HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Like it or Not, Bradley M... » Reply #240
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Response to 4bucksagallon (Reply #237)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:32 AM

240. Well. this is what I wrote the last time there was a major mess about soldiers on a DU thread:

A hurricane is nothing compared to combat. Being buffeted by rain and wind, a force of nature, is a far cry from the tide of emotions that must pass through everyone who has been in the field of battle.

The drudgery, the deaths, both friendly and not, the questions of the validity of one's actions and the reasons to train and perform one's duties, are much stronger than being out in the wind and rain of a storm, a heat wave or a snow storm.

I do not approve of any of our nation's adventures abroad, nor do I care for the military budget being the sacred cow that must not be touched, while people who have paid in civilian life to arm and feed and house and care for soldiers, perish. Our world has had this pageantry of the hero forever, and winners and losers.

Each and every war transforms not only the nation conquered, but the nation that does the act. Wiser souls have said there are no winners in wars. Even the Pope has made a declaration that they change nothing of substance, the problems of mankind still remain. All that has changed are the boundaries on maps or the size of war profiteers bank accounts.

We have been coarsened by our constant militarism. It was not the plan of the Founding Fathers to behave how we have for over half a century. Because all those with good intent or desperation, take your pick, depending on the soldier you know, do not profit like the private contractors nor the companies that make the weapons and push for their product to be used. A product that has murdered millions, shredded the conscience of a nation, polluted the Earth and broken the hearts of mankind.

Yet the soldier, unless they are proven to be guilty of a crime against humanity, is as much a victim as those he kills, in one respect. Because he carries death inside him for the rest of his life, has broken the connection of family and life and love for those he killed. The country or vision he may have thought he joined to save, is not what he is anymore, no matter how he tries to make up for it or deny it.

We are children, both men and women. We are easily influenced beings. Those who have time to stand back from the tumult of war and do business, like the Cheneys and others we love to hate, will not be harmed, and they see us as expendables on their bottom line.

There is a meaning in symbolism that is irresistable and compelling, deeply spiritual and mind dumbing at the same time. It is beyond the power of most humans to resist. The scene in the manger of Mary with the Christ child, and other such iconic visions, touch us in an inner place we dare not put into words, that we hold sacred and will defend, to the point of insanity. But I will try to put into words my feelings about this ritual.

They are protecting the Unknowns. A man they have never met, nameless, but a human being and a brother in arms. That symbolism to me represents the country or government itself, which is much larger than the military. The libertarian view of life, is one cares for those one knows, and the all of the rest of humanity one doesn't know, are of no account, as it doesn't help the self to survive.

These men are not protecting the tomb out of jingoism. It is out of a sense of shared humanity, that those who have served in such a way, near death or with death, struggle to find again. Many rituals are this way, births, marriages, funerals, speaking in images what is too painful to express in words.

I don't have any problem with this, but it should not be used as an excuse for more wars and I don't believe it is. Since these are volunteers, they aren't adding to the national debt, or whatever some may complain about.

I have no worries or concerns about those on this duty doing something worthless or dangerous. They are honoring someone who faced the ultimate danger in combat and died from it. They didn't die and are grateful for that. They want to celebrate that someone cared enough to die. Many of us know that some things are more important than our own safety and our lives. There are some things worth sacrifice of many our hopes and dreams to protect others.

Now, it may be argued that the persons were drafted, served not wholly of their free will or well informed opinion. But they were human beings once who enjoyed the warmth of sun and the relief of the rain, the feeling of grass beneath their feet, the love of a mother, perhaps a lover, or the many other pleasures of life. I feel they are guarding those things, not a dead body inside a tomb.

Just my two cents.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021659101#post120

