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Actually, the pragmatists knew that if Obama supported marriage equality before the 2008 election JoePhilly Apr 2014 #1
Do you consider Hillary a "pragmatist"? n/t Fumesucker Apr 2014 #2
I believe Pragmatists think that ripping apart Hillary Clinton and dragging... Walk away Apr 2014 #82
In what way did I voice any opinion of Hillary Clinton? Fumesucker Apr 2014 #115
I'm sorry that you didn't understand that I was using a collective "you"... Walk away Apr 2014 #116
I appreciate your sorrow over my intellectual shortcomings Fumesucker Apr 2014 #117
I didn't mean it facetiously. Perhaps I was wrong and you... Walk away Apr 2014 #119
Obama could have come out as gay in 2008 and won Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #5
Your first claim you have no evidence to back up Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #8
Here, I'll help you out with a football analogy Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #10
Nor does your claim. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #14
You are putting words in my mouth Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #21
I never had a moment's doubt that invading Iraq was a bad idea yardwork Apr 2014 #80
correlation isn't causation dsc Apr 2014 #87
political currents changed dramatically over time. Pretending otherwise is dishonest. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #101
Those that claim they are pragmatic are really saying they love the status quo which is killing rhett o rick Apr 2014 #22
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Scuba Apr 2014 #64
That a pretty irresponsibly idealistic view of the world. Walk away Apr 2014 #84
You lost me at "irresponsibly". nm rhett o rick Apr 2014 #86
I'm not surprised. Walk away Apr 2014 #95
People who called themselves pragmatists were sure Obama could not support marriage Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #24
Obama is a pragmatist, right? JoePhilly Apr 2014 #39
And the change in policy in 2012 was way more the result of an bullwinkle428 Apr 2014 #44
No it wasn't Sgent Apr 2014 #50
And political currents have changed. And you darned well know it. Opposition collapsed. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #102
Those whose principles change AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #109
You have proven the OP correct AgingAmerican Apr 2014 #108
When team wins - it's due to pragmatism Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Apr 2014 #4
It's always the idealists who stay home Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Apr 2014 #9
... Fumesucker Apr 2014 #13
Here ... I'll help you ... with a Football anaolgy. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Apr 2014 #11
Not all of them. But certainly some are. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #16
The idealists fight for life, liberty and freedoms. The pragmatists groveled before George Bush rhett o rick Apr 2014 #25
Obama .. the pragmatist ... just got 10 million people ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #29
How do you know that we would have gotten nothing? With your thinking we still would be a colony of rhett o rick Apr 2014 #32
You're on the sideline right now. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #36
I am on the field trying for a touchdown, it's you on the sideline content with a 20 point rhett o rick Apr 2014 #38
no on claimed that. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #40
and this is where one "team's" argument breaks down to its constituent parts bobduca Apr 2014 #47
Isnt the definition of pragmatism, "sitting in the stands"? My complaint isnt with the yardage rhett o rick Apr 2014 #110
They are on the sideline with PomPoms fascisthunter Apr 2014 #103
7 million out of 50 million, at a cost of a half trillion dollar per year giveaway to big insurance Doctor_J Apr 2014 #41
How many you helping? JoePhilly Apr 2014 #42
And the insurance companies still call the shots. zeemike Apr 2014 #51
Where are you getting 1O million? I saw 7 million earlier today. Autumn Apr 2014 #54
medicare expansion and state exchanges JoePhilly Apr 2014 #56
Um, bullshit Downtown Hound Apr 2014 #61
Dems had a super majority for about 72 days, not 2 years. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #65
When the defense is playing to stop your ground game it is a perfect time to throw the bomb. Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #43
The Pragmatic President just got about 10 million people, health care. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #66
I'm glad he got the ACA. I spend much of my day defending it against actual people Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #68
Ok, let's work through something here ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #69
Here's the continuum. The way I read it is they think we went too far, Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #70
Absolutely ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #73
good post you Eagles fan! treestar Apr 2014 #63
I can't figure out ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #71
I am utter, humble awe of the ass-kicking 4th and 26 you have been on this thread. msanthrope Apr 2014 #74
I grew up playing football ... JoePhilly Apr 2014 #75
