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Igel

(35,270 posts)
123. Not really an issue.
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 06:19 PM
Jun 2013

What he said on his application, what the checkers verified, might be completely different from what he's telling the media.

If he's to be believed, he's a liar. He lied to his employer(s) in numerous ways in violating confidentiality and getting around safeguards. I don't know why it's a leap to think he's lying to the media. Perhaps because some want to believe him and what he says matches their confirmation bias so well?


Which is the point. Much of what he says the documents mean, much of what's going on around the documents themselves, whether we accept the authenticity of all the documents themselves, depend on whether he's telling us the truth.

In this, the "ad hominem" attacks are no different than many attacks on people on the 'net and in conversation. Don't like Limbaugh? Attack his character. Don't like somebody else who attacks those you support? Don't bother digging into how accurate their claims are, how much is spin, and how much the spin matters. Denounce their motives ("big pharma paid for this research, so the researchers can't be trusted&quot or their backgrounds ("the researcher had an affair and lied to his wife, he can't be trusted&quot or something else.

With Snowden, you can't check up on the truthfulness of much of what he says. So it stands or falls with his reliability.

Something is fishy about this guy. warrior1 Jun 2013 #1
Meat spoils if you leave it near him. sibelian Jun 2013 #21
why are we not to wonder about this guy? Whisp Jun 2013 #64
He has hypnotised me with his mesmeric spell. sibelian Jun 2013 #107
I see what you're trying to do here, but WeekendWarrior Jun 2013 #112
you were hypnotized by what you WANTED him to be. n/t Whisp Jun 2013 #113
He can't give you straight answer because he doesn't care Cha Jun 2013 #190
Well, if you want to show how anything about him sibelian Jun 2013 #212
Was I? sibelian Jun 2013 #213
!!!!! marions ghost Jun 2013 #114
It's true, it's almost as though we have become... kiva Jun 2013 #135
Don't start THAT again! randome Jun 2013 #72
I'm wondering if this guy even exists to begin with. Initech Jun 2013 #119
I'm wondering if a mole in the CIA developed him as a DevonRex Jun 2013 #192
And to the actual facts of this case? .... clarice Jun 2013 #2
He's starting to remind me of House, M.D. randome Jun 2013 #3
I love House! Marie Marie Jun 2013 #100
Who doesn't? randome Jun 2013 #124
So this is full-blown deflection LittleBlue Jun 2013 #4
It is Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #67
His character matters because he's making some serious assertions that aren't backed up pnwmom Jun 2013 #116
LOL treestar Jun 2013 #130
Again? Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #5
They're not in a position to let go. sibelian Jun 2013 #18
Pathetic. bvar22 Jun 2013 #65
The division across DU on this issue does seem to be unusually clear, doesn't it? sibelian Jun 2013 #75
Why do you insist on typing in caps all the time? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #103
Keeping that data and "spying on citizens" are two different things treestar Jun 2013 #131
We do NOT have to show a case where the data was used for this purpose. bvar22 Jun 2013 #151
It's also possible the NSA is combing through your garbage. Hiding under your bed. randome Jun 2013 #154
It is NOT possible that the NSA is "combing through my garbage." bvar22 Jun 2013 #180
How could it? treestar Jun 2013 #162
"We only have to show Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #168
So you agree with me that I don't have to show a documented case of abuse. bvar22 Jun 2013 #179
I agree you don't have to show a documented Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #199
And THAT is a Strawman. bvar22 Jun 2013 #214
I was not opining on the validity of Snowden's point Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #223
This just raises the question of why Booz Allen hired him into a six-figure job Sanity Claws Jun 2013 #6
He already had the clearance, which was probably a key reason he got hired. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #118
No. Why did the CIA hire him. BAH can be forgiven for thinking the CIA did their job. DevonRex Jun 2013 #122
Don't expect to learn anything about the CIA. Just sayin'.... delrem Jun 2013 #182
It's the investigation DevonRex Jun 2013 #188
I beg to differ lanlady Jun 2013 #145
Jumping on the 'Hate Booz Allen' bandwagon is too easy. randome Jun 2013 #150
I hear we're not supposed to 'attack the messenger' railsback Jun 2013 #7
There's nobody anywhere doing any supposing about you, railsback. sibelian Jun 2013 #17
