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frazzled

(18,402 posts)
20. For me the cognitive dissonance is about ...
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:52 PM
Jun 2013

The past 11 1/2 years. I've been following these issues since the beginning with TIA, when we first learned about metadata and such. Then TIA was scuttled because it was rogue and scary, and the operations were transferred into the intelligence agencies. We knew all that. But the Bush administration refused to accede to much oversight or any warrants altogether. And we knew there were government presences at Google and such. We knew all this. It was pretty disturbing then; and yet the hue and cry here was ten times less than we're getting now.

Then, in 2008, when the Democrats took the House, a lot of changes were made, fairly positive ones. (Read Nancy Pelosi's recently released chart detailing the improvements made by Congress:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/148767817/Chart-On-Surveillance-Oversight-Prepared-By-Nancy-Pelosi-For-Democratic-house-Members

In addition, towards the end of the Bush administration I began to realize that nothing bad had really happened on a large public scale as a result of this spying. We didn't turn into a fascist state where people were being imprisoned for their beliefs. Sure, there were a few bad calls and cases, but I'm talking about the kind of police state activity that would make us feel like we were living in Argentina during the Dirty War, when masses of ordinary citizens were disappeared, and tortured or killed. For their beliefs.

What Snowden has revealed is not new to me and should not be new to anyone who's been paying attention. And that anyone should be surprised or shocked that the United States intelligence agencies ... um, actually spy on other countries. Well, that's just stupid: that's what they do.

The outrage seems more manufactured--a sort of crazy amalgam post-Occupy aspirations, Tea Party "give me liberty" libertarianism (really, DU feels like Rand Paul Underground more than Democratic Underground these days), romantic notions of Tahrir Square, and the whole Anonymous, Wikileaks hacking culture.

And here's what I feel: I'm way more scared of these wholly nontransparent, outside the law hacking outfits and individuals than I am of anything the government is doing here at home. I don't see them as whistleblowers or heroic in any way.

The cognitive dissonance I feel has to do with the "yay Russia and Venezuela, boo America" attitudes I see all over the place here. I mean really, are you freaking kidding me?

Maybe it's all because I remember how enthused with this kind of political romanticism I was when I was younger. I wore a Mao button everywhere on my lapel and thought the Cultural Revolution was swell. Until I met people whose lives had been decimated by that regime and its policies. I felt ashamed at my naivete, and I swore to be much more circumspect and not to led ideological factors sway my responses. No, I'm not one whit more conservative than I was then: I'm just as liberal, but more realistic, more cautious in hewing to romantic ideological trappings.

What saddens me here is that I see so much wrongheaded, mixed up, misinformed grandstanding lately, and so much illiberal thought that thinks itself to be the epitome of liberalism. I'm dumbfounded by it. Fortunately, out in the real world, I'm not seeing any of this romanticism about l'Affaire Snowden at all.

Snowden DU Cognitive Dissonance Syndrome [View all] NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 OP
I'd still hate him if he were skewering Bush. mhatrw Jun 2013 #1
Did you hate Risen then? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #36
Or, perhaps Edward Snowden is neither entirely heroic nor entirely treasonous. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #2
No! Pick a side! We're at war! Deep13 Jun 2013 #31
I don't have a thing against classified documents in every case treestar Jun 2013 #3
SOFA NoOneMan Jun 2013 #4
Your last point is interesting, though I suspect Snowden would still have revealed... NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #5
How did you feel about the leaks during the Bush administration? Did you agree that the NYT sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #37
I think there is some cognitive dissonance in place. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #6
No, I the majority bashing Snowden are just as sincere as those advocating his situation still_one Jun 2013 #7
Do you honestly believe that China wasn't already aware of the US hacking? NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #11
That is not the point. He went to a foreign nation to reveal our secrets. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #17
"He went to a foreign nation to reveal our secrets." And your dog told you that. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #34
I think it is clear what he did. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #55
I find it interesting that you are so definite on knowing what he did and why. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #59
It is not the point, and I do not believe they were aware of Hong Kong being hacked. My main point still_one Jun 2013 #22
Not the specifics creeksneakers2 Jun 2013 #29
So you were against the leaks during the Bush years then, the ones that caused the accusation sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #38
Anyone who thinks Snowden is a hero or a villain needs to read fewer comics cthulu2016 Jun 2013 #8
Yep, totally agree NoOneMan Jun 2013 #10
I agree that who cares if he is a hero or a traitor, but his credibility does matter JaneyVee Jun 2013 #14
But the documents are not nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #25
You are 100 percent correct. NSA is the story morningfog Jun 2013 #15
They took a few futile shots at the documents, then changed tactics to shooting the messenger. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #19
That's me all the way ecstatic Jun 2013 #30
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #9
And you actually complained about being called names? treestar Jun 2013 #13
Those other names were made up bs RobertEarl Jun 2013 #18
I don't trust him. That does not mean I agree with what the government is doing. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #12
What about our leaders who swore to uphold the constitution? dkf Jun 2013 #26
I agree that they owe us something. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #27
He made a choice to put the collective above himself. Most people don't have the guts. dkf Jun 2013 #28
I respect your opinion but I disagree with it. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #33
Sadly I now trust him more than our Elected leaders. dkf Jun 2013 #50
Bingo. That's the point. Thankyou. lindysalsagal Jun 2013 #58
Forget Snowden, do you trust Ms. Plame and Mr. Wilson? nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #35
Do I trust them? I think they were wronged by the government. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #56
Not sure that some people marions ghost Jun 2013 #16
For me the cognitive dissonance is about ... frazzled Jun 2013 #20
Good post. nt Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #23
Thank you for mentioning TIA tavalon Jun 2013 #40
Excellent post. Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #41
Thank you. SunSeeker Jun 2013 #44
The police crackdown on the Occupiers was pretty horrible. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #46
I agree that the romanticism is a DU thing flamingdem Jun 2013 #47
I really like your post, although I disagree with substantial portions of it. Since you mention HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #49
So you were carrying pictures of Chairman Mao? Fumesucker Jun 2013 #51
Well written BS marions ghost Jun 2013 #54
Good post. sagat Jun 2013 #57
Cognitive Dissonance has my vote... MrMickeysMom Jun 2013 #21
Thanks for this! n/t NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #24
I think there are several issues davidpdx Jun 2013 #32
I'm able to hold two views simultaneously, tavalon Jun 2013 #39
Well put! - nt HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #42
How could someone who is deliberately interfering with US diplomacy with Russia and China pnwmom Jun 2013 #43
How can anyone who contributes to corrupting democracy be viewed as a hero? JDPriestly Jun 2013 #48
Because he didn't "deliberately" interfere with it... MrMickeysMom Jun 2013 #52
+1 treestar Jun 2013 #53
We have people's hair on fire about a public training manual on security. The shark is jumped Recursion Jun 2013 #45
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