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The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
7. Traitor and treason have very specific meanings in the USA
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 08:46 PM
Aug 2013

and Manning was not convicted of treason. He was cleared off aiding the enemy.

The pilot who killed all those people is a piece of shit. Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #1
And then Private Manning negated that heroic act by doing the mass file dumps jmowreader Aug 2013 #157
Working against dictatorial regimes? Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #168
Manning doesn't live in a dictatorial regime. n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #227
Authoritarian, yes. Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #228
It's not possible for any of us to answer. pnwmom Aug 2013 #229
When you play with fire, you can get burned. Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #269
Why? Because we have a long history of conflict with Russia, that's why. pnwmom Aug 2013 #281
Because everyone does it. Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #282
No, but some of the people the State Department works with do jmowreader Aug 2013 #287
Since you asked, there's a major difference between Manning and Dick Cheney. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #264
what pilot are you talking about? hfojvt Aug 2013 #171
Chelsea Manning revealed the video tape slaughter of civilians, including two Reuters journalists myrna minx Aug 2013 #189
I remembered that one hfojvt Aug 2013 #217
The war crimes... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #230
not having actually read the Geneva Conventions hfojvt Aug 2013 #234
OMG! Enthusiast Aug 2013 #243
Yes...and the invasion itself was illegal deutsey Aug 2013 #250
OMG indeed. Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #262
I find it more strange hfojvt Aug 2013 #298
A treaty is a treaty. Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #304
Yep. I remember how the Nazis 'treated' our servicemen COLGATE4 Aug 2013 #270
That was a well known exception. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #278
Except in WWII when you were caught fighting... EX500rider Aug 2013 #300
There are always atrocities. You're against the Geneva Convention? Enthusiast Aug 2013 #307
Very for battlefield rules....esp the wearing of uniforms while fighting.. EX500rider Aug 2013 #309
Which God would that be? hfojvt Aug 2013 #295
Oh come on... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #263
when it comes to war I think there should only be one rule hfojvt Aug 2013 #294
+1 oldhippie Aug 2013 #301
Like it or not PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #2
Manning has asked to be referred to as Chelsea leftstreet Aug 2013 #3
Thats not going to happen in Historic NY Aug 2013 #129
Military prison isn't the same as civilian leftstreet Aug 2013 #131
He's neither a hero nor a traitor. He is an actual whistleblower. JaneyVee Aug 2013 #4
Leaker might be more accurate. ucrdem Aug 2013 #12
I think you are confusing motive with knowledge... cascadiance Aug 2013 #38
Ellsberg knew what he was leaking because he helped write it. Manning didn't. nt ucrdem Aug 2013 #48
And AFAIK, Ellsberg made no money off his release, neither did Manning. Nor did Ellsberg's helpers, freshwest Aug 2013 #114
How could he be a "whistleblower" when he wasn't Cha Aug 2013 #36
I see your point, but by definition of whistleblower he actually uncovered JaneyVee Aug 2013 #53
If only Manning had just whistelblowed through the correct channels.. Cha Aug 2013 #73
I agree. It's sad because he obviously has psychological problems and needs help, JaneyVee Aug 2013 #77
The channels are a JOKE! Sibel Edmonds would LAUGH you in the face. She tried that way... cascadiance Aug 2013 #93
NO, they are not!! Manning wouldn't be looking at 35 fucking years. Cha Aug 2013 #98
You are confusing prosecuting whistleblowers with prosecuting REAL wrongdoers they expose! cascadiance Aug 2013 #104
Watch this one Enthusiast Aug 2013 #249
+1 progressoid Aug 2013 #261
A different site! burnodo Aug 2013 #5
yup... my 1st thought. alittlelark Aug 2013 #133
+1 The little creep knew the consequences of his actions and chose doc03 Aug 2013 #6
creep? burnodo Aug 2013 #8
twerp? michigandem58 Aug 2013 #10
hero? burnodo Aug 2013 #16
convicted... period DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #22
criminality determined by the state being the only determinant factor burnodo Aug 2013 #28
plenty of people think he was guilty, just not the State DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #33
well, then burnodo Aug 2013 #40
Then is Nelson Mandela the leader of South Africa? He was a "criminal" and... cascadiance Aug 2013 #74
Well said. zeemike Aug 2013 #149
