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Tommy_Carcetti

(43,079 posts)
74. Okay then. We're going somewhere now. So let's look at the facts.
Tue May 13, 2014, 10:38 AM
May 2014

Facts:

1. Victor Yanukovych voluntarily chose to leave Ukraine under his own power and accord. No members of the Ukrainian military forced him out at gunpoint. He was not arrested. He was not murdered. He was not given any sort of Ceausescu-esqe show trial and summarily executed. He left on his own willpower and is currently kicking it in Rostov-on-Don, Russia.

2. In the absence of a president willing to fulfill his presidential duties in Ukraine, an interim government was chosen. Note interim, because elections are scheduled to take place May 25 when a permanent government will then be installed.

3. All members of the Ukrainian interim government are elected members of parliament who were elected before the Euromaidan protests.

4. The ultranationalist party Svoboda currently holds only 8% of seats in the Ukrainian Rada. By virtue of the parliamentary system, it holds a grand total of 3 of the 21 total seats in the Ukrainian cabinet.

5. Valery Bolotov ("People's Governor of Luhansk&quot , Denis Pushilin ("People's Governor of Donetsk&quot , Vyacheslav Ponomaryov ("People's Mayor of Slovyansk&quot and other self-declared "leaders" have not been elected. By anyone.

6. Since armed militants seized government buildings and these self-declared "leaders" have emerged, there have been dozens of kidnappings, including kidnappings of journalists (for example, American video journalist Simon Ostrovsky, who was seized under Ponomaryov's authority, beaten, interrogated and held four days before being released).

7. Volodymyr Rybak, an elected city deputy in the Eastern Ukrainian city of Horlivka and an opponent of secession, was kidnapped shortly after being seen on video being harassed by a pro-separatist mob. His body was later found in a nearby river with his stomach cut open.

8. Khrakiv mayor Hennadiy Kernes, also opposed to secession, was shot and seriously wounded in late April 2014.

Your argument that there was a "bloody coup" in Kyiv just doesn't hold up to the facts. And facts also these freedom loving separatists in Eastern Ukraine aren't the beacons of democracy you wish them to be.

