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Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
61. Yes, but like you, I don't believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection.
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:39 PM
Apr 2014

People are born, from time, who inspire others in profound ways. I think he was one.

His name was David Koresh Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #1
wtf? backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #2
wtf indeed. I agree. As for me, I personally believe that the rabbi roguevalley Apr 2014 #98
thank you, you capture my thoughts on the man as well RedstDem Apr 2014 #205
Why wouold anybody believe that? BlueStreak Apr 2014 #206
What do their delusions of grandeur have to do with anything? nomorenomore08 Apr 2014 #56
Not funny. 840high Apr 2014 #157
Not trying to persuade you warrior1 Apr 2014 #3
Thank you for injecting some scholarship into this discussion customerserviceguy Apr 2014 #154
From Hebrew documents they theorize a date for Jesus' birth - Sept 23, 3 BC KurtNYC Apr 2014 #201
I don't think it matters. rrneck Apr 2014 #4
you're probably right and it's just day off idealism on my part backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #11
the bible teaches slavery is part of culture RainDog Apr 2014 #133
I'm Pretty Sure Of it colsohlibgal Apr 2014 #5
Did Jesus exist? Jim__ Apr 2014 #6
it just comforts me to think backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #16
Try Confucius. Lot of evidence that he existed. PassingFair Apr 2014 #74
Bart says that he's agnostic. El Supremo Apr 2014 #76
Yes, I've read a few of Ehrman's books, and I've never LuvNewcastle Apr 2014 #112
And yet that is all there is for an historical jesus: arguments. ZERO contemporary EVIDENCE exists. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #117
Maybe this will help tazkcmo Apr 2014 #7
An entertaining read, like all of Chris Moore's books FiveGoodMen Apr 2014 #53
The Jesus of the Gospels was probably a Jewish rabbi at the time. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #8
The christian religion is just a copy of many other older religions! B Calm Apr 2014 #9
I put a more stock in him existing than Moses (nt) The Straight Story Apr 2014 #10
I would guess backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #12
The Pentateuch is a nationalistic creation myth, like the Aeneid. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #15
Moses edhopper Apr 2014 #109
But a good tale we tell every year. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #120
Well that depends on the moral of the fable edhopper Apr 2014 #123
Alas that depends on the Jew nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #125
No Moses did not exist. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #119
Who knows edhopper Apr 2014 #124
Among people who study this as an academic pursuit, not a religious one, they nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #132
I think we are in agreement that edhopper Apr 2014 #134
The son of god is an article of faith nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #137
Probably more info than I needed edhopper Apr 2014 #143
I have been fascinated with the historicity of bible stories for a long time nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #147
Well edhopper Apr 2014 #153
You've inspired me to get out my "Asimov's Guide to the Bible" eShirl Apr 2014 #186
Good, there are newer reads on this nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #187
The new covenant Calista241 Apr 2014 #162
And he was not alone. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #183
I sorta think there was tularetom Apr 2014 #13
No FarCenter Apr 2014 #14
Hard to say ... 1000words Apr 2014 #17
Except there are mentions. former9thward Apr 2014 #81
I was referring to public records/administrative logs 1000words Apr 2014 #83
Yes but very little of that exists. former9thward Apr 2014 #91
But that's the point; the greatest dude in history doesn't get a mention until a century after death Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #103
It was not a century. former9thward Apr 2014 #114
Most believers could care less about the total lack of evidence to support the idea. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #118
Name a historian of the period who rejects an historical Jesus. former9thward Apr 2014 #146
"No serious scholar of the period disputes his existence." tabasco Apr 2014 #142
Then of course you will point to one. former9thward Apr 2014 #144
i see you have not been exposed to myth scholars tiny elvis Apr 2014 #195
I was asking for serious historians. former9thward Apr 2014 #196
i begin to see what serious means tiny elvis Apr 2014 #197
Historians believe there was a historic Jesus nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #18
there are reports of his brother, James. There are also tales of his family being roguevalley Apr 2014 #99
And he married. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #121
I agree, Nadin. Did you hear about the Jesus wife parchment? It is ruled authentic. :D roguevalley Apr 2014 #136
I love the ideas nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #138
He also got in trouble all the time for pissing on the carpet snooper2 Apr 2014 #210
I've always held that he didn't "exist" as an individual... Wounded Bear Apr 2014 #19
very likely true backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #24
I do believe there was a historical Jesus, Blue_In_AK Apr 2014 #20
It is quite likely, though he may or may not have not much resembled the gospels cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #21
