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Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
204. Sure, but I don't think he ever claimed it was a documentary.
Wed Aug 7, 2013, 02:36 PM
Aug 2013

I thought he did a masterful job of presenting an alternate theory that was circulating -- and, in truth, do we REALLY know what happened on November 22, 1963? As long as I live, I won't trust the official version, and that has nothing to do with Oliver Stone's JFK.

There is always more than one side to every story. Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #1
"THE DECISION TO USE THE ATOMIC BOMB" *** LINK *** usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #41
See link in post 8. His book is discussed in that link. N/T GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #47
true ceonupe Aug 2013 #53
THank you jimlup Aug 2013 #116
Sometimes Oliver Stone challenges authority... louis-t Aug 2013 #202
Sure, but I don't think he ever claimed it was a documentary. Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #204
I've never seen anything that says to me.. louis-t Aug 2013 #210
It was in Truman's speech with the military base claim jakeXT Aug 2013 #2
Chilling audio clip. nt PufPuf23 Aug 2013 #3
Which was cut off in mid-sentence... michigandem58 Aug 2013 #13
More Japanese were killed in incendiary attacks on Tokyo Enthusiast Aug 2013 #4
America needed to prove it could be ruthless. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #5
The invasion of the home islands of Japans was estimated 10 - 1 losses, with the US losing Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #10
I had relatives who had prepared their wills and written their "I love you goodbye" letters MADem Aug 2013 #55
My Dad was also one of those people. PADemD Aug 2013 #62
My dad was also slated to be with the initial invasion force. tumtum Aug 2013 #118
I agree. n/t. okieinpain Aug 2013 #135
weren't those wills and letters pretty much stardard operating procedure dlwickham Aug 2013 #203
Yes; the wills were strongly suggested, the letters were encouraged, and one MADem Aug 2013 #208
I remember watching Saving Private Ryan and in one scene they were signing wills or something dlwickham Aug 2013 #225
Don't forget imposing sexual slavery on Korean women - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #117
Seriously. The USA had a reputation of being "nice" before WWII.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #153
There was a need to get WWII over with. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #160
The bomb didn't do that.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #169
WRONG again: There was no race. Patton was ordered to the let the Russians take Berlin first Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #181
Patton was a right wing asshole. Hooverville proved that. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #205
What does that have to do with anything? Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #211
It proves he was all bluster and didn't give a damn about his men. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #213
What does Patton have to do with the Asian Theater? Honestly, you're way off topic. Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #221
See any familiar names? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #223
Not a race to Berlin. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #189
Much of that is spin to make the Emperor look good. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #206
And yet, a few years later, the Soviets has nukes. And two Jews, the Rosenbergs, were blamed Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #165
Ask yourself why there was a deal to keep the Emperor in power. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #170
Deal? He was revered as a God. joshcryer Aug 2013 #171
Never occured to you that Japan surrendered to us because the Soviets would have,... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #172
Sure, sure. joshcryer Aug 2013 #173
History could have played out differently with Japan following China. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #174
Or North Korea... joshcryer Aug 2013 #175
China fell to the communists not because of WW2, but because of the corruption of the KMT and the Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #179
One of the more annoying talking points from BushCo was,.. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #201
What does that have to do with Hiroshima? Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #212
We always consider our version of history to be the only valid one. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #215
I consider the research done for my dissertataion valid, as do my professors Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #222
You can't picture Patton and MacArthur working together? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #224
The Soviets would have done nothing. They had ZERO sea invasion capability. N/T GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #191
Betcha they coulda hitched a ride. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #214
To be more exact, it was Prince Asaka that lead the Rape of Nanking, Hirohito's uncle. Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #177
