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seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
51. Or kidnapped and forced. Or dominated and controlled. We can't make it simple cause it is not.
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 03:57 PM
Nov 2013

That would be the difference between pro porn and liberalism

Ok...I think I got all the typos renie408 Nov 2013 #1
While dodging your original and interesting question, let me just say this... Democracyinkind Nov 2013 #2
Good Answer FreakinDJ Nov 2013 #3
I know renie408 Nov 2013 #5
That pretty much sums it up n/t kcr Nov 2013 #23
I am a bit confused by your assertion comparing pornography to rape pornography.. madinmaryland Nov 2013 #33
I compared two fringe groups Democracyinkind Nov 2013 #34
I don't know if that is even an apt comparison... madinmaryland Nov 2013 #35
I only compared them regarding their numbers/significance. Democracyinkind Nov 2013 #39
I think there are two fundamentally different wordviews BainsBane Nov 2013 #4
Huge K&R to OP and this post, BainsBane... OneGrassRoot Nov 2013 #9
I understand what you are trying to say, I just think tying 1st amendment to Laissez-fairism stevenleser Nov 2013 #11
I don't understand it at all Major Nikon Nov 2013 #55
That depends on how you define socialism BainsBane Nov 2013 #131
So rrneck Nov 2013 #137
As insightful as that question is BainsBane Nov 2013 #139
Ah, rrneck Nov 2013 #141
Well said. ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #30
Beautifully stated Tumbulu Dec 2013 #176
This is truth. n/t PowerToThePeople Dec 2013 #209
You pose an interesting question. Laelth Nov 2013 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Nov 2013 #7
I am.pretty much where you are... renie408 Nov 2013 #13
I don't think it needs to be banned ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #37
i agree. i have never suggest banning, regardless of the strawman always thrown out. education, seabeyond Nov 2013 #44
A person who had not been following these xulamaude Nov 2013 #56
so what do you or others want to achieve? RainDog Nov 2013 #67
I was simply making an observation. xulamaude Nov 2013 #73
okay RainDog Nov 2013 #75
What's so interesting about it? xulamaude Nov 2013 #78
it's interesting that someone who participates on these threads RainDog Nov 2013 #80
"you have made assertions about this or that" xulamaude Nov 2013 #88
LOL RainDog Nov 2013 #89
Well that's settled then. nt xulamaude Nov 2013 #90
wow woman. i am saying the smae in a subthread below. isnt that interesting. i addressed the seabeyond Nov 2013 #86
I don't feel any such conflict. They're in alignment. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #135
Thank you for posting that link. MyshkinCommaPrince Nov 2013 #138
I always liked the Wiccan Rede Savannahmann Nov 2013 #8
It's the pesky harming none part that always gets tricky. TDale313 Nov 2013 #167
I think you also unintentionally phrased your OP in a very heteronormative way stevenleser Nov 2013 #10
Huh...you are right. renie408 Nov 2013 #12
Their entire argument is inherently heteronormative. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #28
At what jobs is it legal to actually hurt another person for pleasure and pay? Tumbulu Dec 2013 #177
Ummm... opiate69 Dec 2013 #183
But there are safety rules and protective clothing Tumbulu Dec 2013 #196
Nope.. I'm fairly certain... opiate69 Dec 2013 #197
But this is a sport competition, not a paid job Tumbulu Dec 2013 #199
It's, at its core, opiate69 Dec 2013 #200
But workers comp and OSHA rules apply to a paid workforce Tumbulu Dec 2013 #202
Edited. opiate69 Dec 2013 #204
Yes, but employers are held responsible for safety of all employees Tumbulu Dec 2013 #206
Can't answer right now. Watching a football game. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #190
... opiate69 Dec 2013 #192
So, do you think that they should go without helmets Tumbulu Dec 2013 #195
I find it intriguing that sports injuries are rationalized as "he knew what he was getting into" lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #208
Well, I don't have that attitude, do you? Tumbulu Dec 2013 #211
To an extent, I do. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #212
The issue is coercion, by whatever means. bemildred Nov 2013 #14
I'm still trying to get past your thread title, frankly. Pornography is an "ideal"? Where? Pompeii? WinkyDink Nov 2013 #15
Post removed Post removed Nov 2013 #16
Don't like it? Don't watch it. lightcameron Nov 2013 #17
See? This is pretty much what I am saying. renie408 Nov 2013 #18
Condescending much? 99Forever Nov 2013 #19
Seriously? renie408 Nov 2013 #24
