Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Michelle Rhee is smiling. [View all]Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)12. Erik Hanushek of the right-wing Hoover Institution was one of the witnesses.
<snip>
The plaintiffs called just two witnesses Eric Hanushek, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford and an expert in using economic analysis in education, and Anthony Smith, a former superintendent of the Oakland Unified School District.
Both were used to amplify testimony of other plaintiffs witnesses and to refute testimony of defense witnesses. Hanushek spent most of his time on the stand defending his belief that using value-added measures of teachers is critical for evaluating their effectiveness and supporting a recent Stanford report that showed LA Unified charter schools did a better job educating students than traditional district schools.
While plaintiffs attorney Marcellus McRae steered clear of asking about an even more recent Stanford report, a survey of all California charters that showed they performed about the same as regular public schools, a lawyer for the unions, Peder Thoreen, went right at it, only to be swatted back by objections because Hanushek said he had been out of the country when the report was released, and he was not entirely familiar with it.
That struck some of the lawyers as a bit disengenuous in that Hanusheks wife, Macke Raymond, wrote both reports.
It is a pretty outrageous statement given that it was written by his wife, Jonathan Weisglass, a lawyer for the defense, said during an afternoon recess. And it, in fact, says that for the entire state of California, that the performance of charter schools is equal to or worse than traditional public schools. Its far less favorable to charter schools than the LA study. So its really kind of odd and surprising that he was only familiar with that one.
<snip>
http://laschoolreport.com/vergara-trial-ends-objections-closings/
Why VAM is not not useful when employed in the manner that ed deformers use it, by statisticians:
http://blog.hmleague.org/asa-statement-on-using-value-added-models-for-educational-assessment/
<snip>
*VAMs are complex statistical models, and high-level statistical expertise is needed to develop the models and interpret their results.
*Estimates from VAMs should always be accompanied by measures of precision and a discussion of the assumptions and possible limitations of the model. These limitations are particularly relevant if VAMs are used for high stakes purposes.
*VAMs are generally based on standardized test scores, and do not directly measure potential teacher contributions toward other student outcomes.
*VAMs typically measure correlation, not causation:
*Effects positive or negative attributed to a teacher may actually be caused by other factors that are not captured in the model.
*Under some conditions, VAM scores and rankings can change substantially when a different model or test is used, and a thorough analysis should be undertaken to evaluate the sensitivity of estimates to different models.
<snip>
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
119 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
One of the stupidest and most amoral men in recent US history, and we adopt his system
nikto
Jun 2014
#63
How did this ever happen to the Democratic Party? That we have come to the point where
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#6
Time lo look at facts. We have a "Democratic Party" in nothing but name.
blkmusclmachine
Jun 2014
#17
Erik Hanushek of the right-wing Hoover Institution was one of the witnesses.
Starry Messenger
Jun 2014
#12
They really pulled off a big deal today. Money talks, and we know about BS
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#13
Also teachers who no longer dare to advocate for the children in their classrooms
kmlisle
Jun 2014
#101
My experiences were with administrators on issues like scheduling and curriculum
kmlisle
Jun 2014
#104
Students? Minors? Voters? Since when do they have either qualifications, evidence or standing to
ancianita
Jun 2014
#24
Indeed...how did the 13 child Plaintiffs in Brown have the qualifications, evidence, or standing for
msanthrope
Jun 2014
#75
The career teachers with years behind them of hard work also work late, love kids. are passionate.
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#29
Not true. So not true. And I have enough people jumping all over me right now....
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#33
"I can tell you have little idea what the teaching experience is like" Did you really say that?
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#48
You can see short "about me" at this link. Yes, I have good knowledge of teaching.
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#49
You got me, Android3.14. I have been fooling folks since 2002 in 80,000+ posts. lol
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#78
No, it goes to credibility only. Hard to survive 12 years without being "found out".
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#83
ALL organizations. ALL professional organizations might hide "bad" somebodies, but you don't hear
ancianita
Jun 2014
#99
Absolutely, positively right and true ALL OVER this country. The corporate meme of "the longer
ancianita
Jun 2014
#98
LIFO is a staffing formula unrelated to tenure, which is solely every principal's decision.
ancianita
Jun 2014
#47
I hope so. This is such manipulation of young people against their school system.
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#43
Thankfully, I've finally encountered another DUer who has read the actual decision! Tell us
msanthrope
Jun 2014
#76
Tenured Harvard professors who testified in Vergera against teacher tenure....
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#51
That doesn't make YOU irrelevant, MF. It means there are some people around who are in serious
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#67
"the tenured teachers made the school a stable place and focus of community" Vital.
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#55
Someday we will wake up and wonder how we lost our public education system. But by then it will be
liberal_at_heart
Jun 2014
#96
I've been retired for a year, and I can't believe how many of my former coworkers are looking into a
charmay
Jun 2014
#105
Sad. Your gov and ours in FL are virulently anti-public schools and teachers.
madfloridian
Jun 2014
#110