Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: A reminder...Snowden had NO ALTERNATIVE but to go to Russia. [View all]"Without Snowden, nobody would even be talking about the NSA, because we wouldn't have found out any other way. "
...reform the NSA and hold Snowden, Putin's tool, accountable for the crimes he has been charged with:
Federal prosecutors have filed a criminal complaint against Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who leaked a trove of documents about top-secret surveillance programs, and the United States has asked Hong Kong to detain him on a provisional arrest warrant, according to U.S. officials.
Snowden was charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html
Snowden was charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html
Many people who oppose NSA overreach and recognize the value of the debate also don't approve of Snowden's actions that go beyond sparking a debate about the NSA's domestic activities. In the end, a trial is required to hold him accountable.
I stand with Jimmy Carter:
Carter: Snowden's leaks 'good for Americans to know'
Susan Page
NEW YORK -- Former president Jimmy Carter defended the disclosures by fugitive NSA contractor Edward Snowden on Monday, saying revelations that U.S. intelligence agencies were collecting meta-data of Americans' phone calls and e-mails have been "probably constructive in the long run."
<...>
Does he view Snowden, now granted asylum in Russia, as a hero or a traitor?
"There's no doubt that he broke the law and that he would be susceptible, in my opinion, to prosecution if he came back here under the law," he said. "But I think it's good for Americans to know the kinds of things that have been revealed by him and others -- and that is that since 9/11 we've gone too far in intrusion on the privacy that Americans ought to enjoy as a right of citizenship."
Carter cautioned that he didn't have information about whether some of the disclosures "may have hurt our security or individuals that work in security," adding, "If I knew that, then I may feel differently." And he said Snowden shouldn't be immune from prosecution for his actions.
"I think it's inevitable that he should be prosecuted and I think he would be prosecuted" if he returned to the United States, the former president said. "But I don't think he ought to be executed as a traitor or any kind of extreme punishment like that."
- more -
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/03/24/usa-today-capital-download-jimmy-carter-edward-snowden-probably-constructive/6822425/
Susan Page
NEW YORK -- Former president Jimmy Carter defended the disclosures by fugitive NSA contractor Edward Snowden on Monday, saying revelations that U.S. intelligence agencies were collecting meta-data of Americans' phone calls and e-mails have been "probably constructive in the long run."
<...>
Does he view Snowden, now granted asylum in Russia, as a hero or a traitor?
"There's no doubt that he broke the law and that he would be susceptible, in my opinion, to prosecution if he came back here under the law," he said. "But I think it's good for Americans to know the kinds of things that have been revealed by him and others -- and that is that since 9/11 we've gone too far in intrusion on the privacy that Americans ought to enjoy as a right of citizenship."
Carter cautioned that he didn't have information about whether some of the disclosures "may have hurt our security or individuals that work in security," adding, "If I knew that, then I may feel differently." And he said Snowden shouldn't be immune from prosecution for his actions.
"I think it's inevitable that he should be prosecuted and I think he would be prosecuted" if he returned to the United States, the former president said. "But I don't think he ought to be executed as a traitor or any kind of extreme punishment like that."
- more -
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/03/24/usa-today-capital-download-jimmy-carter-edward-snowden-probably-constructive/6822425/
Bernie Sanders:
<...>
BLITZER: What about Snowden? Do you think that he committed a crime or he was simply a well-intentioned whistle-blower?
SANDERS: Well, I think what you have to look at is -- I think there is no question that he committed a crime, obviously. He violated his oath and he leaked information.
On the other hand, what you have to weigh that against is the fact that he has gone a very long way in educating the people of our country and the people of the world about the power of private agency in terms of their surveillance over people of this country, over foreign leaders, and what they are doing.
So, I think you got to weigh the two. My own belief is that I think, I would hope that the United States government could kind of negotiate some plea bargain with him, some form of clemency. I think it wouldn't be a good idea or fair to him to have to spend his entire remaining life abroad, not being able to come back to his country.
So I would hope that there's a price that he has to pay, but I hope it is not a long prison sentence or exile from his country.
BLITZER: You wouldn't give him clemency, though, and let him off scot-free?
SANDERS: No. BLITZER: All right, Senator, thanks very much for joining us.
<...>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/06/sitroom.02.html
BLITZER: What about Snowden? Do you think that he committed a crime or he was simply a well-intentioned whistle-blower?
SANDERS: Well, I think what you have to look at is -- I think there is no question that he committed a crime, obviously. He violated his oath and he leaked information.
On the other hand, what you have to weigh that against is the fact that he has gone a very long way in educating the people of our country and the people of the world about the power of private agency in terms of their surveillance over people of this country, over foreign leaders, and what they are doing.