Yes. Seriously. 99Forever Nov 2013 #27
Not really an answer treestar Nov 2013 #81
It isn't a conflict of progressive ideals Prism Nov 2013 #20
I think my problem is not with porn per se renie408 Nov 2013 #22
I find the "anti-porn" debate is like the "anti-abortion" debate RainDog Nov 2013 #26
And there would be a lot of common ground in that discussion Prism Nov 2013 #77
I love this post. LWolf Nov 2013 #21
It's not an either/or issue RainDog Nov 2013 #31
Great post. Whatever the problems at hand, state tyranny of any kind is not the answer. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #93
Of course. LWolf Nov 2013 #103
I think monotheisms are far worse for women than porn RainDog Nov 2013 #107
I think we have. LWolf Nov 2013 #119
I've been called a bigot for doing so here RainDog Nov 2013 #120
"I don't find a broad overlap between those who constantly talk about the harm of porn xulamaude Nov 2013 #130
If that's the case RainDog Nov 2013 #133
It's easy to miss things LWolf Nov 2013 #151
True RainDog Nov 2013 #163
well said. i agree. nt seabeyond Nov 2013 #45
jeez Iggo Nov 2013 #25
Finally! An intelligent OP on the subject. Thank you. rrneck Nov 2013 #29
i think HUMAN BEING trumps a piece of paper. and we are talking world wide, not just seabeyond Nov 2013 #32
To deny someone the freedom of expression is to dehumanize them. nt rrneck Nov 2013 #54
funny. like that compares to abuse rape enslavement coercion death. and again, as i said in post seabeyond Nov 2013 #57
Actually, you're certainly suggesting banning. rrneck Nov 2013 #59
wrong. wrong wrong wrong. fuck. i have fact yet you throw it to emotion. seabeyond Nov 2013 #60
Then explain post #32. rrneck Nov 2013 #61
post 32 is the reality. fact. we are comparing the constitution to the abuse, coercion, rape, seabeyond Nov 2013 #62
What does that reality have to do with fiction? nt rrneck Nov 2013 #63
and then there are those that need it all wrapped up in a pretty bow seabeyond Nov 2013 #65
Actually, I thought I might learn something. rrneck Nov 2013 #66
cause, i have only explained it for about mmmm, years. and because we have had a week of many seabeyond Nov 2013 #69
And yet we are still no closer to establishing cause and effect relationships to those who consent Major Nikon Nov 2013 #72
You refer to "ugly realities" without being very specific. rrneck Nov 2013 #74
see. cause this is not what i am going to do. i am not going thru this shit again. seabeyond Nov 2013 #83
Okay. You too. nt rrneck Nov 2013 #85
thank you.... seabeyond Nov 2013 #87
Your posts are a perfect example of the strawman argument mentioned in the OP. Threedifferentones Nov 2013 #152
The argument might well be that when fictional representations of rape and abuse el_bryanto Nov 2013 #157
Why not rephrase that in a form of a statement? Bonobo Nov 2013 #162
Because I am trying to understand it - not asserting it. nt el_bryanto Nov 2013 #166
About as far away as a person who enjoys watching horror movies enjoys actually murdering people. EOTE Dec 2013 #215
I don't recall having asserted that el_bryanto Dec 2013 #217
You didn't suggest that people who would watch such things would be likely to do such things? EOTE Dec 2013 #218
I am repeating an often made argument el_bryanto Dec 2013 #220
That "whole thing" wasn't in the post I was responding to. EOTE Dec 2013 #221
Good point. smirkymonkey Dec 2013 #236
Then what is your remedy? Major Nikon Nov 2013 #70
here is the point where so many fail. i ercognize the very real deal of it all, and can seabeyond Nov 2013 #82
I would never claim anyone has to like it Major Nikon Nov 2013 #100
When you can't tell one from the other. When the one is *presented* as the other. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #94
The objective is to make it indistinguishable. rrneck Nov 2013 #98
I can see what you're saying. But I still think that, with the amount of *real* rape/torture footage nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #101
Absolutely. rrneck Nov 2013 #102
to treat them as property is to quite literally dehumanize them BainsBane Nov 2013 #132
What are you talking about? rrneck Nov 2013 #134
You do realize that the actors are human beings, right? BainsBane Nov 2013 #140
Are you typing these posts on a computer rrneck Nov 2013 #143
No they should not, and we as liberals do work to continually improve worker safety matters Tumbulu Dec 2013 #179
It's legal when it's fiction. rrneck Dec 2013 #182
Rape Porn is a Narrowly Defined Subset of Porn. Rape is Illegal. Rape is Violence. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #36
Exactly! nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #95