Jesus almost certainly existed....in some form theboss Apr 2014 #22
I think John the Baptist and Jesus might have been the same person. LuvNewcastle Apr 2014 #113
There was a Roman historian, named Josephus, who lived at the time of Jesus, and had written about Cal33 Apr 2014 #23
He was not a contemporary, he made only two references, and they are disputed... Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #105
No. Within the past ten years, I abandoned my belief in the historical figure. John1956PA Apr 2014 #25
perhaps. read "When God Was A Woman" by Merlin Stone Scout Apr 2014 #26
An idiot savant maybe, no virgin birth. Power hungry men wrote the bible larkrake Apr 2014 #27
Yes. I believe in him. And he was one good egg. And made the world a much better place. applegrove Apr 2014 #28
Well put. I believe in Him too. calimary Apr 2014 #165
I believe he walked the earth. I don't believe applegrove Apr 2014 #169
Yes. But, in those times, he wasn't particularly unique. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #29
that is my take backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #33
And, ironically, was spread by the very people who crucified him. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #36
Reading this right now... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #30
A good read rickford66 Apr 2014 #58
Karen Armstrong's books are also worth reading ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #78
Mirtha of the older Pagan religion had a virgin birth too. B Calm Apr 2014 #31
What part of backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #35
Mithras was born okasha Apr 2014 #198
I'm a non believer, but I do believe there was a man named Jesus 2pooped2pop Apr 2014 #32
The life advice of a man that's so delusional mathematic Apr 2014 #34
but what if backwoodsbob Apr 2014 #37
What justification is there to disregard those statements of his? mathematic Apr 2014 #41
Jesus also referred to himself as "The Son of Man". CJCRANE Apr 2014 #49
Not in any interesting way. The Jesus of myth is just, that and no more real than Santa. Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #38
There may have been a person or persons on who the Biblical Jesus was based upon sakabatou Apr 2014 #39
I believe that "Jesus" is a composite... ananda Apr 2014 #40
Probably... cbdo2007 Apr 2014 #42
Meh... Wounded Bear Apr 2014 #54
Nope. countryjake Apr 2014 #43
There was! Roman records mentioned him. AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #44
Which Roman records edhopper Apr 2014 #111
Believe it or not.... yuiyoshida Apr 2014 #45
almost certainly, although I doubt it was based on just one person LadyHawkAZ Apr 2014 #46
No. Clearly based off old myths. Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #47
No. XRubicon Apr 2014 #48
Evidence of a real Jesus is the last thing most people want. CJCRANE Apr 2014 #50
Nonsense. A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #55
Jesus never mentioned Original Sin. Jesus and Christianity are two different things. CJCRANE Apr 2014 #57
First of all, those "other religions" are merely different versions of the same product..... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #60
I think it would be interesting to find out if Jesus was a real person. CJCRANE Apr 2014 #63
Actually you are right and wrong at the same time nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #148
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #51
Could have been a great man who people loved. Maybe, when he was killed by the Romans, the common Lint Head Apr 2014 #52
Nope. Iggo Apr 2014 #59
Yes, but like you, I don't believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection. Shrike47 Apr 2014 #61
If one believes Exposethefrauds Apr 2014 #62
Yes. n/t Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #64
Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth is pretty interesting read on the historical Jesus arely staircase Apr 2014 #65
Agree 100% deutsey Apr 2014 #66
Yes, I believe there was a historical Jesus deutsey Apr 2014 #67
Excellent Frontline on this very subject Exposethefrauds Apr 2014 #68
Thanks, that looks interesting. Bookmarked for later viewing. nt CJCRANE Apr 2014 #71
No. I believe early Christianity was a "Mystery Cult" typical of the era Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #69
"Most modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed...." Nye Bevan Apr 2014 #70
If you look at the footnotes of that wikipedia link, you will see that in actuality Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #77
I have read that Wikipedia account. I am glad you posted it, but I disagree with it. John1956PA Apr 2014 #86
probably a blending of more than one eShirl Apr 2014 #72
Gandhi existed. And, leaving out the virgin birth, walking on water, cheating death, etc, Squinch Apr 2014 #73
Gandhi....nt PassingFair Apr 2014 #82
Thank you. Correcting! Squinch Apr 2014 #85
+1 Dawson Leery Apr 2014 #152
So believe it... sarisataka Apr 2014 #75
zeitgeist the movie might explain a few things FranMonet Apr 2014 #79
+1 Common Sense B Calm Apr 2014 #93
no. n/t wildbilln864 Apr 2014 #80
Yes I believe in Jesus and in his resurrection. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #84
I was raised Epicopalian too..... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #89
I love and respect him. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #92
yes I do believe he existed Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #87
You couldn't be more wrong. There is almost no documentation that Jesus existed, Raksha Apr 2014 #213