Thanks. joshcryer Aug 2013 #178
The Emperor was NOT kept "in power". GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #192
Actually, those around him went with the story that he wanted peace for the good of his people.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #207
The mainland gains were ALREADY gone. The U.S. Navy had cut the shipping lines. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #216
Hook me up with your PhD dissertation when finished. joshcryer Aug 2013 #180
Will do. Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #183
At least they didn't make it to Yasukuni Shrine. joshcryer Aug 2013 #184
I live in South Korea davidpdx Aug 2013 #232
I'd like to read it as well davidpdx Aug 2013 #231
The Original SHOCK-N-AWE usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #42
The concept is as old as war AngryAmish Aug 2013 #66
Link? Android3.14 Aug 2013 #6
Oliver Stone's Untold History of the US burnodo Aug 2013 #7
see post #7 redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #11
Russia could not have invaded Japan. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #193
A very good historiography that sorts out the conflicting claims that are made... Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #8
reading now, everyone needs to read this imho , thank you nt steve2470 Aug 2013 #167
Then why did the Japanese surrender when they did? GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #9
From what I remember, in the documentary it is mentioned that... redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #15
Still need a navy to transport the troops, GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #16
I think the US was more afraid of the USSR having time to take all of China than Japan was of... JVS Aug 2013 #71
Yes. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #76
There are long-standing disputes between Russia and Japan over some northern islands 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #57
Not accurate telclaven Aug 2013 #74
The third bomb was ready in October. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #77
Yeah, that's what I remember telclaven Aug 2013 #78
These numbers are incorrect. hunter Aug 2013 #199
Oliver Stone is a guy who, when he hears hoofbeats, he thinks zebras, not horses. MADem Aug 2013 #58
They surrendered six days later michigandem58 Aug 2013 #12
not by implication, no. redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #14
Why do you ignore the Japanese Emperor own words? GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #17
I am not, I am pointing out that timing does not in itsself imply causation. redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #18
You are ignoring what Hirohito said. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #20
No.... redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #22
Try addressing what Hirohito said. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #23
I cannot address it, because I lack in dept knowledge of the broader situation. redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #27
Great broader knowledge isn't needed to understand Hirohito's speech. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #35
Hate to but in on a good argument, but that's not what the guy said. 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #60
I think his speech is very obvious at to his meaning. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #63
It's usually around here someone comes in and says Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #108
I always wondered why Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #19
Notice that they didn't surrender after the first one. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #21
And you believe everything a politician says? burnodo Aug 2013 #24
The facts speak for themselves.... paleotn Aug 2013 #29
and what makes you say that Stone is making something up? burnodo Aug 2013 #34
Because that's what he does for a living? cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #52
So no person in Hollywood is capable of telling the truth? burnodo Aug 2013 #87
And you believe a Hollywood flake? N/T GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #31
Hollywood flake? burnodo Aug 2013 #33
And you never believe anything a politician ever says?...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #94
considering history, I take everything a politician says with a grain of salt burnodo Aug 2013 #98
Republican? You're the one who quoted Cutis Lemay downthread... SidDithers Aug 2013 #102
So you believe what he said burnodo Aug 2013 #104
Truman was a Democrat... nt MADem Aug 2013 #136
No kidding burnodo Aug 2013 #166
Hirohito was a weak leader Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #25
"Artistic license" = Lie. N/T GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #32
That was argued.... paleotn Aug 2013 #28
I understand the logic, Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #36
In the context of WWII, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not extraordinary events hack89 Aug 2013 #43
The atomic bombs killed fewer people than the firebombing of Dresden or Tokyo Recursion Aug 2013 #46