Yeah, I guess we should look more at finding the truth of massage therapist groping by Al Gore!... cascadiance Jun 2013 #38
Devastating comeback! Too bad it goes whoosh with the deflectors! Pholus Jun 2013 #59
Analogy fail. The "groping" had nothing to do with his credibility on climate chagne yodermon Jun 2013 #89
How does one attain top secret clearance without a background check? tridim Jun 2013 #8
Andrea Mitchell discussed an NSA big cheese who attended hacker conventions flamingdem Jun 2013 #33
But it was CIA who gave him TS/SI clearance. Before that he was just a security GUARD DevonRex Jun 2013 #125
Over 25 yrs ago, when I was hired for defense work, FBI came to talk with.. JackN415 Jun 2013 #48
FBI still verify, but they are using contractors to do the verification more and more HipChick Jun 2013 #66
so if the CIA and the NSA are so incompetent, why do you trust them with your data? Monkie Jun 2013 #58
This speaks to a wider op in the CIA. A mole who's still there. maybe foreign but DevonRex Jun 2013 #127
why would he say those things if they weren't true? Whisp Jun 2013 #60
He sounds like a wannabe hacker..they love to brag HipChick Jun 2013 #68
I think he created documents to "prove" some of it & his background check is suspicious. DevonRex Jun 2013 #128
I'd check his Army recruiter. MADem Jun 2013 #206
Not really an issue. Igel Jun 2013 #123
Problem is TS/SI clearances depend on character. His Army application? All lies. DevonRex Jun 2013 #138
They don't use your resume for the background check. jeff47 Jun 2013 #161
Let me know when alsame Jun 2013 #9
The Swiss seem to give him some credibility. A Simple Game Jun 2013 #111
And Switzerland has its own system. DevonRex Jun 2013 #142
And Switzerland has its own system of what? If your links have any meaning A Simple Game Jun 2013 #156
LOL, it appears DevonRex Jun 2013 #158
So here's what you do... DevonRex Jun 2013 #159
You're not a quisling. sibelian Jun 2013 #10
I was thinking obsessed. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #20
Underpaid, probably. sibelian Jun 2013 #32
Cubicle. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #53
I'm a paid operative for the Obama Administration Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #90
Are you? sibelian Jun 2013 #94
This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #101
What do you mean I'm not doing well? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #102
You're doing very well, Cali_Democrat. delrem Jun 2013 #185
Don't they check these things when giving someone a top secret clearance? BlueCheese Jun 2013 #11
I used to work in defense and had top secret clearance also 20 yrs ago. I heard.. JackN415 Jun 2013 #23
I was interviewed by the FBI on two occasions regarding applicants. avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #52
Depends on the Agency that did it...but looks like they didn't verify shit.. HipChick Jun 2013 #24
But this is a top secret clearance! BlueCheese Jun 2013 #29
The real security problem... gulliver Jun 2013 #12
Exactly. Many defense or homeland security contractors are very slack in hiring... JackN415 Jun 2013 #19
Bigger problem...many contractors are foreign born HipChick Jun 2013 #70
+1 Jamaal510 Jun 2013 #80
But..But...he's a national hero... HipChick Jun 2013 #13
If you're more concerned about his lies than Clapper's.... MNBrewer Jun 2013 #16
THAT really does "say it all." bvar22 Jun 2013 #95
Makes me wonder MNBrewer Jun 2013 #14
You did right. The guy appeared flakey to me from the beginning JackN415 Jun 2013 #15
So how do you feel about your phone calls and emails not being private? n/t Marrah_G Jun 2013 #22
SHHHHHHH!!!!! sibelian Jun 2013 #34
And he was hired by an Obama administration contractor why? forestpath Jun 2013 #25
LOL @ "Obama admin contractor" tridim Jun 2013 #28
So, you can't answer the question. And I'm not a dude so save the condescending crap. forestpath Jun 2013 #39
Nope, I'm laughing too hard. nt tridim Jun 2013 #41
Welcome to my ignore list. forestpath Jun 2013 #47
are you high? where do you get this crap? Booze-Allen is about as Reich-wing as they come since Drew Richards Jun 2013 #91
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #98
Please post a copy of his resume. Thanks. DesMoinesDem Jun 2013 #26
I'll bet any amount of money that his pole-dancing-stripper-ballerina girlfriend doesn't exist. tridim Jun 2013 #27
Oh, no. She's for realz!!! She posted 'scantily clad photographs' of herself. freshwest Jun 2013 #194
Wow. Good stuff freshwest. ucrdem Jun 2013 #196
Ah, yes, the daring adventures of the one percent. Don't worry, they'll be fine... freshwest Jun 2013 #198
I figured as much. Colleges on CVs don't often get checked flamingdem Jun 2013 #30
You think the CIA and the NSA doesn't check colleges? DesMoinesDem Jun 2013 #36
It must suck MattSh Jun 2013 #31