If he was not God, the question of his existence is much less interesting. rug Apr 2014 #88
Probably not. HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #90
Yes I believe Jesus lived.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #94
Thank you... RedRoses323 Apr 2014 #106
It really makes a person hopeful Peacetrain Apr 2014 #191
Absolutely RedRoses323 Apr 2014 #199
Like these! The message of Jesus is a Universal Truth. calimary Apr 2014 #174
Universal Truth? The natural laws of the universe are the only UNIVERSAL TRUTHS. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #188
The laws of nature do not address love of another being.. Peacetrain Apr 2014 #189
A being that exists outside the natural laws of the universe? cleanhippie Apr 2014 #192
As you stated this is "OUR" community space Peacetrain Apr 2014 #193
Which is fine and dandy, but have nothing to do with the objections you raised. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #194
Objections to what? Peacetrain Apr 2014 #200
Oh, yeah, it's me thats the confused one here. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #209
Happy Easter Peacetrain Apr 2014 #190
Of course there was. But his message was corrupted beyond recognition by Paul & Peter baldguy Apr 2014 #95
My opinion on the matter. ZX86 Apr 2014 #96
Why not? The Buddha and Mohammed existed. WinkyDink Apr 2014 #97
For your wishes expressed in the OP: muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #100
Yes. Petrushka Apr 2014 #101
Read Bart Ehrman's books. He is an agnostic scholar of all the texts. mmonk Apr 2014 #102
Kenneth Humphreys presents a strong rebuttal to Ehrman. John1956PA Apr 2014 #116
I tend to agree with Ehrman based on other non-Christian scholars I've also read. mmonk Apr 2014 #180
I would question Humphrey's claim that Ehrman engages in mmonk Apr 2014 #182
The Jesus of the Gospels? - nope intaglio Apr 2014 #104
It never ceases to amaze me tavernier Apr 2014 #107
I thought that the OP is timely otherone Apr 2014 #127
Thank you for pointing out tavernier Apr 2014 #140
Have a great holiday tavernier! otherone Apr 2014 #179
Well lucky for you I denigrate all religions. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #141
I'm neither poor nor persecuted, tavernier Apr 2014 #145
Can I be Magneto? Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #155
Sure, if you think you're up to it tavernier Apr 2014 #161
Um Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #163
I don't believe you have the flexible substrates tavernier Apr 2014 #164
Sorry. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #167
A noble gesture. N/T tavernier Apr 2014 #168
Hapy Easter. 840high Apr 2014 #159
Have a blessed Easter nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #160
I do believe he lived.. RedRoses323 Apr 2014 #108
Perhaps. 99Forever Apr 2014 #110
Jerimiah Johnson..... Bigmack Apr 2014 #115
Yes fadedrose Apr 2014 #122
Yes otherone Apr 2014 #126
I think there were two main real historical humans and then a handful of myths Exultant Democracy Apr 2014 #128
Well, the fact that he may or may not have existed doesn't seem to matter as much as... Tikki Apr 2014 #129
Hell no. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #130
I don't care RainDog Apr 2014 #131
I do believe that there was a person who said the things that the New Testament merrily Apr 2014 #135
Too many people here are doing what they blame conservatives for doing... brooklynite Apr 2014 #139
First, what muriel_volestrangler said. Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2014 #149
Possibly multiple historical figures. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #150
I know Ted Cruz thinks he is the Messiah lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #151
I believe Jesus was 840high Apr 2014 #156
I don't know why Christians think Jesus is coming back. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #158
Probably. Probably was a Hercules, too. DirkGently Apr 2014 #166
It was a slave religion that was used by rulers of a slave economy to keep their slaves in line. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #170
i believe. mia Apr 2014 #171
Echoing those who cite Prof. Ehrman BlueCheese Apr 2014 #172
"-- who would want to say that their messiah was squashed so easily?)" mia Apr 2014 #173
Marvin Meyer thinks he was a "Wisdom Teacher" leftyladyfrommo Apr 2014 #208
I don't. ladyVet Apr 2014 #175
No - Manufactured By Man To Control The Sheeple cantbeserious Apr 2014 #176
There was likely a man or group of men who came up with the idea Warpy Apr 2014 #177
Yes and no LostOne4Ever Apr 2014 #178
nope. n/t Feral Child Apr 2014 #181
That's pretty much how I see it, too, Bob. GoCubsGo Apr 2014 #184
The truth is that HISTORY contains the word 'story' johnlucas Apr 2014 #185
yes, I believe he was real, walked among others RedstDem Apr 2014 #202
My belief. bigendian Apr 2014 #203
Yes I do. nt el_bryanto Apr 2014 #204
a surprising number of "no"s on this thread -- Wow. KurtNYC Apr 2014 #207
Lol. And I'm just as surprised by the number of people Solomon Apr 2014 #215
Nero. Pliny the Younger. The writings of Josephus. The Babylonian Talmud. Lucian. KurtNYC Apr 2014 #216
For background read this into Reb Akiba nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #211
No. I think there were some wandering preachers at the time, but no one historical figure. raccoon Apr 2014 #212
K & R - this looks like a really good discussion, and I wish I'd gotten involved in it sooner, Raksha Apr 2014 #214
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