HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » When Men Hate Women: Fem... » Reply #153
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Response to BainsBane (Reply #147)

Thu Jun 20, 2013, 01:23 AM

153. UK is irrelevant because

gun crime, murder in general, was almost nonexistent before any ban. I lived in Japan, it is also irrelevant because of their culture. But, if I wanted to get an illegal gun in Japan, it isn't that hard if know the right people in the Yakusa. When I was there, there were a couple of folks that were court martialed for various crimes against the US, and turned over to the Japanese because they were buying guns made in illegal factories in Cebu, kind of like the ones in Pakistan where they make high quality guns with hand tools, and flipping them for 100 times to the Yakusa.


Let's look to Japan and the UK, in comparison to the US. The same link provides the numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Japan. 0.4 per 100k
UK. 1.2
USA 4.8
You have heard of post hoc ergo propter hoc? Cherry picking comes to mind. BTW, Iceland is 0.3, and has the gun ownership rate about the same as Florida. Norway is 0.6, and has a higher gun ownership rate. Minnesota and Manitoba are about the same.


The fact that Mexico is a failed state thanks to our insatiable consumption for drugs and arms dealing means that is not an example of what happens when firearms are banned. The density of firearms is high in the north of the country.

If you know the difference between secondary and primary sources, why do you site a secondary source that misrepresents the GAO report? Stratfor interprets the primary source in ways that satisfy gun zealots. The fact you can't be bothered to read the original report because you like what you see on the Stratfor website only speaks to your own lack of concern for the truth. The game of telephone has been so distorted members on this site now say there is proof 90% of guns in Mexico don't come from the US, which is obviously not the case. One need only read the introduction and subject headings of the GAO report to see that is false.
I think the opposite is true, most of Stratfor's customers don't give a rat's ass about guns. They care about security for their business interest. I have been following the issue in the Latin American media as well. They kind of back up Stratfor's analysis. You haven't shown me where their claims were false.

I never said El Paso equals white. However, race is a cultural construct. Firstly, Hispanic is not a race at all. It is ostensibly a linguistic categorization, but in this country has come to include those who speak Portuguese as well as Spanish. It's an awkward, forced category. Secondly, many Mexicans are considered white there, while we consider them a racial other here. El Paso, like any border town, has a mixture of people who identify as white and mestizo. The American side even has Anglos without any Mexican heritage, while the Mexican side has Indian migrants who come for work. That you don't see any Mexican or border resident as white is a function of your own cultural perception of race forged in that multicultural bastion, Wyoming. (No offense to your state. From all pictures I've seen, it looks astoundingly beautiful.)
When my grandparents were kids, half of the city's population were Chinese immigrants. I went to an intergrated school in the 1960s with Chinese decent, Hispanic, various European ethnics. The "pillars of society" of my hometown are mostly Italian Catholic and Chinese decent. Our public school system is very good and even a farming community like Farson has well paid and diverse teachers and state of the art stuff, because we tax shit out of coal and oil companies and spread the dollars equally, not expect districts to depend on local property taxes. The county sheriff when I was a kid had a Serbian surname that I couldn't pronounce and can't remember. I learned a lot in the Air Force. In other words, Wyoming is a lot more diverse than you give it credit for.


Your view of my education is meaningless. The only thing I can tell you have a solid background in is distortion of evidence for ideological purposes.
sorry, you are projecting. You are the one distorting evidence for ideological purpose. More accurately, reading more into it than it is there.

I fully admit to being prone to hyperbole on the gun issue, but I take analysis and use of evidence very seriously. Intellectual honesty and my own self respect demands it. Anyone can pull odd statistics together in ways that suit their purpose. To examine a problem in order to understand it, however, take respect for the truth and intellectual integrity. I know full well when I am being hyperbolic or inflammatory and when I am undertaking a rational examination of evidence. Given the fact I am a recent victim of gun violence, I think I have a right to take the issue personally.
Hyperbole is an understatement. You may be honest, but limited, as I explained before. You have to have complete information, and not take things at face value. Just because some government agency or corporation makes a claim doesn't make it true. One of the many things I learned in the military, like those those phantom WMDs and the F22 is a great deal for the tax payer. Never mind that pilots threatened an illegal strike because they are unsafe. Being inflammatory and rational is mutually exclusive. To understand it, you have to go out of your comfort zone, and risk the possibility that your preconceived ideas are wrong. As for your unfortunate experience, so you equate me, Maya Angelou, Jerry Brown, Green Storm Cloud, and other legal and legitimate gun owners with criminal predators. Sorry, that doesn't strike me as rational nor intellectually honest. I never said a gun ban caused Mexico's problem. It is a fact that Mexicans are in a situation where they can not legally defend themselves from drug gangs or their police lackeys.