At this point, who cares about Snowden when the Constitution is burning? davidn3600 Jun 2013 #35
and yet they hired him -- this cuts both ways KurtNYC Jun 2013 #37
They are not recording all phone calls treestar Jun 2013 #133
According to FBI counter terrorism agent Tim Clemente and others (who would know) they ARE. KurtNYC Jun 2013 #209
He only said they can treestar Jun 2013 #210
This an excellent piece, and helps to clear up why BAH hired Snowden. It's about SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #40
you're bound and determined to kill the messenger aren't you? hobbit709 Jun 2013 #42
bottom line backwoodsbob Jun 2013 #43
How would we know? thucythucy Jun 2013 #109
I don't trust Snowden at all, and I don't like what the NSA is doing. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #44
I agree with you completely Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #62
I have to say this. DevonRex Jun 2013 #191
but he DID enlist, he WAS in the cia, he WAS in the nsa, he DID have the access. Monkie Jun 2013 #45
Pure cult of personality Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #51
much like Bodhi BloodWave Jun 2013 #78
Brainwashed by Obama. Pfft! How ridiculous. randome Jun 2013 #83
Well said treestar Jun 2013 #134
He was what in the CIA? aquart Jun 2013 #175
Any body language experts out there care to take a stab at how he looks on video? randome Jun 2013 #46
how about a psychic? a mind reader? Monkie Jun 2013 #54
And a week into this, he still has offered no evidence. randome Jun 2013 #56
He doesn't have to since the Administration has not only copped but defended the practices. TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #79
Yes, they 'defended' the practices that were already known. randome Jun 2013 #82
LMAO LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #57
he kind of reminds me of those guys in LA who talk about how they wrote huge movie scripts JI7 Jun 2013 #49
Yet BoozAllen hired him. Revealing the utter incomptence of private spying companies is snagglepuss Jun 2013 #50
Stop obsessing over Snowden Matariki Jun 2013 #55
Just wanted to highlight some things in there to bring it into focus. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #86
Which has been interpreted quite extensively treestar Jun 2013 #136
It doesn't allow for broad collection and storage of private data Matariki Jun 2013 #170
That hasn't been decided yet treestar Jun 2013 #211
ABC Community College info is wrong pschoeb Jun 2013 #61
Yeah and Clapper lied to Congress under oath.. SomethingFishy Jun 2013 #63
Those who work for spy agencies and give public testimony... randome Jun 2013 #69
ROFLMFAO... SomethingFishy Jun 2013 #74
He could have said, "I'll answer that in a classified briefing Congressman." That would SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #85
True. Maybe he wasn't thinking on his feet. randome Jun 2013 #88
No, he couldn't have. jeff47 Jun 2013 #163
Not at all. He would merely be saying that the information was classified and that SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #166
It was a "Yes" or "No" question. jeff47 Jun 2013 #167
Of course there is. He could have said "Congressman, it's not a simple yes or no, SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #169
Your proposed answer reveals classified information. jeff47 Jun 2013 #174
That's a pretty large leap to get to that answer. If I'm an intel guy and say SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #178
There would be wiggle room if the question was open-ended. It wasn't. jeff47 Jun 2013 #219
We're really just stuck on semantics here, Jeff. You say it *must* be answered as a yes/no SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #220
Oh shit. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #143
The wise man wouldn't trust either of them... SomethingFishy Jun 2013 #144
I'll try this again. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #148
I doubt people had any idea of the scope of this program... and still don't. SomethingFishy Jun 2013 #152
There is no evidence... OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #153
Then I will check back with you... SomethingFishy Jun 2013 #155
LOL at these pathetic smears. DesMoinesDem Jun 2013 #71
Just be patient. They are sick and responding to a serious conflict between core beliefs and... NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #176
For the umptheenth time, dgibby Jun 2013 #73
But he was OUR HERO the other day! treestar Jun 2013 #137
Forget it. bvar22 Jun 2013 #164
O boy... a padded resume that gets passed the meta data folks... Snowden didn't exaggerate midnight Jun 2013 #76
What about his time with the CIA? atreides1 Jun 2013 #77
Essentially he is a con man...and a lousy one at that too.. HipChick Jun 2013 #81
