

Firstly, Florida's law isn't really that unusual--22 states have officially named "stand your ground" type laws, and most of the other states have similar laws that aren't named as such. Only a handful of states have the alternative, "duty to retreat" laws which say you have to run away even if you're otherwise behaving legally. It's not really that controversial of a measure, except a lot of people go out of their way to misrepresent the idea as being some kind of "Dirty Harry" situation where you can shoot anybody for any reason.

It's designed this way because laws requiring retreat are sometimes unfair to the victim: they may be physically unable to run away, or cornered, or be in a situation where they're obligated to run away from their own car or business rather than protect themselves. And even if they can, statistically speaking it's much harder and rarer to successfully defend yourself after you've tried and failed to escape. So the premise is that if you're legally able to be somewhere, and otherwise engaging in no aggressive behavior, you're not legally obligated to run instead of protecting yourself.

So long as you are in a place you have a right to be (thereby expanding the FL law beyond the usual SYG laws which apply in your home)

Actually, "stand your ground" laws never affect the home; self defense in the home is usually referred to as "castle doctrine" laws.

and you reasonably believe that you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, you are justified in the use of force.

Yes--provided that you are NOT the aggressor. For example, if someone is walking through a parking garage and they're assaulted by someone with a knife threatening to rob and rape them, then they're justified in using the force necessary to stop the assault.

If, on the other hand, a person picks fight with somebody they hate, THEN the other person comes at them with a knife, they're required by law to attempt to escape without using force, because they initiated the incident. Only if they try to run away and fail, or the other person keeps attacking after they've surrendered, do they have legal justification for using force.

In this case, even going by Zimmerman's story to the police, he initiated a confrontation by following Martin, and then did not either attempt to flee or surrender after that. So by the standards used, he would be culpable for the encounter even if Martin had a 12 inch bowie knife and was getting ready to gut him like a fresh trout.
Thanks for the info. Smilo Apr 2012 #1
I read that he can't be charged with murder in Florida, because only a grand jury can do that. pnwmom Apr 2012 #2
Not quite. First degree murder cases require grand juries in FL. TheWraith Apr 2012 #4
That makes sense -- there was no evidence of premeditation. n/t pnwmom Apr 2012 #5
Just my opinion, but I do think there was premeditation notadmblnd Apr 2012 #38
Really? Recursion Apr 2012 #47
Yes, I do. notadmblnd Apr 2012 #53
Apparently there is malice though. n/t vaberella Apr 2012 #45
With these definitions in mind, I'm not sure how they could PROVE that he gateley Apr 2012 #9
A lot depends on the evidence that we haven't seen. TheWraith Apr 2012 #15
And he was found on his stomach, I understand, and there is a possibility pnwmom Apr 2012 #17
If the entry wound were in the back lacrew Apr 2012 #36
It was something I heard that the mortician had said, I believe. pnwmom Apr 2012 #46
I going to go out on a limb here lacrew Apr 2012 #48
That's not exactly surprising to me. TheWraith Apr 2012 #51
Yes, if he was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to real prison time, I would be relieved. pnwmom Apr 2012 #16
Thanks for the education! gateley Apr 2012 #3
Nope. Florida self defense law has very specific rules about aggressors. TheWraith Apr 2012 #7
Good! I've heard some pretty jaw-dropping stories of people getting off because of that law -- gateley Apr 2012 #10
But I thought this was exactly why the SYG law is so controversial--- CenPhx Apr 2012 #29
Ok, you've cited the statute for where the shooter is the initial aggressor... CenPhx Apr 2012 #34
Correct, it only applies to a person who is NOT the aggressor. TheWraith Apr 2012 #44
We'll take this one chunk at a time. TheWraith Apr 2012 #35
Manslaughter peace frog Apr 2012 #6
Thanks for posting n/t emulatorloo Apr 2012 #8
very helpful information Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #11
Great post. Thanks. Baitball Blogger Apr 2012 #12
Very interesting. Thanks. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #13
Use of a firearm during a crime ups the ante... Sancho Apr 2012 #14
Yes, though that applies only for felonies. TheWraith Apr 2012 #18
It should be second degree murder anti-alec Apr 2012 #54
I didn't realize killing had such a limited punishment, a likely 10 to 15 years is all for Dragonfli Apr 2012 #19
The criminal justice system is always dependent on what can be proved. TheWraith Apr 2012 #20
K & R! nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #21
A former coworker... meeksgeek Apr 2012 #22
I think that is a travesty of justice. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #26
He can not be charged with murder in the first obxhead Apr 2012 #23
If its true that Trayvon was scteaming for help Solomon Apr 2012 #24
Told you. Solomon Apr 2012 #40
Third or manslaughter nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #25
I'm not sure I agree with your hypothetical example of the... SamG Apr 2012 #27
Plus, 2nd degree gives teh chance for a plea deal. Go high, plea down. nt DevonRex Apr 2012 #32
Manslaughter has several levels as well. TheWraith Apr 2012 #42
Nice work. rrneck Apr 2012 #28
Was George Zimmerman in his car/truck when he spoke to 911? riverbendviewgal Apr 2012 #30
As I understand it, he was already out of his vehicle when he was told that. TheWraith Apr 2012 #37
murder in the 2nd DevonRex Apr 2012 #31
Book'em danno usrname Apr 2012 #33
Thank-you. My first reaction was to ask that question and here you answered it. robinlynne Apr 2012 #39
manslaughter still ruins your life. Ask any of the EMT or emergency vehicle drivers pasto76 Apr 2012 #41
I highly recommend the OP. onenote Apr 2012 #43
Murder statute of the state of Florida with link steve2470 Apr 2012 #49
SP said on camera, it'd be Second Degree Murder. The video was one of those posted here yesterday. freshwest Apr 2012 #50
Thanks and I read for Murder 2 there has to be malicious intent. n/t vaberella Apr 2012 #52
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