Look at all those terrorists!!!!!! [View all] go west young man May 2014 OP
Thanks for all of this, polly7 May 2014 #1
A little analysis.... go west young man May 2014 #11
Good analysis, except for #7 anti partisan May 2014 #15
Yeah....your probably right.... go west young man May 2014 #18
Happy, determined people hoping and praying the big guy ballyhoo May 2014 #2
I'm having trouble finding my normal stalkers... go west young man May 2014 #3
Maybe an angel whispered in their ears.... ballyhoo May 2014 #4
Absolutely perfect for the occasion! go west young man May 2014 #5
OMG, that was geat, man! I had never heard of her. What a song. I'm ballyhoo May 2014 #6
I only like the good country....the old stuff.... go west young man May 2014 #7
Another great one...Well, let's end it on a happy tune by George H and the boys... ballyhoo May 2014 #9
Awesome! go west young man May 2014 #10
And Iris Dement is one of the greatest unknown legends in American country music. go west young man May 2014 #8
Post removed Post removed May 2014 #62
What the hell does that mean? nt. polly7 May 2014 #65
Wow....just wow.. go west young man May 2014 #68
you don't have a clue what you are talking about snooper2 May 2014 #72
That is a childish pedantic video.... go west young man May 2014 #81
This message was self-deleted by its author tralala May 2014 #113
These referendums are a coup for the separatists. So to speak. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #12
The question now is what exactly the separatists as a body want. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #13
Well considering that one side.... go west young man May 2014 #14
I don't buy the angelic or evil nature argument for either side. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #17
Ok let's try this again.... go west young man May 2014 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Gravitycollapse May 2014 #23
I wrote 4:08......not 4:50.... go west young man May 2014 #25
You're actually correct on this. I will delete my former post. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #29
Also, are you really saying their helmets look like this? Gravitycollapse May 2014 #24
I won't be responding to you from here on out. go west young man May 2014 #26
For those still paying attention, the photo I posted is of a Soviet helmet, not a Nazi one. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #28
I have to just respond to this last post of yours then I'm done with you..... go west young man May 2014 #32
Here's the other side..... go west young man May 2014 #16
I don't think you want to be locked out of this thread for posting part of a hidden OP. Gravitycollapse May 2014 #19
Check my post above. go west young man May 2014 #21
And thanks for the threat. go west young man May 2014 #22
Poster has not responded in over 11 hours at this point.... go west young man May 2014 #70
As Usual, Sir, Your 'Photo Evidence' Is Nothing The Magistrate May 2014 #27
sigh .... polly7 May 2014 #30
Again, Ma'am: He Cites His Source, Strategic Culture Foundation The Magistrate May 2014 #31
Here is the correct link for the photos. polly7 May 2014 #33
I Am Often Moved To Wonder, Ma'am, If People Read What They Post The Magistrate May 2014 #35
you left off the last part of that though (again) polly7 May 2014 #38
Do You Seriously Think, Ma'am, That Trumps His Own Statement Of His Source? The Magistrate May 2014 #42
I GET how upset you are over the mention of NATO! polly7 May 2014 #43
So You Agree With These Statements, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2014 #44
The raised fist is a symbol of solidarity and defiance. NuclearDem May 2014 #34
Please go to the 4:08 mark in post 20 and tell me what you see. go west young man May 2014 #36
A gift for you....enjoy go west young man May 2014 #39
Poster has still not responded after 9 hours.... go west young man May 2014 #71
I never said there weren't fascists in Ukraine. NuclearDem May 2014 #76
I asked you to address the 4:08 mark in the video in post 20 go west young man May 2014 #77
No, I'm not going to go through the videos. NuclearDem May 2014 #78
You've made my point for me with this last post of yours. go west young man May 2014 #82
Funny how many times you've said you won't be responding to me anymore. NuclearDem May 2014 #87
I'd bet they'd settle for being autonomous regions linked to the Ukraine eridani May 2014 #37
The best part of your post.... go west young man May 2014 #40
It is all in reaction to Kyiv. I have no doubt that they would have preferred federalization several newthinking May 2014 #97
More pertinent info coming together.... go west young man May 2014 #148
Thanks for this thread. You just convinced me to write to the White House. MohRokTah May 2014 #41
If you've read through all the verifiable evidence, as laid out in go west young man May 2014 #45
Dude, there were no voter rolls. Think about that for a second. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #46
+1 n/t FSogol May 2014 #47
Careful now on calling anyone else a fool ..... polly7 May 2014 #48
And You, Ma'am, Have Indicated No Disagreement With These Statements.... The Magistrate May 2014 #49
Still not one single, tiny comment on the actual polly7 May 2014 #50
That, Ma'am, Amounts To A Yes The Magistrate May 2014 #53
No, that amounts to you deliberately mis-stating what I posted and think .... yet again. polly7 May 2014 #54
I Have Mis-Stated Nothing, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2014 #56
Yes, you definitely have! lol, and you seem to be stuck on loop or repeat. nt. polly7 May 2014 #58
Again, Ma'am, All You Do Is Demonstrate My Point The Magistrate May 2014 #60
So are you trying to say the pictures were faked? polly7 May 2014 #61
The Descriptions, Ma'am, Are Speculation And Fantasy The Magistrate May 2014 #63
My eyes work just fine, thanks. nt. polly7 May 2014 #64
It Is Not The Working Of Your Eyes Your Comments Call Into Question, Ma'am... The Magistrate May 2014 #66
Clear your cache or something ..... nt. polly7 May 2014 #67
You Cannot Wriggle Off The Point, Ma'am, No Matter How You Try The Magistrate May 2014 #69
Of course when you frame it that way. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #51
LOL. polly7 May 2014 #52
Saying "coup", "fascist" and "neo-Nazi" over and over and over again as it relates to Ukraine... Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #55