Well, immediately at least. Probably not over the longer term thought. 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #75
My dad was a Marine in the pacific also, tumtum Aug 2013 #122
Whether the Japanese surrendered because of the bombings... Whiskeytide Aug 2013 #124
It wasn't Roosevelt who made the decision to use the bombs, tumtum Aug 2013 #126
Damn. I knew that. Whiskeytide Aug 2013 #130
Not Revisionism - Truman Lied visca Aug 2013 #26
See the link in post 8. It discusses that book. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #30
I do not understand why you insist that Hirohito was any more credible than anyone else involved. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #39
By surrendering he did prevent an invasion and accepted occupation. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #44
My friend, you are displaying the patience of Job and, for that, I salute you. - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #119
Allow me to associate myself with HardTimes99's remarks. MADem Aug 2013 #139
Thank You. N/T GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #146
And George Bush himself said Saddam Hussein had WMD's burnodo Aug 2013 #40
Because Hirohito was the one doing the surrendering. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #45
August 9th was also when the Soviets invaded Manchuria burnodo Aug 2013 #49
Manchuria isn't Japan. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #56
Manchuria WAS Japan, sort of JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2013 #182
AT that point in the war, Manchuria was ALREADY a lost cause for the Japanese. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #190
Manchuria is northeastern China. Nice geography there, buddy Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #112
Manchuria was occupied by the Japanese burnodo Aug 2013 #185
Those troops were already cut off by the U.S. Navy. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #194
Manchuria is northeastern China and Japan should never have occupied it in the first place Nanjing to Seoul Aug 2013 #195
well...they did...and...they were burnodo Aug 2013 #226
Manchuria is not Japan. tumtum Aug 2013 #125
This does not make the bomb the only available option Scootaloo Aug 2013 #79
According the Japanese Emperor Hirohito, it WAS the bomb that forced the end. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #90
Sure, but you're ignoring the point Scootaloo Aug 2013 #164
They had not offered surrender. You are badly misinformed. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #187
Monku itta tte shouganaiyo. AsahinaKimi Aug 2013 #37
Stone is full of it. The Link Aug 2013 #38
Of course it saved lives hack89 Aug 2013 #48
true but the strategic reason was to showcase our might to russia ceonupe Aug 2013 #54
No - the strategic reason was to end the war. hack89 Aug 2013 #59
Well before that point in the war civilians had become fair game. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #61
im not arguing you point ceonupe Aug 2013 #64
Would the world be a better place if we had allowed Germany and Japan to win? GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #69
no ceonupe Aug 2013 #81
Would the world be a better place if the Soviets had gained world domination? N/T GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #84
no on that point ceonupe Aug 2013 #91
So we needed to defeat Germany, Japan, and make Russia fear us. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #93
agree ceonupe Aug 2013 #95
Motivation is the easiest thing to argue zipplewrath Aug 2013 #50
No women in uniform? Your facts are WAAAAAY out of order! MADem Aug 2013 #73
I think he meant in direct combat roles. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #80
This is what I read...and that wasn't what he said. MADem Aug 2013 #88
The 19 million were all men zipplewrath Aug 2013 #132
Your comments were not accurate. We aren't talking about 12 ladies in a knitting circle. MADem Aug 2013 #134
They were not the 19 million zipplewrath Aug 2013 #142
So what? They were there. These are your words, read them again: MADem Aug 2013 #145
To what point? zipplewrath Aug 2013 #148
The "imprecision" as you call it, denies people who did the work MADem Aug 2013 #151
And had nothing to do with my point zipplewrath Aug 2013 #152
Look, when you misrepresent the facts, it has everything to do with your point. MADem Aug 2013 #154
Distinction looking for a difference zipplewrath Aug 2013 #158
No, and as I said, you are demonstrating your bias with your stubborn refusal to admit your error. MADem Aug 2013 #162
What prejudice? zipplewrath Aug 2013 #163
What this is about is your refusal to acknowledge that you said no women served in uniform. MADem Aug 2013 #168
They served in uniforms zipplewrath Aug 2013 #197
Please. Not all of your nineteen million were under combat arms. MADem Aug 2013 #198
I know zipplewrath Aug 2013 #200
My Uncle was slated to be part of the invasion of Japan. Javaman Aug 2013 #161
Curtis LeMay burnodo Aug 2013 #51
Ah Yes, Curtis Lemay, Barry Goldwater's VP pick way back when 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #65
so everyone you disagree with is discredited burnodo Aug 2013 #83