Why should they collide? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #38
I was told Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #53
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #68
if the actress Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #91
Sounds like a crappy excuse. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #104
I know Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #105
do you have a link for someone making this claim? RainDog Nov 2013 #71
I do, since I had to c/p it earlier LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #115
thanks RainDog Nov 2013 #116
LOL! LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #118
How can you justify hurting someone for pay? Tumbulu Dec 2013 #181
People choose what they want to do. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #187
Oh, sorry, this is called libertarian, not liberal nt Tumbulu Dec 2013 #194
Some people truly enjoy being hurt in various ways mwrguy Dec 2013 #234
Guns sort of fit into this mindset The Straight Story Nov 2013 #40
question for you and/or anyone else that might know: Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #41
both are probably over regulated The Straight Story Nov 2013 #42
so then, is it fair to say that, you are for deregulation of both industries? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #43
it is fair to say: The Straight Story Nov 2013 #46
Do you think Rape Porn depicts an act of sex (a sex scene) or an act of violence? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #48
sex The Straight Story Nov 2013 #50
I am not your stepping stone. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #113
That it's a simulation doesn't change what it depicts BainsBane Dec 2013 #237
Typically it portrays an act of fictional, stylized violence or domination. Orrex Dec 2013 #213
The question is central to the issue BainsBane Dec 2013 #238
I don't understand the multiple guns fear thing. I only have two arms. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #170
There's also those of us concerned with work place conditions and remuneration etc. KittyWampus Nov 2013 #47
Do you think a person can give legal consent while under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #49
Or kidnapped and forced. Or dominated and controlled. We can't make it simple cause it is not. seabeyond Nov 2013 #51
Who is trying to make it simple? You. Threedifferentones Nov 2013 #153
Free Speech is a liberal ideal, not a progressive ideal cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #52
But on the other hand, being anti-free speech isn't generally seen as progressive. With good reason. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #96
Are abortion rights a free speech issue? Major Nikon Nov 2013 #58
Pornography, much like retail shopping, is not problematic in and of itself... Hippo_Tron Nov 2013 #64
There are things we shouldn't do or are not allowed to do no matter how much money is offered. Evoman Nov 2013 #76
Aren't women capable of making their own decisions? Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #84
shouldnt i be able to decide to work for Walmart for ten cents an hour? Its my body Evoman Nov 2013 #122
Yes. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #128
No, it is the argument that makes sense Tumbulu Dec 2013 #184
Uh huh. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #189
"It is dangerous to performers..." NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #112
It should be safe from excessive risk of injury Major Nikon Nov 2013 #117
I don't think you can ever remove the risks... NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #126
Safe is relative to the occupation Major Nikon Nov 2013 #148
probably. Evoman Nov 2013 #123
Uh...probably because that has nothing to do with baseball. NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #125
They have rules and regulations to protect the players Tumbulu Dec 2013 #185
The question of harm is the legitimate one Warpy Nov 2013 #79
If porn is considered an "ideal," civilization really has scraped rock bottom. n/t duffyduff Nov 2013 #92
"Anything that smacks of limiting free speech is anathema." NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #97
You do not think that the workers deserve any protection? Tumbulu Dec 2013 #186
I heard a funny joke on the radio on this topic... Jeffersons Ghost Nov 2013 #99
Here's a post which sums up why this "debate" is totally pointless: Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #106
Except that only a few people here actually take it that far. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #108
