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Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
45. But that's not necessarily what will happen..
Sun Feb 26, 2012, 11:33 AM
Feb 2012

You've never personally run into a situation where a less competent individual is promoted/retained over a more competent one because they were better at playing the system/schmoozing?



"Always see news stories" and "teachers being kept despite bad performance,etc" MichiganVote Feb 2012 #1
The point isn't the what they say.. it is asking what the actual process SHOULD be... NT BrentWil Feb 2012 #2
A process is only as good as those who actually follow it. Think there are a lot of bad apples? MichiganVote Feb 2012 #7
Complex processes take time to go through... BrentWil Feb 2012 #18
Google and other companies can't just hire/fire at the drop of a hat ibegurpard Feb 2012 #25
Certainly they do.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #29
Those companies all have performance review processes too. They are also for profit enterprises. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #32
I am sure someone at Google manages 25 to 30 people BrentWil Feb 2012 #41
But that's not necessarily what will happen.. Fumesucker Feb 2012 #45
or just taller or better looking. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #49
Certainly... BrentWil Feb 2012 #53
I didn't notice a mention of students in your OP.. Fumesucker Feb 2012 #57
I said "kids". Been a room full of 25-30 kids daily recently? No, you haven't. Nuff' said. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #50
Not being a teacher doesn't stop me from commenting on labor practices.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #58
How about you tell us what you perceive the problems are and then propose 1monster Feb 2012 #68
None flexibility for hiring/pay issues and also firing issues... BrentWil Feb 2012 #70
I was a public school teacher for nine years (9th grade mostly) Yupster Feb 2012 #92
Thanks for the post. Very good and I do think it shows some of the problems with the system. BrentWil Feb 2012 #94
Huh? 1monster Feb 2012 #105
Twenty-five to thirty school children on a daily basis is only true in elementary school. 1monster Feb 2012 #51
+1 MichiganVote Feb 2012 #52
I would say that would vary from district to district... BrentWil Feb 2012 #61
A committment on the part of the School Board all the way down to the the food 1monster Feb 2012 #67
I like how you preface your argument with "we always see news stories" about bad teachers Hugabear Feb 2012 #3
I don't "always" see news stories about how we keep bad teachers... trumad Feb 2012 #4
or Drudge... Hugabear Feb 2012 #26
Have you done some investigation on your own? ibegurpard Feb 2012 #5
Absolutely... BrentWil Feb 2012 #9
well, sounds like you have your answer then ibegurpard Feb 2012 #14
The point of the thread wasn't how it is done now... BrentWil Feb 2012 #23
Tenure saved my very-well-qualified liberalhistorian Feb 2012 #89
Tenure cost my good friend his job joeglow3 Feb 2012 #98
Because generally those who are there longer liberalhistorian Feb 2012 #99
Generally doesn't mean always. joeglow3 Feb 2012 #100
Rather than focusing on getting rid of bad teachers, MadHound Feb 2012 #6
if the same amount of education is required than I see Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #11
What are "the same amount of it's"? MadHound Feb 2012 #19
as soon as they have 4 years of college, 4 years of education school Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #24
I have all of that, but 5 years of a low paying residency. proud2BlibKansan Feb 2012 #71
There would have to be some sort of board certification program and something akin to the MCATs Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #96
Teachers never can expect huge salaries. RebelOne Feb 2012 #95
Well, because I didn't start a thread on that... BrentWil Feb 2012 #12
You started a thread on how to get rid of bad teachers, MadHound Feb 2012 #21
I'd be curious to see OPs definition of "bad teachers" as well ibegurpard Feb 2012 #27
It is rather subjective... I think that is best kept to local systems.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #31
As are the processes ALREADY IN PLACE ibegurpard Feb 2012 #33
Certainly... BrentWil Feb 2012 #37
Yeah, but he's not interested in that. He's only interested liberalhistorian Feb 2012 #91
I lean toward treating them the same way as IT professionals who are terminated for job performance slackmaster Feb 2012 #8