Perfectly said. Starry Messenger Aug 2013 #213
Our country is nothing like apartheid South Africa treestar Aug 2013 #279
The point is that just because our legal system says he's guilty doesn't mean it "ends" now... cascadiance Aug 2013 #283
Our country is so good it even has a whistleblower Protection Act treestar Aug 2013 #310
And it is "so good" that these whistleblower "protection" acts DON'T protect security whistleblowers cascadiance Aug 2013 #311
Did you mean "not just the State" dgauss Aug 2013 #102
it doesn't matter, I sent out a 5 alarm to the fire department DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #136
Hardly full blaze... elias7 Aug 2013 #194
Not full blaze? I saw someone here on DU claiming Manning should win the Nobel Prize DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #198
With talk like that - Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #219
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #239
And no one is ever wrongly convicted. n/t Orsino Aug 2013 #288
Traitor and treason have very specific meanings in the USA The Second Stone Aug 2013 #7
Don't sweat the details. Savannahmann Aug 2013 #14
I also don't get the 'traitor to his country' phrase. It's more of a political term than legal one. freshwest Aug 2013 #135
Nice diagnosis, Dr Frist Fumesucker Aug 2013 #9
Not a traitor zipplewrath Aug 2013 #11
I'm no Manning fan, but "treason" has a specific meaning Recursion Aug 2013 #13
Piss off! n/t whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #15
+1 leftstreet Aug 2013 #17
+2 donheld Aug 2013 #231
Whatever he is, or isn't, we are in dire need of more like him. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #18
I see nothing wrong with telling the world that a part of your country is barbaric. BlueJazz Aug 2013 #19
There ya' go. +1 n/t Smarmie Doofus Aug 2013 #184
He was badly used by Assange and others, no doubt about that. ucrdem Aug 2013 #20
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #197
Blah, blah, blah, time of war, blah, blah, blah. Vashta Nerada Aug 2013 #21
Blah, blah, blah... he was CONVICTED for his criminal actions DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #23
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #182
WOW.. your post about guards is revealing DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #238
We are not at war ArcticFox Aug 2013 #216
That would be Chelsea, okay? Small thing to many. HUGE thing to her. Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #24
Written before the change n/t michigandem58 Aug 2013 #30
Here at DU, the "edit post" function works really well. Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #43
So fix it, then. Iggo Aug 2013 #245
Well now you know. Why not edit your frigging OP?.... Little Star Aug 2013 #253
Like it or not, most people on this site know you are a right-winger Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #25
rec PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #35
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #44
+1000 RetroLounge Aug 2013 #62
Chelsea Manning's expressed purpose was to bash the Obama administration which s/he despised. ucrdem Aug 2013 #65
We can see through your act as well, you constantly smear the left Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #71
"Expressed" means s/he said it, and Manning said it, in May 2010 ucrdem Aug 2013 #86
That does not say what you claim it does, not even close Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #92
It's a direct quotation. Your agreement doesn't make it any less a RW bash. nt ucrdem Aug 2013 #95
Yes, it is a direct quote that says nothing like you claimed it said Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #101
He wanted to embarrass Hillary who was Obama's Secretary of State. He did. ucrdem Aug 2013 #107
The quote shows she wanted to make the info available to the public Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #111
But that isn't what she said. It's what you want to believe she said. nt ucrdem Aug 2013 #118
Actually she did say it... Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #125
"Hilary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats ... are going to have a heart attack" ucrdem Aug 2013 #128
Still don't see anything about her purpose being to "bash Obama" Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #132
Manning's intent was to embarrass the Obama administration by revealing private diplomatic cables. ucrdem Aug 2013 #134
blah, blah, blah, crap, crap, crap blackspade Aug 2013 #141
I'm quoting Manning's own private expression of his/her intent. ucrdem Aug 2013 #145
Thanks underscoring my point. blackspade Aug 2013 #148
Likewise. nt ucrdem Aug 2013 #153
Dream on. blackspade Aug 2013 #187
You have made it clear you have no interest in evidence Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #143