This is true. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #121
I think you're probably right. One could argue that it's a matter of raising greater awareness - nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #124
people just want to talk about porn RainDog Nov 2013 #142
Yeah, I'll wear that label proudly. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #144
Seems like more than a few, and only a few are calling bullshit when they do Major Nikon Nov 2013 #150
I agree completely with the Friedan quote. And for the most part I'm strongly anti-censorship. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #156
At some point you have to decide it's banal Major Nikon Nov 2013 #158
Oh, absolutely. I certainly don't subscribe to any "porn causes rape" theory - other than nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #161
I have no problem with anyone who wants to boycott Major Nikon Nov 2013 #165
Yeah. Jenna Jameson had a long career in porn because Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #110
Nina Hartley has been doing it continuously for 30 years Major Nikon Nov 2013 #154
10/10, best post I've seen on this topic. n/t Kurska Nov 2013 #111
If you weren't going to try to respond to the question in the OP BainsBane Nov 2013 #127
I find it oddly ironic that your extremely non-responsive response to my response Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #145
I see what you mean. It was poorly executed. BainsBane Nov 2013 #146
It's all good. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #147
I hate you Orrex Nov 2013 #159
Indeed Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #160
I've seen this same idea expressed in other posts, hughee99 Nov 2013 #168
I think that the discussion is about violence Tumbulu Dec 2013 #188
Don't forget spanking, clamping, and strapping mwrguy Dec 2013 #235
This is an easy answer for me procon Nov 2013 #109
very. well. said. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2013 #114
I see no problem with boycotting Major Nikon Nov 2013 #155
I personally don't have a desire to attack "rape porn" for the following reasons: Dash87 Nov 2013 #129
One can criticize content without calling for censorship bluestateguy Nov 2013 #136
That's exactly the way I look at it Major Nikon Nov 2013 #149
And shockingly, here we are 7-8 threads deep into this topic, and Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #164
And DU was made for porn fights! RainDog Nov 2013 #169
Apparently, porn has replaced... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #171
this will explain all RainDog Dec 2013 #173
"Reefer Madness" was special and I can't imagine... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #175
Progressive ideals? I'm not sure that's the point in a lot of this... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #172
Seriously - I don't think free speech and social justice are separable RainDog Dec 2013 #174
So can I Buck Stopin Harry Dec 2013 #193
As BainsBane said upthread, the intellectual/philisophical justification for porn... YoungDemCA Dec 2013 #178
This is blatantly false RainDog Dec 2013 #191
So the ONLY things that are valuable are those which benefit society? What a crock. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #233
Some pornography contains NO women. MNBrewer Dec 2013 #180
Amen mwrguy Dec 2013 #232
I'm in the "do no harm" camp Tumbulu Dec 2013 #198
Consent is the issue regarding harm. Your sheep did not get to consent. RainDog Dec 2013 #201
I do not think that someone consenting to do something that hurts or maims them Tumbulu Dec 2013 #203
as others have noted RainDog Dec 2013 #205
So where does all this go? Tumbulu Dec 2013 #210
It's interesting that you choose not to address the issue of your own actions RainDog Dec 2013 #216
This message was self-deleted by its author Tumbulu Dec 2013 #219
I was #1. Sissyk Dec 2013 #222
desperation, looks to me RainDog Dec 2013 #226
Are you implying that because you defend violent porn that you therefore Tumbulu Dec 2013 #223
LOL. RainDog Dec 2013 #225
Well, many of us are not Tumbulu Dec 2013 #228
thanks for sharing your opinion...on a computer n/t RainDog Dec 2013 #229
The recent spate of threads Riftaxe Dec 2013 #207
The OP calls for censorship, whether this is understood or not RainDog Dec 2013 #214
and yet another illumination Tumbulu Dec 2013 #224
yet again, you miss the point RainDog Dec 2013 #227
Do no harm get the red out Dec 2013 #230
There are conflicting ideals, but they are not porn v. feminism. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #231
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»When ideals collide... po...»Reply #51