General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

150. It's not something that will ever be perfect

Thu Sep 12, 2013, 01:33 PM

Sep 2013

It's not a case where we will ever get the full story. Or at least in any reasonable timeframe.

All I'm saying is we should read his reports carefully, and compare them to other sources when possible.

For example, we should not assume that the NSA is still doing things that Greenwald reports they did in 2007 - other sources have reported a large number of reforms and increased oversight since then. That doesn't mean the NSA didn't do it in 2007. It means we should not follow Greenwald's implied story that they are still doing it, absent some actual evidence that it continued.

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"Progressive Hero" Glenn Greenwald Promotes Racist, Anti-Government Hate Group [View all] michigandem58 Sep 2013 OP

IMO, Greenwald is a ratfucker...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #1

What evidence do you have to support this opinion? el_bryanto Sep 2013 #6

Um...promoting a racist hate group, as identified by the SPLC, while claiming to be msanthrope Sep 2013 #12

When were those actions taken? el_bryanto Sep 2013 #51

After the election of the Democratic President. nt msanthrope Sep 2013 #67

Was he praising Libertarian principals or opposing the surveillance state? nt el_bryanto Sep 2013 #70

The former. Although you'll have to ask him personally about the donor's dinner for msanthrope Sep 2013 #75

Interesting el_bryanto Sep 2013 #79

He wrote white paper on decriminalization--that's a policy paper, not a mere presentation. msanthrope Sep 2013 #93

That's where I'd seen Fein's name!... SidDithers Sep 2013 #95

Why yes--yes they are. Interesting how a scion of the Libertarian Party and Greenwald were msanthrope Sep 2013 #101

I take it you are opposed to Drug Decriminalization? nt el_bryanto Sep 2013 #99

I am opposed to Koch-funded studies of any law enforcement issue. You wanna read their msanthrope Sep 2013 #103

Ah - so you are a purist? el_bryanto Sep 2013 #107

No--I distrust anything coming from the Koch brothers. CATO was founded and funded msanthrope Sep 2013 #111

So you condemn Greenwald because he wrote a paper supporting a position you agree with el_bryanto Sep 2013 #112

I condemn Greenwald because he took Koch money when he could have taken money from msanthrope Sep 2013 #115

the CATO industry isn't the same as Stormfront. If you see them as equivalent than el_bryanto Sep 2013 #117

no--unlike Stormfront, Charles Koch has billions at his disposal to spread racism. msanthrope Sep 2013 #120

I do know about those links el_bryanto Sep 2013 #125

The blog owner of 'thesheeplesview' refused to vote for Obama. Rex Sep 2013 #155

Hello! You had me at "bought and paid for" by association. I get it. Tigress DEM Sep 2013 #183

True, but they denied climate change - or at least that it was man made karynnj Sep 2013 #131

Cato fellows wrote the legal justification for the War, Torture, Warrantless Wiretapping... kfreed Jul 2015 #192

I have video snooper2 Sep 2013 #15

... michigandem58 Sep 2013 #10

OMG! You homophone. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #27

LOL Cali_Democrat Sep 2013 #141

Glenn Greenwald's Fact-Challenged Libertarian Talking Points, Koch-approved kfreed Jul 2015 #193

So there is no NSA spying? Scuba Sep 2013 #2

that's like their job LOL snooper2 Sep 2013 #16

Good one! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #53

What do we expect from a DUer named snooper whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #55

Snappy answer lark Sep 2013 #98

117K targets, we learned that thanks to Snowy! snooper2 Sep 2013 #102

Thats like, not their job, man. quakerboy Sep 2013 #185

Give credit where credit is due. Shemp Howard Sep 2013 #38

That seems to be the main focus of OPs like this. Vinnie From Indy Sep 2013 #40

Amen eom dotymed Sep 2013 #77

Or the OP could be saying... iandhr Sep 2013 #88

First of all the source for the OP is an anit-left hate sight. Secondly, now that the curtain rhett o rick Sep 2013 #170

... SidDithers Sep 2013 #187

Most likely funded by the Koch Bros. Why would Democrats try to split the party rhett o rick Sep 2013 #188

Obama To Leno: 'There Is No Spying On Americans' leftstreet Sep 2013 #46

Another in a long list of reasons why I find BHO to be the most disappointing Prez of my lifetime. Scuba Sep 2013 #49

you are not alone there...but I too had high expectations Supersedeas Sep 2013 #84

I think thats a key point quakerboy Sep 2013 #186

Take # 683 of the Greenwald hate. hobbit709 Sep 2013 #3

What's going on? Whisp Sep 2013 #4

Exactly...lie down with dogs... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #56