I suggest you read this post for an El Paso resident's take on the issue. It's quite informative, and I think it makes a lot of sense. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023021983#post105
Response to: BainsBane (Reply #147)
Forum or Group: General Discussion (Forum)
Reply title:
I read it.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 244 replies Author Time Post
BainsBane Jun 2013 OP
niyad Jun 2013 #1
rl6214 Jun 2013 #2
SoCalDem Jun 2013 #19
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #91
datasuspect Jun 2013 #121
rl6214 Jun 2013 #127
datasuspect Jun 2013 #187
BainsBane Jun 2013 #3
Monkie Jun 2013 #6
BainsBane Jun 2013 #7
Monkie Jun 2013 #8
BainsBane Jun 2013 #10
Monkie Jun 2013 #11
BainsBane Jun 2013 #12
antigone382 Jun 2013 #26
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #29
BainsBane Jun 2013 #31
senseandsensibility Jun 2013 #4
BainsBane Jun 2013 #5
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #16
BainsBane Jun 2013 #17
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #18
BainsBane Jun 2013 #20
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #23
BainsBane Jun 2013 #36
BainsBane Jun 2013 #21
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #28
BainsBane Jun 2013 #38
Squinch Jun 2013 #41
zazen Jun 2013 #107
BainsBane Jun 2013 #130
siligut Jun 2013 #9
BainsBane Jun 2013 #14
gejohnston Jun 2013 #125
BainsBane Jun 2013 #128
gejohnston Jun 2013 #132
BainsBane Jun 2013 #134
gejohnston Jun 2013 #136
BainsBane Jun 2013 #139
gejohnston Jun 2013 #140
BainsBane Jun 2013 #147
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply UK is irrelevant because
gejohnston Jun 2013 #153
BainsBane Jun 2013 #157
gejohnston Jun 2013 #173
BainsBane Jun 2013 #183
BainsBane Jun 2013 #151
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #163
BainsBane Jun 2013 #168
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #178
gejohnston Jun 2013 #174
BainsBane Jun 2013 #184
gejohnston Jun 2013 #188
BainsBane Jun 2013 #220
gejohnston Jun 2013 #232
BainsBane Jun 2013 #233
gejohnston Jun 2013 #235
BainsBane Jun 2013 #237
BainsBane Jun 2013 #13
BainsBane Jun 2013 #15
hack89 Jun 2013 #30
BainsBane Jun 2013 #40
hack89 Jun 2013 #56
BainsBane Jun 2013 #57
hack89 Jun 2013 #58
BainsBane Jun 2013 #59
hack89 Jun 2013 #61
BainsBane Jun 2013 #63
hack89 Jun 2013 #67
BainsBane Jun 2013 #69
hack89 Jun 2013 #70
BainsBane Jun 2013 #72
hack89 Jun 2013 #73
BainsBane Jun 2013 #74
tammywammy Jun 2013 #76
hack89 Jun 2013 #77
BainsBane Jun 2013 #79
BainsBane Jun 2013 #75
hack89 Jun 2013 #78
BainsBane Jun 2013 #80
hack89 Jun 2013 #106
BainsBane Jun 2013 #129
tammywammy Jun 2013 #131
BainsBane Jun 2013 #149
hack89 Jun 2013 #133
BainsBane Jun 2013 #150
hack89 Jun 2013 #166
BainsBane Jun 2013 #169
hack89 Jun 2013 #179
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #180
BainsBane Jun 2013 #238
NaturalHigh Jun 2013 #55
BainsBane Jun 2013 #60
NaturalHigh Jun 2013 #62
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #82
BainsBane Jun 2013 #84
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #90
BainsBane Jun 2013 #92
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #110
LanternWaste Jun 2013 #116
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #120
BainsBane Jun 2013 #141
BainsBane Jun 2013 #94
BainsBane Jun 2013 #95
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #111
BainsBane Jun 2013 #112
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #113
BainsBane Jun 2013 #143
hack89 Jun 2013 #145
BainsBane Jun 2013 #154
hack89 Jun 2013 #167
BainsBane Jun 2013 #171
hack89 Jun 2013 #177
BainsBane Jun 2013 #193
hack89 Jun 2013 #196
BainsBane Jun 2013 #200
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #204
BainsBane Jun 2013 #205
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #206
BainsBane Jun 2013 #208
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #211
BainsBane Jun 2013 #227
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #241
BainsBane Jun 2013 #209
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #217
BainsBane Jun 2013 #228
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #242
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #181
