Reply #84

In the discussion thread: Should artists be paid a living wage? [View all]

Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #77)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:07 AM

84. I would live in a world where market value should be the determinant of what an artist is paid.

Market value could be the value perceived by someone willing to hire the artist and commission a work, or the value the artist receives by selling his work to someone who wants to buy it.

While the OP is silent about who would pay a living wage, I interpreted it to mean it would be publically funded. There is no other context in which the question is arguable. The example I gave illustrates why I believe the answer is no. Many people found his "art" to be highly offensive (myself included) and would be appalled at paying anything out of public funds for it. Others would argue it's art and if public funding is available, he should receive. It's an argument I just don't want to have, so let's not go there.

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131 replies	Author	Time	Post
Should artists be paid a living wage? [View all]	Snake Alchemist	Apr 2012	OP
Out of Thomas Kinkaide's estate??	izquierdista	Apr 2012	#1
That's an interesting question	el_bryanto	Apr 2012	#2
No	hack89	Apr 2012	#3
How many great artists of various types were popular in their day?	libtodeath	Apr 2012	#11
How many more absolutely lousy artists were there that really needed a career change?	hack89	Apr 2012	#16
We can afford it. But we would rather kill people instead.	Cobalt Violet	Apr 2012	#18
Well said!	libtodeath	Apr 2012	#19
No - the money needs to go to education, heath, housing, social safety networks.	hack89	Apr 2012	#23
We can afford all that too! We're not a poor country.	Cobalt Violet	Apr 2012	#29
You contradicted yourself.	Trillo	Apr 2012	#62
By that I mean the present system of federal, state and local grants to arts groups	hack89	Apr 2012	#64
If we had a strong social safety net, we'd have more artists.	hunter	Apr 2012	#101
And if worms carried .45's the birds wouldn't fuck with them.	hack89	Apr 2012	#106
You put it in the big picture	marions ghost	Apr 2012	#113
Me too.	CAPHAVOC	Apr 2012	#25
So if I label myself an artist, the government should pay me a living wage	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#74
I don't think it right that actual artists should suffer because of a few dishonest folks like you.	Cobalt Violet	Apr 2012	#79
Of course they would	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#102
Yes. If Adolf Hitler had been paid, he might've stayed out of politics. nt	raccoon	Apr 2012	#4
Hitler might have been another Thomas Kinkade!	hunter	Apr 2012	#50
Sounds like a good idea for an alternate history! nt	raccoon	Apr 2012	#83
No	JustAnotherGen	Apr 2012	#5
I'm not sure from what this discussion stems...	vi5	Apr 2012	#6
+1	MadrasT	Apr 2012	#20
I should have also added....	vi5	Apr 2012	#48
Subsidizing sports stadiums is somewhat a transanction on an open market	JonLP24	Apr 2012	#85
No.	Daniel537	Apr 2012	#7
I think the notion that creativity needs to be sacrificed for the sake of a "job" is sad	libtodeath	Apr 2012	#8
LOL	snooper2	Apr 2012	#9
Laugh at FDR then	libtodeath	Apr 2012	#15
well put. A healthy, well-rounded society would do this.	villager	Apr 2012	#26
I think what you and possibly FDR are missing is that most people are assholes	el_bryanto	Apr 2012	#28
what should that basic amount be? nt	Snake Alchemist	Apr 2012	#59
Most people will choose to contribute by sitting in front of the television.	Codeine	Apr 2012	#81
"...let everyone pursue how best they can fill the needs and desire of society"	OneTenthofOnePercent	Apr 2012	#120
Everybody should be paid a living wage.	The Velveteen Ocelot	Apr 2012	#10
So if I've got a decent amount saved up, can I then become an "artist" so I can get the essentials	dkf	Apr 2012	#53
Yes, if they work hard to sell it.	cbdo2007	Apr 2012	#12
Most artists have 'real' jobs to supplement their meager income	closeupready	Apr 2012	#13
Personally, I would just like the economy to be healthy	NV Whino	Apr 2012	#14
Depends, who do they work for ... no?	JoePhilly	Apr 2012	#17
Actually, there are official qualifications and certifications.	rrneck	Apr 2012	#21
My father was an artist, and he held none of those classifications.	JoePhilly	Apr 2012	#66
That "something else" is at the heart of it, isnt it?	rrneck	Apr 2012	#69
This in an excellent example of why critical thinking should be taught in school...	TalkingDog	Apr 2012	#30
I visited MOMA in NYC a year or two ago with my wife... LOL!	OneTenthofOnePercent	Apr 2012	#123
Everyone should be guaranteed what they need to survive	killbotfactory	Apr 2012	#22
Yes	Cobalt Violet	Apr 2012	#24
They are in other countries and other cultures. Of course those places provide a social safety net.	TalkingDog	Apr 2012	#27
I don't see anything about a living wage in any of those links.	Snake Alchemist	Apr 2012	#88
No, because anyone can call themselves an "artist".	Nye Bevan	Apr 2012	#31
Depends on the artist's talent, training and work ethic	Freddie Stubbs	Apr 2012	#32
Every artist has to decide how much of the marketplace s/he will allow into the studio.	rrneck	Apr 2012	#33
Impractical, but we should definitely bring back NEA grants to individual artists	frazzled	Apr 2012	#34
How much should the grants be? nt	Snake Alchemist	Apr 2012	#89
Everyone should be paid a living wage.	Starry Messenger	Apr 2012	#35
Not necessarily, BUT	SoCalDem	Apr 2012	#36
Interesting question. One time,	MineralMan	Apr 2012	#37
If an artist, artisan, brick layer, dentist, hair stylist, etc. cannot support themselves with their	Opportunityknocks	Apr 2012	#38
They are part of "everyone" so I'm going with yes.	TheKentuckian	Apr 2012	#39
If they are just getting a living wage I'd say they need new representation....	Bluenorthwest	Apr 2012	#40