The evidence doesn't support your views and you don't like it. Sorry about that. nt ucrdem Aug 2013 #150
That quote has always shattered the "whistleblower" meme Number23 Aug 2013 #210
And that, in your subject line, was the real crime wasn't it? Union Scribe Aug 2013 #166
Yes and no. ucrdem Aug 2013 #299
Yeah, just marginalize people who don't agree with you shenmue Aug 2013 #110
Have you read this person's posts? He is constantly marginalizing anyone who is to the left of him Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #120
Transparent as hell - Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #220
I like you Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #291
I don't condone it, either. But, at least Manning is Cha Aug 2013 #26
Sooooooo Showden should subject himself to the criminal mistreatment of Manning burnodo Aug 2013 #31
snowden's a coward. end of story. Cha Aug 2013 #34
Snowden is a hero. end of story. former9thward Aug 2013 #39
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #42
Coming from a green/snow worhipper.. big fucking surprise. Cha Aug 2013 #47
Bush and Cheney were war criminals...Barack Obama decided to ognore that burnodo Aug 2013 #51
My bad.. I forgot Asshat.. Cha Aug 2013 #67
doesn't clear Obama from being a war criminal burnodo Aug 2013 #75
By what legal definition is Obama a "war criminal"? ucrdem Aug 2013 #94
Bush, Cheney...war criminals burnodo Aug 2013 #100
I repeat: By what legal definition is Obama a war criminal? ucrdem Aug 2013 #103
war criminal burnodo Aug 2013 #109
Per "a private organization set up and chartered under Malaysian law." I see. ucrdem Aug 2013 #117
..... and perilously close to impeachment, apparently. Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #115
Poor kid. It is a hell of a process. Best wishes to her. Still has many years to get things right. freshwest Aug 2013 #192
Yes! I've read..and hope it's right.. that she could be out in Cha Aug 2013 #204
I'm sure she will. freshwest Aug 2013 #222
Spot on! liberal N proud Aug 2013 #27
For some rationalization is the key to happiness. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #29
We are not at war ArcticFox Aug 2013 #221
How does an leftynyc Aug 2013 #271
really? ArcticFox Aug 2013 #303
Yeah, well... 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2013 #32
He was not even charged with being a traitor. former9thward Aug 2013 #37
Liar! (Both you and your sources) - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #41
What? No People's View link today? neverforget Aug 2013 #45
Sure is michigandem58 Aug 2013 #52
the site he links to appears to be a poor man's People's View Enrique Aug 2013 #61
But I'm told the People's View author despises Obama michigandem58 Aug 2013 #69
It is a troll site, trolls often take both sides of an issue Bjorn Against Aug 2013 #81
if his goal is making Obama supporters look like assholes Enrique Aug 2013 #89
Interesting analysis! michigandem58 Aug 2013 #112
Hit and run flame bait troll. morningfog Aug 2013 #139
That's the worst kind davidpdx Aug 2013 #170
me? neverforget Aug 2013 #185
No, the OP. morningfog Aug 2013 #186
No problem. I didn't think so but you never know nowadays neverforget Aug 2013 #188
Since Nuremberg (at least).... dtom67 Aug 2013 #46
+1 SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #156
So is Dick Cheney, but we don't see him being sentenced to rot in prison for 35 years. Th1onein Aug 2013 #49
Please provide evidence of legal treason or STFU n/t arcane1 Aug 2013 #50
Given your laser-like focus on the law michigandem58 Aug 2013 #57
I expected that non-reply. arcane1 Aug 2013 #87
like it or not, I don't give a rat's buttocks about your opposition to transparancy.... mike_c Aug 2013 #54
Like it or not, your continued presence on DU burnodo Aug 2013 #55
Says the guy.... Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #121
Holy cow. ucrdem Aug 2013 #126
I know. I just about died when I saw that post. 9 hidden posts in 4 little months Number23 Aug 2013 #211
Bizarre, no? Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #226
Make that 24. lamp_shade Aug 2013 #273
Yeah, and Mi Lai wasn't shit Link Speed Aug 2013 #56
A traitor to you and your authoritarian surveillance government perhaps. dkf Aug 2013 #58
Bullshit. 99Forever Aug 2013 #59
Treason is morally neutral. Its morality is determined entirely by who's being betrayed. dairydog91 Aug 2013 #60
A teabagger would believe that, yes RetroLounge Aug 2013 #63
Our elected representatives are traitors. Almost all of them. mick063 Aug 2013 #64
+100000 forestpath Aug 2013 #177
I'm reccing because that article has new information. But I don't think he's a traitor or hero. freshwest Aug 2013 #66
+1 JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #70