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #176
BainsBane Jun 2013 #186
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #198
BainsBane Jun 2013 #240
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #244
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #22
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #24
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #25
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #27
BainsBane Jun 2013 #33
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #39
lumberjack_jeff Jun 2013 #47
BainsBane Jun 2013 #49
Squinch Jun 2013 #54
BainsBane Jun 2013 #64
Squinch Jun 2013 #66
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #83
BainsBane Jun 2013 #85
BainsBane Jun 2013 #87
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #43
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #44
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #46
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #48
BainsBane Jun 2013 #98
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #101
BainsBane Jun 2013 #102
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #103
BainsBane Jun 2013 #104
BainsBane Jun 2013 #51
BainsBane Jun 2013 #32
BainsBane Jun 2013 #34
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #42
BainsBane Jun 2013 #53
Squinch Jun 2013 #65
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #81
BainsBane Jun 2013 #97
Squinch Jun 2013 #124
niyad Jun 2013 #114
BainsBane Jun 2013 #35
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #86
BainsBane Jun 2013 #96
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #99
BainsBane Jun 2013 #100
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #118
BainsBane Jun 2013 #135
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #146
BainsBane Jun 2013 #156
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #207
BainsBane Jun 2013 #210
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #214
BainsBane Jun 2013 #216
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #218
BainsBane Jun 2013 #229
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #236
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #109
BainsBane Jun 2013 #138
gejohnston Jun 2013 #144
BainsBane Jun 2013 #152
gejohnston Jun 2013 #155
BainsBane Jun 2013 #158
gejohnston Jun 2013 #172
BainsBane Jun 2013 #182
gejohnston Jun 2013 #192
gejohnston Jun 2013 #202
BainsBane Jun 2013 #185
gejohnston Jun 2013 #190
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #197
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #175
BainsBane Jun 2013 #37
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #45
BainsBane Jun 2013 #71
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #88
BainsBane Jun 2013 #89
LanternWaste Jun 2013 #117
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #122
Squinch Jun 2013 #126
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #165
BainsBane Jun 2013 #225
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #243
Squinch Jun 2013 #239
arely staircase Jun 2013 #50
BainsBane Jun 2013 #52
Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #68
ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #93
BellaKos Jun 2013 #105
BainsBane Jun 2013 #108
duhneece Jun 2013 #137
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #201
niyad Jun 2013 #115
Catherina Jun 2013 #119
Quantess Jun 2013 #123
downbythelake Jun 2013 #142
BainsBane Jun 2013 #148
Pelican Jun 2013 #159
BainsBane Jun 2013 #160
BainsBane Jun 2013 #161
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #162
BainsBane Jun 2013 #164
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #199
BainsBane Jun 2013 #213
opiate69 Jun 2013 #223
BainsBane Jun 2013 #224
opiate69 Jun 2013 #230
BainsBane Jun 2013 #231
opiate69 Jun 2013 #234
Lizzie Poppet Jun 2013 #215
galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #221
Sunlei Jun 2013 #170
Bosso 63 Jun 2013 #189
BainsBane Jun 2013 #194
loose wheel Jun 2013 #191
BainsBane Jun 2013 #195
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #203
BainsBane Jun 2013 #212
ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #219
BainsBane Jun 2013 #222
ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #226
Please login to view edit histories.