What does this have to do with the government spying on Americans? burnodo Jun 2013 #84
Nothing. sibelian Jun 2013 #106
The only relevance this factoid has to the revelation that Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #87
You have your facts jumbled...not all of those 500,000 private contractors HipChick Jun 2013 #92
I find it mildly amusing that you seem to believe that Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #115
Look! Look! Over there! QC Jun 2013 #93
OMG! SNOWDEN'S UNDRESSING! sibelian Jun 2013 #96
I saw the outline of his but-tocks through his underwear! QC Jun 2013 #97
Looks like the "messenger" has major credibility issues. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #99
Um, so what? truebluegreen Jun 2013 #104
I've posted numerous times that I'm opposed to the program the way it's currently constituted Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #110
quisling? no--more like Larry Layton MisterP Jun 2013 #105
I have no doubt that there are gross exaggerations to this guy's resume blackspade Jun 2013 #108
The records he leaked don't prove what he says they do. pnwmom Jun 2013 #121
regardless of the means or amount, the documents are extremely troubling blackspade Jun 2013 #157
Know what would have been really helpful? OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #117
You're not evil for bringing it up. Bonobo Jun 2013 #120
Yeah. He should have given the least untruthful information. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #126
+1 nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #129
As one who has actually had a secret clearance... longship Jun 2013 #132
fishy or the huge expansion in the national security apparatus after 9/11? Monkie Jun 2013 #141
Yep.. I have to agree...been saying this all along.. HipChick Jun 2013 #149
The fact that he's lying on his resume doesn't mean he lied on his clearance paperwork. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #165
Really how do you know? Historic NY Jun 2013 #205
I don't know. But lying on one doesn't guarentee he lied on the other. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #217
THEY CHECK THAT TOO!!! Background checkers will ask your neighbors how many times did you uponit7771 Jun 2013 #216
Not really. jeff47 Jun 2013 #218
Exactly right. nt Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #183
Big Brother, Member of the W German Stasi, on par N Korea's Internal Security, baldguy Jun 2013 #139
not surprised.. this guy is full of shit. DCBob Jun 2013 #140
Snowden also lied about his Booz salary lanlady Jun 2013 #146
And that's why it's fascism when Bush does it, but it's okay if Obama does it Android3.14 Jun 2013 #147
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #160
Is he Bob Lazar's son? He reminds me a lot of Lazar in looks and claims csziggy Jun 2013 #171
Nope. He hasn't struck a right note with me yet. aquart Jun 2013 #172
Denial much? NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #173
who cares? It doesn't change the fact that Obama's administration is overseeing bowens43 Jun 2013 #177
Snowden had the jobs he did. The info he released is genuine info. OK? delrem Jun 2013 #181
Ok...if you say so, it must be true HipChick Jun 2013 #184
Well fer chrysake, do you *deny* that he held the jobs he did, that the info released was genuine? delrem Jun 2013 #187
Talking shit about the person is... 99Forever Jun 2013 #186
Squirrel ... SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #221
Let's your celebrate 2000th post. 99Forever Jun 2013 #222
I was agreeing with you, 99. The reference is from the movie "UP". When the dogs SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #224
quisling? no, I don't think so. reusrename Jun 2013 #189
YOU MEAN LIKE CLAPPER'S CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY? Th1onein Jun 2013 #193
No, Cali-Democrat, you're not a quisling. You're a whistleblower. We're all winners here! freshwest Jun 2013 #195
And Snowden is the new Jay Gatsby ucrdem Jun 2013 #197
You analyzed it correctly. Rotten tomatoes indeed. Ratfucking Central Casting flopped a bit. freshwest Jun 2013 #200
The Mysterious Mr Snowden ucrdem Jun 2013 #201
'That's Snowden. Edward Snowden. I'll take mine shaken, not stirred.' freshwest Jun 2013 #202
We're gonna have fun with this story. ucrdem Jun 2013 #203
No, Snowden is Harry Potter! randome Jun 2013 #207
He's dreamy! ucrdem Jun 2013 #208
Army recruiters.... MADem Jun 2013 #204
I knew he was lying about everything once I heard he donated $250 to Ron Paul. n/t hughee99 Jun 2013 #215
Worst OP I've seen in awhile dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #225
The MILITARY can't seem to get their story straight.... djsparks81 Jun 2013 #226
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Much of Snowden's resume ...»Reply #123