Technical Note: I think LeMay wanted to 'nuke' the Vietnamese back into the Stone Age (not HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #121
His opinion. Other generals held other opinions. N/t GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #67
Most of the generals at the time thought use of the bomb would be a mistake burnodo Aug 2013 #85
LeMay had a personal agenda hack89 Aug 2013 #68
Most of the large cities in Japan had been nearly destroyed burnodo Aug 2013 #82
That doesn't mean they were close to surrender. hack89 Aug 2013 #86
but they had been putting out peace feelers for months burnodo Aug 2013 #89
How could the Soviets invade with no sealift capability? GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #97
The Japanese government viewed the Soviets as potential mediators hack89 Aug 2013 #101
It is greatly encouraging to see the numerous DUers... GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #70
"Stone's revisionist agenda" burnodo Aug 2013 #100
Stone is a revisionist, and he pushes it in his movies. N/t GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #103
so you haven't seen the series burnodo Aug 2013 #105
It was enough to read reviews of his movies. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #106
Oliver Stone is a moran of the first degree telclaven Aug 2013 #72
actually, someone else wrote the documentary burnodo Aug 2013 #92
What happens when you clik "Spell Check"...??? CanSocDem Aug 2013 #96
"Clik" spell check? MADem Aug 2013 #99
It's not that Americans don't get 'irony'... CanSocDem Aug 2013 #107
The spelling of "moran" is an iconic thing, thanks to that photo... MADem Aug 2013 #115
I know all about that photo... CanSocDem Aug 2013 #120
Your uncertainty ("I just can't tell anymore") is understandable. I've recently become HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #128
Good to know about Poe... CanSocDem Aug 2013 #155
I think you can be safe in assuming that 99.9% of the time, it's being used in a MADem Aug 2013 #129
That might have been true... CanSocDem Aug 2013 #156
Well, you certainly didn't use the spell checker... MADem Aug 2013 #157
Who cares what Oliver Stone thinks about anything. closeupready Aug 2013 #109
Conspiracy theorists with a certain axe to grind. Throd Aug 2013 #110
Very definitely. closeupready Aug 2013 #113
Operation Downfall.. Javaman Aug 2013 #111
It is absolutely accurate jimlup Aug 2013 #114
The Japanese government knew exactly what happened at Hiroshima within hours. hack89 Aug 2013 #123
+1. MADem Aug 2013 #127
You are badly misinformed. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #131
+1 nt Javaman Aug 2013 #159
Oliver Stone's greatest cinima achievement was markiv Aug 2013 #133
Well, the "Greatest Generation" is dying off at a fast clip--he's figuring there's no one left to MADem Aug 2013 #138
i've never liked the term 'the greatest generation' markiv Aug 2013 #141
I liked it until Tom Brokaw started sucking it dry for an easy payday. MADem Aug 2013 #143
yup, that too, that dirtbag released it as pro-iraq war propaganda markiv Aug 2013 #144
On an unrelated -- well, slightly related -- note... MADem Aug 2013 #147
Thanks. I wasn't aware of those. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #149
this was a documentary for Showtime burnodo Aug 2013 #186
His Hiroshima/Japan Surrendering theory Nevernose Aug 2013 #196
I saw JFK. I trust Oliver Stone to tell the truth no matter what. cliffordu Aug 2013 #137
Thank GAWD MADem Aug 2013 #140
I'm waiting to see what Art Bell's analysis is. Dreamer Tatum Aug 2013 #150
So Oliver Stone is now the keeper of American history now? defacto7 Aug 2013 #176
Well said Egnever Aug 2013 #220
It's a movie, not a documentary. rl6214 Aug 2013 #188
"the bombs had no effect on the willingness of the Japanese to surrender"? Each and every Japanese? AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #209
By "the Japanese" we usually mean the Japanese gov't. N/T GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #217
Yep. And I suspect that not each and everyone in the gov't was ready to throw in the towel. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #219
This in a nutshell is whats wrong with this country Egnever Aug 2013 #218
says you! burnodo Aug 2013 #227
Yup says me. Egnever Aug 2013 #228
Brilliant! burnodo Aug 2013 #229
must be a really slow news day. madrchsod Aug 2013 #230
slow news...like the anniversary of Hiroshima? burnodo Aug 2013 #233
no...slow news about stone not hiroshima madrchsod Aug 2013 #238
This is a discussion board, after all burnodo Aug 2013 #246
Don't ever listen to Oliver Stone on history BainsBane Aug 2013 #234
Thanks Bain burnodo Aug 2013 #235
Who did? BainsBane Aug 2013 #236
Peter Kuznick burnodo Aug 2013 #237
If you want to know how that argument has been received BainsBane Aug 2013 #239
so, are we away from the "Oliver Stone" stuff? burnodo Aug 2013 #240
You just told me an actual historian wrote the script BainsBane Aug 2013 #241
well, people in this thread are shitting on Stone in an abject, offhand way burnodo Aug 2013 #243
Stone is a big boy, and plenty rich BainsBane Aug 2013 #244
Thanks burnodo Aug 2013 #245
Is it possible... krispos42 Aug 2013 #242
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