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In reply to the discussion: Birthers want proof that Mitt Romney was born in America! [View all]fishwax
(29,148 posts)105. none of that provides any evidence whatsoever that natural born means *only* jus soli
The argument that "natural born" must not include jus sanguinis because the clause doesn't mention jus sanguinis would carry more weight if it weren't also equally true that the clause also doesn't mention jus soli. The established understanding of "natural born (subject)" at the time and place the constitution was drafted included both jus sanguinis and jus soli. Nothing in the constitution or in any law passed since suggests that the natural born clause intends something different from that. So absent any evidence to the contrary, I think the argument that "natural born citizen" obviously excludes jus sanguinis is not compelling.
The Act of 1790 is the only use of the term "natural born" in legislation. It is often cited to support framers intent to include jus sanguinis in their definition of natural born. What that argument fails to account for is the impact of the Act of 1795 which explicitly repeals the one of 1790 and uses only the term citizen, not natural born citizen.
If one believes as I do that natural born is acquired only by birth in the US and that the act if 1790 was ill formed, whether deliberately or by accident, then such error was corrected at the earliest opportunity in 1795 and not repeated since.
If one believes as I do that natural born is acquired only by birth in the US and that the act if 1790 was ill formed, whether deliberately or by accident, then such error was corrected at the earliest opportunity in 1795 and not repeated since.
The act of 1795 revokes the act of 1790 because it makes significant changes to the naturalization process. (Again, by definition, naturalization confers citizenship to those who did not have citizenship at birth.) It does not specifically address the issue of natural born citizenship. Affirming that they are citizens does not suggest that they cannot also be natural born citizens. If they had wanted to correct that, it would have been very simple to do so. (And could have been done before 1795.) They didn't then, and never have since. Not when the act of 1795 was revoked in 1798 or when the 1798 act was revoked in 1802.
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Okay then, here's what birthers believe, all their talking points. This is proof!
freshwest
Mar 2012
#54
If nothing else, it will have the effect of exposing Rmoney's odd family history.
Old and In the Way
Mar 2012
#8
I think its about time to get rid of this rule alltogether, rather than suspect anyone and everyone
LisaL
Mar 2012
#10
I don't think it's a silly rule. What's silly are people too stupid or stubborn
kestrel91316
Mar 2012
#18
And the Constitution refers to the birthplace of the person running for office, not their parents.
freshwest
Mar 2012
#61
Obama also has family here going back generations. Santorum's father, like Obama's, was born abroad.
fishwax
Mar 2012
#47
well, I don't agree that being a natural born citizen requires being born IN the United States
fishwax
Mar 2012
#89
the constitution in 1787 simply said "natural born citizen," and didn't distinguish between
fishwax
Mar 2012
#92
none of that provides any evidence whatsoever that natural born means *only* jus soli
fishwax
Mar 2012
#105
They don't believe Obama was born in the USA. They believe he was born in Kenya.
juajen
Mar 2012
#53
John McCain was born on a naval base. I believe that's considered American soil. n/t
RZM
Mar 2012
#69
That whole thing about Romney's Great-grandfather is going to be fun during the campaign!!
progressoid
Mar 2012
#40
I'd be much more interested in seeing his tax returns for the past decade or so
NICO9000
Mar 2012
#43
Well, his deddy was called "Chihuahua George" and not because he was small or yippy.
MADem
Mar 2012
#50