Some good writers on that blog. I know that you are more knowledgeable on this national freshwest Aug 2013 #200
A well thought-out, level headed statement. Refreshing to see. lumpy Aug 2013 #151
Thanks for the comment. See you around. freshwest Aug 2013 #203
Good post, fresh. Cha Aug 2013 #232
One could guess by reading some of the responses how many have loved ones, 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #68
+1 MH1 Aug 2013 #116
And you would be wrong. blackspade Aug 2013 #138
She was neither charged with, nor convicted of "treason." truebluegreen Aug 2013 #142
I did, and I'm glad she decided to expose this shit. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #144
I wore a uniform for six years at the height of the cold war. mick063 Aug 2013 #158
Never been in combat have you where rules no longer apply. 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #180
For me, it is about defending the Constitution mick063 Aug 2013 #207
thank you on every level ArcticFox Aug 2013 #225
The oath you take in the military is not to defend the USA. zeemike Aug 2013 #164
Did you read what you wrote??????????? LOL! 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #181
Well I did not write the oath. zeemike Aug 2013 #248
My military service was just as important as yours, and I think you couldn't be more wrong. 20score Aug 2013 #175
Wow, really, and you also couldn't be more wrong but carry on. 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #201
So to you, it's patriotic to cover up for war crimes? Who is the "traitor"? The one who commits the myrna minx Aug 2013 #199
My moral code? My code was always to protect my men to the bitter end. 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #209
Hey, I believe in the Geneva Convention. I believe in convicting war criminals and liars who myrna minx Aug 2013 #212
Really when I see GWB, Cheney and the rest of them on trial then I will believe you. 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #215
Support my country, right or wrong ArcticFox Aug 2013 #223
As I have said, I don't undertand the military mind. There is an oath they take that is significant. freshwest Aug 2013 #233
Soldiers don't usually get to pick their wars or their battles. If anything leaks out that 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #237
Well. this is what I wrote the last time there was a major mess about soldiers on a DU thread: freshwest Aug 2013 #240
I also replied on that thread and here is what I said then.... 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #241
Yeah because the chain of command has proven sooo competent in uncovering war crimes. Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #259
The Royalists and Tories called the Colonial insurgents "Traitors" too. bvar22 Aug 2013 #72
Right on! nt Enthusiast Aug 2013 #246
Like it or not, he exposed war crimes. Matariki Aug 2013 #76
Did he attempt to expose these war crimes before releasing the cables? Travis_0004 Aug 2013 #82
I don't believe his cables threatened anyone burnodo Aug 2013 #91
Like it or not, Manning is not a traitor... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #78
Should people with overdue library books get a death sentence? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #79
The White House didn't leftynyc Aug 2013 #272
"And they would never answer that question." MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #277
Big deal leftynyc Aug 2013 #296
That's just fucking wrong. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #80
Agreed! NaturalHigh Aug 2013 #83
"he never seemed to fit in" Babel_17 Aug 2013 #84
Bradley Manning is a traitor in the same way that you are a progressive. The Link Aug 2013 #85
+100 truebluegreen Aug 2013 #147
Sieg heil... TheProgressive Aug 2013 #88
Folks who oppose authoritarianism often "struggle" in such a society - TBF Aug 2013 #90
No, he isnt a traitor. darkangel218 Aug 2013 #96
I don't agree. geckosfeet Aug 2013 #97
So let me get this straight. Initech Aug 2013 #99
He was a traitor for breaking faith with the regime that trusted him. Orsino Aug 2013 #289
Thank God it passed! Cerridwen Aug 2013 #105
heh. SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #162
Agreed customerserviceguy Aug 2013 #106
Thank you. shenmue Aug 2013 #108
I see backwards thinking shows up even here now and then damnedifIknow Aug 2013 #113
no, rightwingnuts don't have a monopoly on much stupidicus Aug 2013 #130
Treason is bit rough railsback Aug 2013 #119
Chelsea will be remembered for her bravery. Jakes Progress Aug 2013 #122
Like it or Not, that is just your opinion blackspade Aug 2013 #123
An "opinion" that tells us a lot about the OP himself .. bvar22 Aug 2013 #290
gosh H2O Man Aug 2013 #124
The trans and homophobia is out of line Politicub Aug 2013 #127
Oh look, troll trolling. morningfog Aug 2013 #137