The thread was devolving into some bashing back and forth and I just felt I had to express it. Hope it explains my views to you.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 311 replies Author Time Post
michigandem58 Aug 2013 OP
Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #1
jmowreader Aug 2013 #157
Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #168
pnwmom Aug 2013 #227
Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #228
pnwmom Aug 2013 #229
Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #269
pnwmom Aug 2013 #281
Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #282
jmowreader Aug 2013 #287
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #264
hfojvt Aug 2013 #171
myrna minx Aug 2013 #189
hfojvt Aug 2013 #217
ljm2002 Aug 2013 #230
hfojvt Aug 2013 #234
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #243
deutsey Aug 2013 #250
Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #262
hfojvt Aug 2013 #298
Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #304
COLGATE4 Aug 2013 #270
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #278
EX500rider Aug 2013 #300
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #307
EX500rider Aug 2013 #309
hfojvt Aug 2013 #295
ljm2002 Aug 2013 #263
hfojvt Aug 2013 #294
oldhippie Aug 2013 #301
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #2
leftstreet Aug 2013 #3
Historic NY Aug 2013 #129
leftstreet Aug 2013 #131
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #4
ucrdem Aug 2013 #12
cascadiance Aug 2013 #38
ucrdem Aug 2013 #48
freshwest Aug 2013 #114
Cha Aug 2013 #36
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #53
Cha Aug 2013 #73
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #77
cascadiance Aug 2013 #93
Cha Aug 2013 #98
cascadiance Aug 2013 #104
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #249
progressoid Aug 2013 #261
burnodo Aug 2013 #5
alittlelark Aug 2013 #133
doc03 Aug 2013 #6
burnodo Aug 2013 #8
michigandem58 Aug 2013 #10
burnodo Aug 2013 #16
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #22
burnodo Aug 2013 #28
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #33
burnodo Aug 2013 #40
cascadiance Aug 2013 #74
zeemike Aug 2013 #149
Starry Messenger Aug 2013 #213
treestar Aug 2013 #279
cascadiance Aug 2013 #283
treestar Aug 2013 #310
cascadiance Aug 2013 #311
dgauss Aug 2013 #102
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #136
elias7 Aug 2013 #194
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #198
Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #219
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #239
Orsino Aug 2013 #288
The Second Stone Aug 2013 #7
Savannahmann Aug 2013 #14
freshwest Aug 2013 #135
Fumesucker Aug 2013 #9
zipplewrath Aug 2013 #11
Recursion Aug 2013 #13
whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #15
leftstreet Aug 2013 #17
donheld Aug 2013 #231
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #18
BlueJazz Aug 2013 #19
Smarmie Doofus Aug 2013 #184
ucrdem Aug 2013 #20
elias7 Aug 2013 #197
Vashta Nerada Aug 2013 #21
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #23
TheBlackAdder Aug 2013 #182
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #238
ArcticFox Aug 2013 #216
Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #24
michigandem58 Aug 2013 #30
Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #43
Iggo Aug 2013 #245
Little Star Aug 2013 #253
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #25
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #35
DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #44
RetroLounge Aug 2013 #62
ucrdem Aug 2013 #65
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #71
ucrdem Aug 2013 #86
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #92
ucrdem Aug 2013 #95
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #101
ucrdem Aug 2013 #107
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #111
ucrdem Aug 2013 #118
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #125
ucrdem Aug 2013 #128
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #132
ucrdem Aug 2013 #134
blackspade Aug 2013 #141
ucrdem Aug 2013 #145
blackspade Aug 2013 #148
ucrdem Aug 2013 #153
blackspade Aug 2013 #187
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #143
ucrdem Aug 2013 #150
Number23 Aug 2013 #210
Union Scribe Aug 2013 #166
ucrdem Aug 2013 #299
shenmue Aug 2013 #110
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #120
Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #220
Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #291
Cha Aug 2013 #26
burnodo Aug 2013 #31
Cha Aug 2013 #34
former9thward Aug 2013 #39
burnodo Aug 2013 #42
Cha Aug 2013 #47
burnodo Aug 2013 #51
Cha Aug 2013 #67
burnodo Aug 2013 #75
ucrdem Aug 2013 #94
burnodo Aug 2013 #100
ucrdem Aug 2013 #103
burnodo Aug 2013 #109
ucrdem Aug 2013 #117
Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #115
freshwest Aug 2013 #192
Cha Aug 2013 #204
freshwest Aug 2013 #222
liberal N proud Aug 2013 #27
rhett o rick Aug 2013 #29
ArcticFox Aug 2013 #221
leftynyc Aug 2013 #271
ArcticFox Aug 2013 #303
2ndAmForComputers Aug 2013 #32
former9thward Aug 2013 #37
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #41