So, I think you got to weigh the two. My own belief is that I think, I would hope that the United States government could kind of negotiate some plea bargain with him, some form of clemency. I think it wouldn't be a good idea or fair to him to have to spend his entire remaining life abroad, not being able to come back to his country.
So I would hope that there's a price that he has to pay, but I hope it is not a long prison sentence or exile from his country.
BLITZER: You wouldn't give him clemency, though, and let him off scot-free?
SANDERS: No. BLITZER: All right, Senator, thanks very much for joining us.
<...>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1401/06/sitroom.02.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024292659
I stand with anyone who recognizes that one doesn't have defend Snowden, Putin's tool, to be on the "right side of history."
Senator Blumenthal: prosecute Snowden, overhaul FISA courts.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023425884
Rep. John Lewis: "NO PRAISE FOR SNOWDEN-Reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908
What Mr. Snowden did is treason, was high crimes, and there is nothing in what we say that justifies what he did, said Richard Clarke, a former White House counter-terrorism advisor and current ABC News contributor. Whether or not this panel would have been created anyway, I dont know, but I dont think anything that Ive learned justifies the treasonous acts of Mr. Snowden.
From the beginning, it was clear that Snowden broke the law (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290). There was a point where even Snowden supporters accepted that he knew he broke the law. Snowden said it himself.
Fleeing the country and releasing state secrets did not help his case.
His actions since then have only made the situation worse.
Whistleblowers have been making that point, some in subtle ways.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550
Of course, this is dimissed because they're also critical of the NSA. It's as if some think that you can't be against NSA overreach (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023002358) unless you support Snowden.
In line with the OP question: Were you against Clarke when he went after Bush? Were you for Scooter Libby when he leaked Plame's identity?
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
120 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Snowden wouldn't have been treated like Drake. Chelsea Manning's ordeal proves that. n/t.
Ken Burch
May 2014
#2
The problem with that argument is that, if you accept surveillance in those cases,
Ken Burch
May 2014
#31
Yes, the government is capable of abusing its power. Good thing we don't have single payer, then?
Recursion
May 2014
#32
In the reality-based community, crackpot conspiracy theories don't become facts
struggle4progress
May 2014
#13
Portugal had notified Morales a day or two before his departure from Moscow that
struggle4progress
May 2014
#50
What actual evidence exists of any US involvement in that event at all?
struggle4progress
May 2014
#65
He DID have the alternative to only collect and release information about US internal surveillance.
pnwmom
May 2014
#34
He most certainly DID have one. He was either stupid, or he's everywhere he wants to be.
MADem
May 2014
#36
Yes. I have to say, the more he pipes up, the more he makes the pronouncements about
MADem
May 2014
#51
Nothing leaked about Putin is a really good point, seems everyone else has been on the list except h
uponit7771
May 2014
#92
So Snowden wasn't stuck in an airport? WOW!! This Snowden thing seems more rapped around Russia
uponit7771
May 2014
#95
Yes! Any idiot can see that a layover in Hong Kong on a flight from Hawaii to Moscow
Maedhros
May 2014
#110
Perhaps, but if he had half a brain he would have located himself in a country of his choice before
lostincalifornia
May 2014
#59
The pearl clutching over Snowden being stranded in Russia is just a distraction.
Obnoxious_One
May 2014
#61
Sowden is a dirty traitor and I wish cancer on him and any children he ever has. n/t
leeroysphitz
May 2014
#63
Snowden did NOT want to go to Russia. The US Govt forced him to remain there when they
sabrina 1
May 2014
#71
You can post all the words and links you want, but the FACT IS, Snowden WAS NOT HEADED FOR RUSSIA.
sabrina 1
May 2014
#73
Those are NOT the facts, even if he wasn't headed for Russia why the lie about being "stuck" in an
uponit7771
May 2014
#97
If he wanted to go to South America, why didn't he go there, instead of Hong Kong?
Adrahil
May 2014
#88
That has been explained over and over again. He was absolutely correct to choose a route that
sabrina 1
May 2014
#100
New taking points don't facts. Snowden was headed for SA When the US Govt forced
sabrina 1
May 2014
#117
And now to correct that erroneous statement from you. First, the US GOVT forced Snowden to REMAIN
sabrina 1
May 2014
#118
Life in Russia may be better for as long as Putin needs him to remain as a patsy.
Thinkingabout
May 2014
#84
Not if---as was reported early on--they were "on" to him and his security clearance was about to be
MADem
May 2014
#108
1. Most of the 'secrets' Snowden revealed have to do with international spying.
randome
May 2014
#89