like it or not, many on this board find your posts tedious and BORING beyond belief. some, on the niyad Aug 2013 #140
What I want to know is GP6971 Aug 2013 #146
Second time: It is C-H-E-L-S-E-A Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #152
No she's not. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #154
When you enlist in the armed services of the US, an officer reads you the Articles of War OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #155
You are correct, of course Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #165
Well put davidpdx Aug 2013 #174
I don't think she's a traitor pauliedangerously Aug 2013 #159
i don't like you, and Manning wasn't charged with treason. try and keep up, mkay? frylock Aug 2013 #160
too bad for you LittleGirl Aug 2013 #161
I'm sorry I don't have any sympathy . . . caseymoz Aug 2013 #163
+1 Celefin Aug 2013 #257
Manning is a traitor OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #167
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #169
+1 million! darkangel218 Aug 2013 #178
I'd leave it. There's a cruelty to these OPs... WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #191
Like it or not, Chelsea is a patriot who took a bullet for the rest of us. nt William769 Aug 2013 #172
+100000000000000000000000 Little Star Aug 2013 #255
No, he really isn't a traitor MNBrewer Aug 2013 #173
You and your fellow travelers should be ashamed for both your bigotry and right wing BS. myrna minx Aug 2013 #176
. darkangel218 Aug 2013 #179
Hot dang, myrna minx! tblue Aug 2013 #183
Thanks! Great job! Wish I had thought of adding other... travelers/@$R$^&^$% to my post. 20score Aug 2013 #190
I'm assuming that the fellow travelers of this OP have watched the "classified" video myrna minx Aug 2013 #195
alert results MisterP Aug 2013 #218
Thanks for posting the results and thanks to the jury. myrna minx Aug 2013 #252
Oh look - Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #224
The TRUTH will set us free!!! bvar22 Aug 2013 #286
Like Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #293
Your support for LGBTQ rights is so great, you can't even tell the difference between been gay and idwiyo Aug 2013 #193
+1 Little Star Aug 2013 #254
Wrong again. Factually, morally, constitutionally, legally, spiritually. Incorrect. TheKentuckian Aug 2013 #196
It's shameful, as is the number of DUers reccing this utter shite. HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #208
It serves a purpose. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #247
Awesome. Another Crap Blog for DU to chew up and spit out. WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #202
Dear author, you are an idiot, one useful to war criminals. n/t Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #205
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #206
you are a fool ArcticFox Aug 2013 #214
No she's not a traitor. NealK Aug 2013 #235
What is the difference between Manning and this guy > Why Syzygy Aug 2013 #236
I have the ability to think she is not a hero... NCTraveler Aug 2013 #242
Thanks for your nuanced post Celefin Aug 2013 #260
No, she is a criminal, but not a traitor CBGLuthier Aug 2013 #244
That's what they said on television, too. Octafish Aug 2013 #251
I could respect your opinion that he is a traitor BUT! Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #256
His Defense 4Q2u2 Aug 2013 #267
What's the deal with all those fake "progressive" and "liberal" blogs you keep peddling? Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #258
Nope, not treasonous. malthaussen Aug 2013 #265
The "support the troops!" trump card is lame at this point. Dash87 Aug 2013 #266
War criminals go free, those who expose them get jailed. Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #268
How you only have 1 hidden post is beyond me Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #274
She will always be a patriot and hero. History will show it. You think only bad people are in jail? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #275
So are Bush and Cheney. What's your point? KansDem Aug 2013 #276
This message was self-deleted by its author G_j Aug 2013 #280
Manning was not even charged with treason, much less convicted of treason, so this is false. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #284
*Chelsea* Manning was acquitted of aiding the enemy. KamaAina Aug 2013 #285
I guess it is a blessing in disguise that... bvar22 Aug 2013 #292
More homophobic/transphobic garbage...are those the only sites you work for? joeybee12 Aug 2013 #297
You're not alone. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2013 #302
Like it or Not, I have to accept that you can post here. Rex Aug 2013 #305
I know - Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #308
Sorry Jake2413 Aug 2013 #306
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