Precious Bodily Fluids iandhr Sep 2013 #65

i might have "promoted Oathkeepers" here at DU Enrique Sep 2013 #5

Greenwald is not a progressive. MineralMan Sep 2013 #7

+1 tallahasseedem Sep 2013 #8

Here we go again. The Call to Stupid. woo me with science Sep 2013 #9

"The Peoples View" is always a alsame Sep 2013 #11

Or the converse to your little theory oberliner Sep 2013 #17

Now *that's* some doubling down on the Call to Stupid. woo me with science Sep 2013 #37

well, the plague of stupid requires stupidicus Sep 2013 #48

I swear, stupidicus.. woo me with science Sep 2013 #135

lol stupidicus Sep 2013 #177

The rant is much appreciated. :) woo me with science Sep 2013 #181

I disagree oberliner Sep 2013 #78

So now the faux complaint of being prohibited from "saying bad things about Glenn Greenwald" woo me with science Sep 2013 #123

Can't we just have a reasonable exchange of ideas? oberliner Sep 2013 #137

Reasonable exchange of ideas Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #153

How does a conservative know who a "progressive hero" is? The Link Sep 2013 #13

Bingo! truebluegreen Sep 2013 #116

Calling Greenwald a "progressive hero" is a bit of hyperbole. djean111 Sep 2013 #14

Similar un-nuanced thinking happens in reverse oberliner Sep 2013 #20

Agree with you maddezmom Sep 2013 #25

Some wouldn't care if he was having beers with the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #62

Or representing him in court KamaAina Sep 2013 #113

I understand what you are saying. djean111 Sep 2013 #31

Because Greenwald is a filter. jeff47 Sep 2013 #36

Well, the government is not going to tell us anything at all. djean111 Sep 2013 #54

Just because you think someone is hiding more doesn't mean he isn't. jeff47 Sep 2013 #143

If they don't have the manpower to listen to all of it in real-time, they don't have the manpower to djean111 Sep 2013 #156

Well, there's the other minor problem jeff47 Sep 2013 #163

I am not saying I know they are collecting actual calls. Not believing we have seen all the djean111 Sep 2013 #164

So....if you pull it out of the air, it must be true? jeff47 Sep 2013 #165

Again, I have not said it was true. I am saying it is possible. djean111 Sep 2013 #166

No, you aren't. jeff47 Sep 2013 #168

Argosearch searches through recorded conversations. djean111 Sep 2013 #169

Greenwald is NOT a libertarian.. frylock Sep 2013 #57

It does not matter zeemike Sep 2013 #85

And Pat Buchanan has stated that he is NOT a Republican. jeff47 Sep 2013 #146

Who is out there doing better or more? robinlynne Sep 2013 #104

It's not something that will ever be perfect jeff47 Sep 2013 #150

I've been reading about DECREASED oversight since 2011. here, besides other places. robinlynne Sep 2013 #184

You've been reading things that aren't backed by evidence. jeff47 Sep 2013 #190

court cases. not claims. court cases. robinlynne Sep 2013 #191

And as we see with his friend Assange, what he is saying may well be untrue or disinformation stevenleser Sep 2013 #127

I rest my case.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #63

What case was that? djean111 Sep 2013 #69

that some would defend him even if he sidled up to the Ku Klux Klan.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #71

Nobody is "defending him", as far as I can see. djean111 Sep 2013 #83

Thanks for this response oberliner Sep 2013 #82

that sorta begs the question though hfojvt Sep 2013 #158

isn't there a point to this? hfojvt Sep 2013 #157

Right wing libertarians! treestar Sep 2013 #18

I guess those of us who hated cointelpro and spying on us in the sixties must have been RIGHT WING!! cascadiance Sep 2013 #50

Spandan: scholar on social policy and barrista. KG Sep 2013 #19

ha ha ha Enrique Sep 2013 #32

wow.. there are fleas in that bed Peacetrain Sep 2013 #21

Back to our regularly scheduled programming BainsBane Sep 2013 #22

oh a peoples view link? SwampG8r Sep 2013 #23

It is one sentence long with no adjectives. There is no promoting. There is a statement of news. of robinlynne Sep 2013 #24

"As long as they agree with me on X, what's the difference?????" alcibiades_mystery Sep 2013 #26

His NSA reporting is key michigandem58 Sep 2013 #28

The Koch brothers are principal funders of the Reason Foundation and Reason magazine. OregonBlue Sep 2013 #29

And were also big funders and part of the leadership of the DLC infection of the Democratic Party cascadiance Sep 2013 #52

Well that does it then zeemike Sep 2013 #87

Are you a supporter of Koch and Reason? The Koch brothers father was one of the 5 founding members OregonBlue Sep 2013 #138

Why did you alter the image? Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #30

It isn't the one Reason used but it is an actual ad put in the Metro by the Oathkeepere maddezmom Sep 2013 #34

Thanks Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #59

Why are you posting an altered image as if it were real?...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #39

"when you lie down with dogs ... madrchsod Sep 2013 #33

Please don't lump all us progressives in with that bunch, thx! Cryptoad Sep 2013 #35

Glenn Greenwald posts something that displays his ignorance, deceit and/or hypocrisy? baldguy Sep 2013 #41

I think Glenn and comrad eddie are communist spies. stonecutter357 Sep 2013 #42

And this invalidates the evidence so far because? Taverner Sep 2013 #43

They are separate issues. iandhr Sep 2013 #72

Exactly eom Taverner Sep 2013 #74

I don't the OP is saying that the NSA isn't spying on Americans. iandhr Sep 2013 #76

