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In reply to the discussion: Glenn Greenwald: NSA Can Store A BILLION CELL PHONE CALLS Every Day [View all]intaglio
(8,170 posts)36. First of your problems
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects
This phrase does not at present cover meta. Meta is published information, just as the envelope on a letter is published, and as such is not subject to the restriction you propose. Placing such a restriction on meta would fatally damage the ability of the internet to function just as it would damage the Postal Service and private delivery companies if you place a restriction on an envelope or the wrapping of a package being examined.
What you might say is that such restriction should only apply to Government, but the 4th does not apply only to government and extending it's reach would harm private individuals and businesses.
The next problem is that meta can then be used to justify "searches and seizures" (reading/listening and storage) of the contents of the phone call or e-mail. An exact parallel is that examination of an envelope can justify the search and seizure of the envelope's contents. Extreme examples show this:
1) a letter to be sent by airmail to Saif al-Adel at an address in Iran;Do you really propose that legislation halt judicial authorisations to search and seize these documents?
2) a package, addressed to the President with a return address of Michael Musmusculus at The Retreat, Orlando, Florida 32821.
I do not say that the law should not be strengthened but moaning about the unconstitutionality or illegality of the current actions hides the real problem - a need for modern laws and rulings
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I think what we are suggesting is that the NSA adhere to the 4th amendment.
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2013
#2
And we can have that discussion without elevating a RW libertarian douchebag to the status of a hero
baldguy
Jun 2013
#3
You need more talking points. You left out China, Russia, Ecuador, and Cuba.
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2013
#5
Did all of those 46% attend the briefings and such about the NSA or its programs et al?
Bodhi BloodWave
Jun 2013
#90
Collins' argument was that you can't request a briefing for things you don't know.
Pholus
Jun 2013
#117
I'm sure you have as much disdain and rejection of the neocon/Bush surveillance state
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#44
Obama ended the NSAs abuses under the Bush Regime, & forced them to get warrants for their wire taps
baldguy
Jun 2013
#52
On behalf of The Carlyle Group, Booz Allen, Academia, Halliburton, Beltek, Stratfor, HB Gary etc
think
Jun 2013
#151
"If the president does it, that means it is not illegal." ~Richard M. Nixon.
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#164
So, what you really want is to impeach Barack Obama. And why not Joe Biden while you're at it.
baldguy
Jun 2013
#166
Funny he didn't mention it. Funny he didn't understand what a secure FTP server is.
randome
Jun 2013
#183
I hadn't consider that the NDAA clause could be used to indefinitely detain Snowden either.
think
Jun 2013
#184
If: I have a problem with Obama's UNCONSTITUTIONAL acts, Then: I want Boenher for president.
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#170
Thank you, what an asshole to alert and ASSume. I =do= vote for democrats.
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#185
No we cant. That's the whole point. People have tried to "have that discussion" in the past and
rhett o rick
Jun 2013
#56
What's childish is supposedly rational, supposedly liberal people trying desperately
baldguy
Jun 2013
#59
Mass domestic surveillance has not gone through a 4th amendment challenge.
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2013
#10
ah of course. Arguably neither is the information passing over the internet, right?
Warren Stupidity
Jun 2013
#17
There are entire volumes of laws and rules preventing that information from being shared.
randome
Jun 2013
#77
I'm no law or privacy scholar. I have no idea what laws are in place for school records.
randome
Jun 2013
#92
Recording of calls and storing them for a possible evidence in a criminal case without a warrant
boston bean
Jun 2013
#106
HIPAA prevents the reporting of medical records. No such statute applies to telephone metadata.
OilemFirchen
Jun 2013
#136
+1. anything that's on a computer is theirs. and since they're corraling us into putting
HiPointDem
Jun 2013
#180
It's the digital age. Data is never 'given back', it's copied and then deleted.
randome
Jun 2013
#116
But you'll trust Verizon to know all that. They don't have laws preventing misuse.
randome
Jun 2013
#35
Just because there is a law doesnt mean it doesnt violate the Constitution. I suggest you read the
rhett o rick
Jun 2013
#64
Well, it wasn't a Communist who told me this, and my hearing was quite good at the time...! nt
MADem
Jun 2013
#114
Now this report by Greenwald shows he does not have any concept of what he is
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#27
Greenwald says, ""It doesn't mean that they're listening to every call, it means they're storing
Luminous Animal
Jun 2013
#32
Do we have only a billion people in the US who has a cell phone? How many cell phone customers do
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#49
Ummm, the US population is 313.9 million. A factor of 3 smaller than a "billion"
Pholus
Jun 2013
#51
The 2014 NDAA creates a new complex dedicated to the analysis of stored data and metadata.
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#38
How long do you expect a call to last, it does not add up. Longer calls means more storage is taken
Thinkingabout
Jun 2013
#53
Would you give the government permission to put a camera in every room in your house
Bolo Boffin
Jun 2013
#29
Once again, he could have read about Bush doing this and MORE here on DU many years ago!
Coyotl
Jun 2013
#37
But...but greenwald is a something or other! This means everything he says doesn't matter!
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#42
Prudence Dictates That One Must Make The Assumption That Everything Will Be Recorded
cantbeserious
Jun 2013
#60
Any Smart Malcontent Would Surely Avoid All Forms Of Electronic Communication
cantbeserious
Jun 2013
#75
Hasn't Echelon already been intercepting / storing over 3 billion / day for decades?
HiddenAgenda63
Jun 2013
#94
And the authoritarians break out their goto talking point: We already knew that!
DesMoinesDem
Jun 2013
#130