Exaaaactly. Facts ARE facts. polly7 May 2014 #57
Okay then. We're going somewhere now. So let's look at the facts. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #74
I support all of the people in those 6 videos I posted at the top.... go west young man May 2014 #59
There's no guarantee that any of those people were participating in a legitimate election. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #83
An Article Which Makes Some Interesting Points, Sir The Magistrate May 2014 #85
As you now write, and I am placing this in quotes,.... go west young man May 2014 #88
So You Are A 'False Flag' Conspiracist, Sir The Magistrate May 2014 #90
Even if we were to assume everything you claim is true.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #93
Before we were to assume.... go west young man May 2014 #95
And Again, Sir The Magistrate May 2014 #96
You miss the point: Is this poll dependable? No. Do the lines indicate there is a very real issue? newthinking May 2014 #98
You Might Find This Article Interesting, Sir The Magistrate May 2014 #103
Interesting opinion piece. What about my second question? newthinking May 2014 #105
Matters Of State Are Generally Contingent, Sir The Magistrate May 2014 #106
I just saw this. Indeed they can't kick them out because they are afraid of them newthinking May 2014 #109
I Am Far from Agreeing, Sir, That Events In The East The Magistrate May 2014 #111
We have no idea whether the people in those lines were legitimate voters. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #112
Talk about conspiracy. And a lack of knowledge. Did you know that everyone in Ukraine is eligible to newthinking May 2014 #116
So there's no voter registration in Ukraine? Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #117
You may want to check through the mainstream news sources I cited above.. go west young man May 2014 #132
If 80 percent to 90 percent ProSense May 2014 #73
Exactly, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2014 #75
Putin was against holding this vote. JackRiddler May 2014 #79
Putin also claimed his military was not involved in the Crimean annexation.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #89
So you can just make up any fantasy bullshit... JackRiddler May 2014 #118
He never "attempted to stop it." Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #119
It wasn't his to stop, see? JackRiddler May 2014 #120
Cut your bullshit. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #121
Thanks for your erudition, dad. JackRiddler May 2014 #122
Well, click your heels three times and say, "It was a coup." Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #123
If nothing else... JackRiddler May 2014 #124
Well, given that the truth is that there was no western sponsored coup.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #125
Your problem is with Yatsenyuk JackRiddler May 2014 #126
Let me get this straight: Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #127
In your imagination perhaps. JackRiddler May 2014 #129
Please understand what you are putting forward is a *conspiracy theory*. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #130
He Understands That, Sir The Magistrate May 2014 #131
I'm still waiting. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #142
He's been around. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #145
John Pilger of the Guardian UK seems to disagree with you.... go west young man May 2014 #133
Sigh. A few things: Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #139
Check posts 138 and 140 down below. go west young man May 2014 #143
This is the third time you've thrown out that red herring. The third time. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #144
Nice choice of words, actually I'm sensing it all connecting together..... go west young man May 2014 #149
So your evidence of the coup is what? Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #150
The Guardian starting to finally get it today. go west young man May 2014 #152
Are you ever going to actually answer the question? Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #153
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service MannyGoldstein May 2014 #80
Thank you for the jury results Manny... go west young man May 2014 #84
Whatever. nt darkangel218 May 2014 #86
Whatever.... go west young man May 2014 #92
This Has Never Been A Site For 'False Flag' Cranks And Truthers, Sir The Magistrate May 2014 #94
There is no "conspiracy" when Neo-Nazi leaders are in very Powerful positions in the administration newthinking May 2014 #101
Did You Read The Cited Quotes, Sir? The Magistrate May 2014 #102
Again: There are Neo-Nazi group leaders in powerful positions in Kyiv newthinking May 2014 #108
That Was, And Remains, Sir, A Specific Question The Magistrate May 2014 #110
I know about that conspracy theory as well as the flip one (Russian Provacateurs) that is out there newthinking May 2014 #114
Whether A Description Of An Event Is A Lie Or Not, Sir, Matters Very Much The Magistrate May 2014 #115
Seems some here are desperately trying to shutdown... malokvale77 May 2014 #91
Believe me.... go west young man May 2014 #100
Recommend! KoKo May 2014 #147
With all have read about this... Lady Freedom Returns May 2014 #99
One thing that nobody can deny - Neo-Nazi leaders are in very powerful positions in the administrat newthinking May 2014 #104
A lot of people.... go west young man May 2014 #107
More info coming together.... go west young man May 2014 #146
That's not freedom. 951-Riverside May 2014 #128
Well said Riverside.... go west young man May 2014 #134
I wanted to post a little more information for DU'ers who have been defending go west young man May 2014 #135
So awful:( polly7 May 2014 #137
This message was self-deleted by its author go west young man May 2014 #138
Stephen Cohen of The Nation now fully onboard. go west young man May 2014 #140
translation of the video is correct cerezha May 2014 #151
Thank you cerezha... go west young man May 2014 #154
'Russiaphobia' cerezha May 2014 #155
This message was self-deleted by its author go west young man May 2014 #136
I was expecting a Bush Family portrait. WinkyDink May 2014 #141
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