IE: just humiliate the fuck out of them eh? trumad Feb 2012 #10
No. Eject them from the premises before they have a chance to do any more harm. slackmaster Feb 2012 #56
Frog March? trumad Feb 2012 #65
I give you the TCU Horned Frog Marching Band in action slackmaster Feb 2012 #69
if you make your class write Valentines to your Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #13
Nor should you be on paid leave while it takes years to fire you.....nt msanthrope Feb 2012 #102
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. " Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #15
Did I ever say in my OP that is what is wrong with public schools? BrentWil Feb 2012 #22
Not sure. You've edited it six times so far so I'm not sure what you may have said. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #30
Yes, the betterment of education is my point... BrentWil Feb 2012 #34
Hiring and retaining good teachers is a HUGE part of it. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #59
Thanks for the answer... BrentWil Feb 2012 #63
Any ideas about how to go about doing this? Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #76
As I said, I think any board of education should have one job.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #81
We effectively HAVE exactly that. It's called "mayoral control". Lots of urban districts have it. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #86
I disagree that it has been a "disaster"... BrentWil Feb 2012 #87
Come on. It's Cathie Black. For god sakes. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #88
Come on. It's Cathie Black. For god sakes. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #90
Who ProSense Feb 2012 #16
Why Not? BrentWil Feb 2012 #20
Yeah ProSense Feb 2012 #28
The fact that every school board is different doesn't stop one from discussing the ideal solution.NT BrentWil Feb 2012 #35
This ProSense Feb 2012 #43
The subject has merit... JSnuffy Feb 2012 #17
sad because it's true. Terry_M Feb 2012 #36
Perhaps the issue should be on how to hire them--not fire them. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #38
That is one part of it... BrentWil Feb 2012 #39
Nothing wrong with any question. But let's get real. You've changed the preface of your question. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #44
+1 OH YEAH. I forgot. REALITY. We have to figure out a way to get rid of you, MV. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #75
I am. Matter of fact I've been that way since I started. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #79
Where did you find the dull BS anyway? Did you just make it up? L. Coyote Feb 2012 #40
It IS a tea party soundbite ibegurpard Feb 2012 #42
Wants to advance the non payment of teachers. Period. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #48
Local control is good... BrentWil Feb 2012 #55
It's ProSense Feb 2012 #47
So emotional... BrentWil Feb 2012 #54
WTF? "inability to improve because of lack of motivation" L. Coyote Feb 2012 #62
Public School Teachers and Administrators: How WE DO fire them!!! L. Coyote Feb 2012 #46
That is a problem.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #60
WTF? "And has to be thought about..." NO, this has to be rectified L. Coyote Feb 2012 #64
Secretaries of Education: How Should We Fire Them? Karmadillo Feb 2012 #66
+1,000,000 proud2BlibKansan Feb 2012 #72
It's ALWAYS down to the administrators. saras Feb 2012 #73
Systems affect the process... BrentWil Feb 2012 #74
Actually the word you are looking for is 'affect', not effect. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #80
The problem is in the question and defintions. Igel Feb 2012 #77
nooo! too much nuance...doesn't fit the narrative... ibegurpard Feb 2012 #82
Unpacking accomplished. +1 n/t Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #97
Excellent post from someone who actually knows something. Chorophyll Feb 2012 #104
It's pretty easy to find the flaws here Major Nikon Feb 2012 #78
The system is what can produce both... BrentWil Feb 2012 #83
Poorly performing managers generally try to blame employees for their own failures Major Nikon Feb 2012 #85
A solution may be like what the National Hockey League did to introduce helmets. bluestate10 Feb 2012 #84
Ok lets take your points 1 by 1 MichiganVote Feb 2012 #93
I imagine if each teacher taught students that were motivated LanternWaste Feb 2012 #101
I look forward to the day Chorophyll Feb 2012 #103
Local control...... Are_grits_groceries Feb 2012 #106
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