neverforget Aug 2013 #45
michigandem58 Aug 2013 #52
Enrique Aug 2013 #61
michigandem58 Aug 2013 #69
Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #81
Enrique Aug 2013 #89
michigandem58 Aug 2013 #112
morningfog Aug 2013 #139
davidpdx Aug 2013 #170
neverforget Aug 2013 #185
morningfog Aug 2013 #186
neverforget Aug 2013 #188
dtom67 Aug 2013 #46
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #156
Th1onein Aug 2013 #49
arcane1 Aug 2013 #50
michigandem58 Aug 2013 #57
arcane1 Aug 2013 #87
mike_c Aug 2013 #54
burnodo Aug 2013 #55
Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #121
ucrdem Aug 2013 #126
Number23 Aug 2013 #211
Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #226
lamp_shade Aug 2013 #273
Link Speed Aug 2013 #56
dkf Aug 2013 #58
99Forever Aug 2013 #59
dairydog91 Aug 2013 #60
RetroLounge Aug 2013 #63
mick063 Aug 2013 #64
forestpath Aug 2013 #177
freshwest Aug 2013 #66
JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #70
freshwest Aug 2013 #200
lumpy Aug 2013 #151
freshwest Aug 2013 #203
Cha Aug 2013 #232
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #68
MH1 Aug 2013 #116
blackspade Aug 2013 #138
truebluegreen Aug 2013 #142
NuclearDem Aug 2013 #144
mick063 Aug 2013 #158
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #180
mick063 Aug 2013 #207
ArcticFox Aug 2013 #225
zeemike Aug 2013 #164
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #181
zeemike Aug 2013 #248
20score Aug 2013 #175
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #201
myrna minx Aug 2013 #199
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #209
myrna minx Aug 2013 #212
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #215
ArcticFox Aug 2013 #223
freshwest Aug 2013 #233
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #237
LineLineLineLineReply Well. this is what I wrote the last time there was a major mess about soldiers on a DU thread:
freshwest Aug 2013 #240
4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #241
Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #259
bvar22 Aug 2013 #72
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #246
Matariki Aug 2013 #76
Travis_0004 Aug 2013 #82
burnodo Aug 2013 #91
ljm2002 Aug 2013 #78
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #79
leftynyc Aug 2013 #272
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #277
leftynyc Aug 2013 #296
Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #80
NaturalHigh Aug 2013 #83
Babel_17 Aug 2013 #84
The Link Aug 2013 #85
truebluegreen Aug 2013 #147
TheProgressive Aug 2013 #88
TBF Aug 2013 #90
darkangel218 Aug 2013 #96
geckosfeet Aug 2013 #97
Initech Aug 2013 #99
Orsino Aug 2013 #289
Cerridwen Aug 2013 #105
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #162
customerserviceguy Aug 2013 #106
shenmue Aug 2013 #108
damnedifIknow Aug 2013 #113
stupidicus Aug 2013 #130
railsback Aug 2013 #119
Jakes Progress Aug 2013 #122
blackspade Aug 2013 #123
bvar22 Aug 2013 #290
H2O Man Aug 2013 #124
Politicub Aug 2013 #127
morningfog Aug 2013 #137
niyad Aug 2013 #140
GP6971 Aug 2013 #146
Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #152
ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #154
OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #155
Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #165
davidpdx Aug 2013 #174
pauliedangerously Aug 2013 #159
frylock Aug 2013 #160
LittleGirl Aug 2013 #161
caseymoz Aug 2013 #163
Celefin Aug 2013 #257
OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #167
20score Aug 2013 #169
darkangel218 Aug 2013 #178
WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #191
William769 Aug 2013 #172
Little Star Aug 2013 #255
MNBrewer Aug 2013 #173
myrna minx Aug 2013 #176
LineLineReply .
darkangel218 Aug 2013 #179
tblue Aug 2013 #183
20score Aug 2013 #190
myrna minx Aug 2013 #195
MisterP Aug 2013 #218
myrna minx Aug 2013 #252
Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #224
bvar22 Aug 2013 #286
Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #293
idwiyo Aug 2013 #193
Little Star Aug 2013 #254
TheKentuckian Aug 2013 #196
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #208
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #247
WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #202
Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #205
Name removed Aug 2013 #206
ArcticFox Aug 2013 #214
NealK Aug 2013 #235
Why Syzygy Aug 2013 #236
NCTraveler Aug 2013 #242
Celefin Aug 2013 #260
CBGLuthier Aug 2013 #244
Octafish Aug 2013 #251
Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #256
4Q2u2 Aug 2013 #267
Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #258
malthaussen Aug 2013 #265
Dash87 Aug 2013 #266
Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #268
Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #274
Safetykitten Aug 2013 #275
KansDem Aug 2013 #276
G_j Aug 2013 #280
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #284
KamaAina Aug 2013 #285
bvar22 Aug 2013 #292
joeybee12 Aug 2013 #297
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2013 #302
Rex Aug 2013 #305
Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #308
Jake2413 Aug 2013 #306
Please login to view edit histories.