Bullshit. Octafish Sep 2013 #44

+8,749 Scuba Sep 2013 #45

Oh Octafish, tblue Sep 2013 #64

so you are saying...even if he WAS having beers with the Grand Dragon so what? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #68

Can Mighty Mouse beat up Superman? Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #73

Grand Dragon? zeemike Sep 2013 #89

Yes - pointing out the existence of something is now "promoting" it. Maedhros Sep 2013 #126

It's amazing to watch, isn't it. woo me with science Sep 2013 #133

Snowden is a coward and a Thief. stonecutter357 Sep 2013 #47

Why does anyone give a rip about either of them? truebluegreen Sep 2013 #119

i don't think you know what "promote" or "progressive" means.. frylock Sep 2013 #58

Piece of shit blog is way too generous a discription Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #60

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3655024 Kolesar Sep 2013 #159

You can oppose NSA violations of the constitution... iandhr Sep 2013 #61

K & R. n/t FSogol Sep 2013 #66

Even if your framing is true ...we have learned a lot from far worse people ...like Joseph Goebbels. L0oniX Sep 2013 #80

So we're back to the Pro-NSA propaganda from bullshit blogsites? last1standing Sep 2013 #81

You don't know thats what the OP is saying iandhr Sep 2013 #96

So you support guilt by association? Joe McCarthey would have been proud. last1standing Sep 2013 #100

People are always judged by the company they keep. iandhr Sep 2013 #106

That's a bullshit comparison. last1standing Sep 2013 #109

One many Republicans would be dumb enough not to know... iandhr Sep 2013 #114

Ok, you win. We should look at guilt by association. last1standing Sep 2013 #118

Touche! truebluegreen Sep 2013 #121

Thanks. You'll notice the backflips to find a difference. last1standing Sep 2013 #139

I was pissed when I found out. iandhr Sep 2013 #124

Lol! Not even close to a win. last1standing Sep 2013 #129

This not the only thing in my mind against Greenwald iandhr Sep 2013 #130

Again, far less connection than Obama with Warren or McClurkin. last1standing Sep 2013 #132

Ok then iandhr Sep 2013 #134

Did we need another president when Obama supported homophobes? last1standing Sep 2013 #136

At that time... iandhr Sep 2013 #140

And Greenwald has supported the civil rights of many, many minorities and other groups. last1standing Sep 2013 #142

Then why does he pal around with Ron Paul? iandhr Sep 2013 #145

Why does Obama pal around with Warren, a man who supports killing gays? last1standing Sep 2013 #147

He doesn't anymore. iandhr Sep 2013 #148

You sure? I can't find anywhere that Obama denounced him. last1standing Sep 2013 #151

"Why is your agenda more important than simple truth?" I could ask the Greenwald fanatics........... AverageJoe90 Sep 2013 #172

fail U4ikLefty Sep 2013 #175

Not at all. To the contrary, in fact. AverageJoe90 Sep 2013 #179

Has there been any further Greenwald comment on this? Blue_Tires Sep 2013 #86

Figures that Eisenhower was a commie flamingdem Sep 2013 #90

Larry Summers raindaddy Sep 2013 #91

@#$% Glenn Greenwald. Scurrilous Sep 2013 #92

Another Ten Minute Hate. leveymg Sep 2013 #94

K&r Sand Wind Sep 2013 #97

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....etc bowens43 Sep 2013 #105

you really must find other sources to work with then a crackpost conspiracy theory hate site, REALLY Douglas Carpenter Sep 2013 #108

Bullshit MNBrewer Sep 2013 #110

Why make such a dishonest argument? DirkGently Sep 2013 #122

Wow. What a sad pathetic post. Have you ever even tried to make a rational argument? DesMoinesDem Sep 2013 #128

"The Peoples Spew" spews again. bunnies Sep 2013 #144

Why did 'the peoples view' blog owner refuse to vote for Obama? Rex Sep 2013 #149

The second I read the thread title AgingAmerican Sep 2013 #152

Glenn Greenwald Speaks Out at Socialism 2013 Conference with intro by Jeremy Scahill Douglas Carpenter Sep 2013 #154

frylock:"you're just here to "promote" your piece of shit blog, spandan" Kolesar Sep 2013 #160

I'd categorize this under "flogging your blog" - TBF Sep 2013 #161

It's not his blog, though. freshwest Sep 2013 #162

K & R Scurrilous Sep 2013 #167

You finally found a website that will feed you anti-left hatred. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #171

Wow! shenmue Sep 2013 #173

Wll your latest lame, cheesy attempt at character assassination... 99Forever Sep 2013 #174

Greenwald's his own worst hatemongering enemy. Cha Sep 2013 #176

"Good riddance, Barack Obama." rug Sep 2013 #178

Same old posters, same old tactics: Shoot the messengers. Th1onein Sep 2013 #180

Still threatened by Greenwald I see. cui bono Sep 2013 #182

Greenwald allies himself with anyone who helps Progressive dog Sep 2013 #189