labeling someone who works in accordance with deeply held convictions as an idealist is convenient.. LanternWaste Apr 2014 #88
It's absurd to keep pretending that Third Way Democrats have the same goals woo me with science Apr 2014 #12
You say that like it's a bad thing? Fumesucker Apr 2014 #18
Interesting food for thought. Zorra Apr 2014 #20
Heh. Well said. woo me with science Apr 2014 #45
I offer a different view. We live in a society that is heavily authoritarian influenced. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #78
+100000 And the pressure and propaganda to that end are constant. woo me with science Apr 2014 #107
The moment you start thinking for yourself you become an enemy of society Fumesucker Apr 2014 #121
It's absurd to keep pretending that the Third Way Democrats are on DU. jeff47 Apr 2014 #48
"Micro steps." " a series of small steps to reach the goal" woo me with science Apr 2014 #52
A microstep is "Don't ask, don't tell". jeff47 Apr 2014 #53
Absolutely correct. zeemike Apr 2014 #55
This! Oilwellian Apr 2014 #111
I think you are giving The Team way too much credit. Let's use indefinite detention as rhett o rick Apr 2014 #77
Your example is perfect to show what I'm talking about. jeff47 Apr 2014 #89
You seem to be trying to rationalize what I am saying. My point is that one side does not rhett o rick Apr 2014 #91
Third Way Democrats are re-branded Republicans. Corp leaders arent stupid. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #76
It's absurd to think that Ideologues can have a reasonable discussion. There are so many DU'ers KittyWampus Apr 2014 #104
163. Here goes. Zorra Apr 2014 #15
A great post from a great DUer.... Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #28
Thank you, very much, for posting that. Luminous Animal Apr 2014 #34
EPIC! Rack it! Great post. Ed Suspicious Apr 2014 #49
Oh God. Thank you for posting that. I had that bookmarked Autumn Apr 2014 #57
That was amazing Oilwellian Apr 2014 #114
Pragmatist here gwheezie Apr 2014 #17
The "pragmatists" aren't very pragmatic Doctor_J Apr 2014 #19
I would love to see the list of pragmatic DUers who you base this on. Walk away Apr 2014 #85
I don't care whether they believe in these things or not Doctor_J Apr 2014 #99
I ask the President not to make thoses cuts... Walk away Apr 2014 #105
They were preparing defenses for the NSA and drones. Looking "forward" donchya know? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #23
Being a "pragmatist" ProSense Apr 2014 #26
Believe me, DU was radically opposed to the Iraq war. Skidmore Apr 2014 #27
I was lurking then, the site was much more left leaning in those days Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #30
I wasnt around here back then but I find it hard to believe there were many supporting the iraq war DCBob Apr 2014 #31
Look at the "pragmatic" politicians who supported it Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #33
I wouldnt call them pragmatists.. those are conservative Democrats.. DCBob Apr 2014 #35
There is a reason I have been putting the word "pragmatist" in quotes in this thread Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #37
Self-described, typically. Pholus Apr 2014 #58
I was here and couldn't believe Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2014 #67
Third Way Democrats = Republican-lite blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #46
Self-described "pragmatists" are often just sports fans. Marr Apr 2014 #59
it's like "Biblical literalist": just something to brandish, nothing to do with *reading* the text MisterP Apr 2014 #60
False Frame treestar Apr 2014 #62
You appear to be saying that pragmatists are rare in American politics Fumesucker Apr 2014 #72
If Clinton-Sachs isnt a pragmatist maybe she is an opportunist. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #81
I thought you were aiming at DUers treestar Apr 2014 #90
It was pragmatic to support the war. What other excuse could Clinton-Sachs have? rhett o rick Apr 2014 #79
Were they being pragmatic or thinking it was the right thing to do? treestar Apr 2014 #92
I cant believe we still need to justify not supporting the I-War. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #93
No I do not, quit misrepresenting just to argue treestar Apr 2014 #94
I appreciate the question and will be glad to answer it, however, we are discussing something rhett o rick Apr 2014 #96
You might have a point if there were many (any) DUers who supported the IWR or opposed gay marriage DanTex Apr 2014 #83
See post # 15, link for you below Zorra Apr 2014 #97
I'll check it out, but first, thanks for linking. DanTex Apr 2014 #106
The don't seem to notice what our JoePhilly Apr 2014 #113
The prevailing headwinds against gay marriage finally abated. Hence, such dramatic forward progress. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #98
Is that what they call leading from behind? Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #100
No, we've had to cut through that type of horseshit every single day to force the issue Zorra Apr 2014 #112
Pragmatist here, and I was against the Iraq war stevenleser Apr 2014 #118
One thing about people who call themselves "pragmatists" or... bvar22 Apr 2014 #120
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