Most artists I know, the ones that stay with it and become successful, make a lot more money	Cleita	Apr 2012	#41
The day we do, I'm quitting my job to become an artist	Taitertots	Apr 2012	#42
fdr did and around her we still have the post office murals that were painted in the 30s..	madrchsod	Apr 2012	#43
Our post office too! I love it that we have that mural!	CTyankee	Apr 2012	#47
There was a group of painters known as the Florida Highwaymen who did paintings of	Opportunityknocks	Apr 2012	#61
Sure same as everybody else should. Artists are a special breed, I know many, mostly musicians,	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#44
Should an original poster respond to replies to a ridiculous proposition?	Lint Head	Apr 2012	#45
not when he's out looking for an obscure car part all day	Snake Alchemist	Apr 2012	#58
Why not? Look at what FDR did:	CTyankee	Apr 2012	#46
I'm not sure that "wage" is the proper measure	onenote	Apr 2012	#49
Ain't that the damn truth	guitar man	Apr 2012	#75
It worked during the Great Depression.	hunter	Apr 2012	#51
fat chance	kpete	Apr 2012	#52
Fine artists should be paid based on what their talent produces -	lynne	Apr 2012	#54
Everyone should be guaranteed the minimum needed to sustain their lives	CreekDog	Apr 2012	#55
Bingo. nt	rrneck	Apr 2012	#72
Of course ...	surrealAmerican	Apr 2012	#56
Yes, my music should be subsidized.	MrSlayer	Apr 2012	#57
I would say yes. It's kind of sad really. Artists are among the most	Proles	Apr 2012	#60
This guy did a Groupon and ended up selling about 1,000 drawings of cats!	IndyJones	Apr 2012	#63
Paid by who?	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#65
In 1987, some "artist" dropped a crucifix in a jar of urine and photograped it	badtoworse	Apr 2012	#67
So, you would live in a world where market value is the sole determinant of art?	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#77
I would live in a world where market value should be the determinant of what an artist is paid.	badtoworse	Apr 2012	#84
Your idea would mean the world would never have known the beauty of Van Gogh, as just one example.	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#91
If your art isn't good enough for you to make a living on your own,...	badtoworse	Apr 2012	#94
Was Van Gogh paid a living wage by the government?	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#103
No he wasn't. He was, thankfully, sustained by his brother who also didn't like his work.	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#104
No I got that you were trying to create a strawman	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#105
Got it, government bad, bootstraps good.	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#107
Where are you going with this?	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#109
So, are you saying you'd get rid of the NEA?	geardaddy	Apr 2012	#112
I am saying that I don't think the government should decide what is art	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#118
So, would you, if you were in gov't, advocate the closing of the NEA.	geardaddy	Apr 2012	#121
You forgot a comma	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#122
Yes, I forgot a comma.	geardaddy	Apr 2012	#124
It's not a little program. I think Adam Smith created a brilliant system that taken in whole works,	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#115
I believe in equal pay for equal work	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#117
How are you going to define equal work? It's relative.	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#126
My point exactly	aspieextrodinare	Apr 2012	#127
I think this would be an excellent topic to discuss further.	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#129
Yikes, this sounds like right-wing drivel from 1993	frazzled	Apr 2012	#130
So why don't you explain what makes it so artistic	badtoworse	Apr 2012	#131
Why is it OK to judge one person's profession and not another's?	ecstatic	Apr 2012	#68
For emplyed or self-employed artists? nt	Snake Alchemist	Apr 2012	#86
Thank you!	Cobalt Violet	Apr 2012	#111
By whom? nt	Honeycombe8	Apr 2012	#70
Yes, if they are an employee.	HooptieWagon	Apr 2012	#71
Kinkade was a "real artist"...	GReedDiamond	Apr 2012	#73
You seem like as interesting person. I have 2 questions for you, if you are willing.	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#76
Response...	GReedDiamond	Apr 2012	#92
Thanks. Did you know that The Constitution specifies the power to	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#96
I said that I support govt funding...	GReedDiamond	Apr 2012	#97
No, and I am an artist	quaker bill	Apr 2012	#78
Artists should be paid for what ever they can sell	JonLP24	Apr 2012	#80
I am an artist. Everyday, all day, I create beauty.	babydollhead	Apr 2012	#82
Fantastic stuff you have, there	IDemo	Apr 2012	#95
thank you!	babydollhead	Apr 2012	#100
Should everybody be paid a living wage?	nadinbrzezinski	Apr 2012	#87
Being an artist is a calling...	WCGreen	Apr 2012	#90
...is answered and addressed in this context I think	LanternWaste	Apr 2012	#93
Artists can claim exemption from income tax in the Rep. of Ireland	geardaddy	Apr 2012	#110
That's it right there. Thank you. n/t	Egalitarian Thug	Apr 2012	#116
Beat Plowshares into Paint Brushes?	One_Life_To_Give	Apr 2012	#98
Yes, but they are small business owners in essence.	aikoaiko	Apr 2012	#99
Artists are paid a living wage, if they choose to do commercial work.	Marr	Apr 2012	#108
My dad is an artist. His career was teaching.	hunter	Apr 2012	#128
Yes--everyone should be paid a living wage.	Puregonzo1188	Apr 2012	#114
No... by whom would they be paid?	OneTenthofOnePercent	Apr 2012	#119
Yes.	guardian	Apr 2012	#125

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