General Discussion

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)

46. And now the approval works like this...

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:53 PM

Jun 2013

A select group of political appointees who have no responsibility to the people can, in secret, IN SECRET, declare that millions of people be spied upon.

Sorry, no sale.

Making something legal with no proper consideration for whether it should be is what authoritarians do to justify themselves.

Was there a public debate on this?

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110 replies

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Biden 100% against meta data collection. [View all] Bonobo Jun 2013 OP

Back then. woo me with science Jun 2013 #1

Waaay back. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #26

When words were cheap lol n/t Catherina Jun 2013 #30

Yep, mere change. nt awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #68

I understand the VP is a cheerleading spot basically, but I wonder what Biden quinnox Jun 2013 #2

Of course he also voted to Extend the Patriot Act in 2006 so words and actions don't really mesh. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #7

Good info. Thanks. :thumbsup: nt TeeYiYi Jun 2013 #79

Has he said anything this week to defend or support it? arcane1 Jun 2013 #3

Hmmm... no nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #10

Has he resigned in protest yet? Fuddnik Jun 2013 #4

I wonder if Joe will now explain to us that he'd misjudged Bush and Cheney who should have been Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #5

+1 blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #24

Wow. Well said Catherina Jun 2013 #32

See post 31 BenzoDia Jun 2013 #33

I'm witholding judgement on him until I see a June 2013 quote from him on this topic n/t arcane1 Jun 2013 #56

Tee hee. sibelian Jun 2013 #108

This is so misleading. ProSense Jun 2013 #6

His own words are misleading? Bonobo Jun 2013 #9

No, the context is misleading. ProSense Jun 2013 #12

Ever hear the joke about Microsoft? Bonobo Jun 2013 #17

heh... progressoid Jun 2013 #61

Lol! NealK Jun 2013 #107

Video is out of context. See Post 31. You're spreading misinfo. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #34

They are out of context - context Prosense just explained karynnj Jun 2013 #35

Tell me how they are out of context? Bonobo Jun 2013 #38

He was speaking of the Bush program which was different than the current program karynnj Jun 2013 #41

And now the approval works like this... Bonobo Jun 2013 #46

Here is what Joe actullay said bothered him, which is not what Pro says, but what Joe says. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #11

Wait, ProSense Jun 2013 #15

Nope. not this time. Bonobo Jun 2013 #16

It's misleading. Deal with it. n/t ProSense Jun 2013 #18

They declared Spying to be the standard. Bonobo Jun 2013 #20

+1000 it's trying to put lipstick on a pig. It's spying. Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #47

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BrotherIvan Jun 2013 #87

Soon ProSense will reach an angular velocity similar to that of a quasar. sibelian Jun 2013 #109

A warrant without probable cause is also illegal. So Biden should be consistent regarding the law, sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #21

Hey. They just described the place to be searched as the whole fucking country. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2013 #60

You're wrong, I just found out it was the whole WORLD! sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #65

My mistake! Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2013 #69

there's a lot of misleading going on here... dennis4868 Jun 2013 #53

Then tell us, what's Obama's position on this? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #80

Biden gaffe, launched 7 years ago, circles globe, scores direct hit of foot in mouth!!! kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #8

It is not a gaffe, it is honest speaking from a man now unable to be honest. Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #14

The Kinsley definition of a gaffe Babel_17 Jun 2013 #19

In a country where we no longer abide by the rule of law, that would be a gaffe, to actually sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #25

I thought this was a new disclosure from Hong Kong Snowden Progressive dog Jun 2013 #13

Warrants issued without probable cause are NOT legal, secret court or public court. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #29

The law says they are, the SCOTUS so far has agreed Progressive dog Jun 2013 #40

Only a Constitutional Amendment can change the law and so far, there has been no Constitutional sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #43

It is legal until it is overturned Progressive dog Jun 2013 #54

We aren't talking about 'people overseas' any more. See that's what happens, you give criminals an sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #58

We didn't give them an inch, they took it Progressive dog Jun 2013 #70

Okay, I see the problem and don't doubt it. What that means is we have not been vigilant sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #72

Very true. Legislators often "test the limits" of the Constitution. Laelth Jun 2013 #96

HAHAHA blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #22

Here is the full interview: ProSense Jun 2013 #23

Thanks for the link which changes nothing. nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #27

That's pretty rude. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #28

Video means you're spreading false info. Smh BenzoDia Jun 2013 #36

Heh, beat me to the punch ;) BenzoDia Jun 2013 #37

This is out of context. He says FISA and court orders are required. Video here: BenzoDia Jun 2013 #31

FISA and court order for WHAT? Bonobo Jun 2013 #39

To keep the executive branch in check. He's clear in the FULL video which you failed to post :) BenzoDia Jun 2013 #42

What is clear from his words Bonobo Jun 2013 #44

Are you familiar with the 4th Amendment? Apparently Biden was at that time. Let's hope he is still. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #45

Yes I am. Smith V Maryland states that the use of pen registers does not violate the 4th. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #50

Explain 'pen registers' please. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #55

I have a better idea. Go look it up. Then go read the Patriot Act. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #57

So it has nothing to do with this. I read the Patriot Act, way back when the war criminals sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #63

Here, from the ACLU's website: BenzoDia Jun 2013 #91

"So it is still not a violation of the 4th Amendment. " Bonobo Jun 2013 #100

I thought you said you read the Patriot Act? Why don't you know all of this already? BenzoDia Jun 2013 #102

What does that have to do with my above post? Bonobo Jun 2013 #103

Pen registers simply dealt with phone numbers Bonobo Jun 2013 #64

Thank you, that explains the reluctance to explain it. I had a feeling it was not relevant to the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #71

It's like saying that riding more than 2 people in a car is illegal Bonobo Jun 2013 #73

In terms of today's technology, it may be the same thing treestar Jun 2013 #86

Yes, they are. The definition was updated to account for changes in modern comm. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #92

That definition of a pen register was expanded to included internet communication. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #90

I see. Can you please cite the case? Bonobo Jun 2013 #95

RE: smith v maryland & pen registers: Raine1967 Jun 2013 #74

Definition has been legally expanded. See #91 BenzoDia Jun 2013 #93

Justices Brennan, Marshall and Stewart dissented suffragette Jun 2013 #88

I'm not defending the use of pen registers. I'm arguing for accuracy in discussions and honesty in BenzoDia Jun 2013 #94

I think including the dissent leads to more accuracy. suffragette Jun 2013 #104

Sure, the dissent is important. But it was based on unregulated and warrantless use of pen BenzoDia Jun 2013 #105

Also on deep underlying concerns regarding the 4th Amendment and privacy suffragette Jun 2013 #106

We need new guidance from the SCOTUS. Laelth Jun 2013 #97

I agree 100% with you. BenzoDia Jun 2013 #99

You do have a point. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #66

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #48

Joe voted against domestic spying OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #49

Biden was talking about dennis4868 Jun 2013 #51

Um, I beg to differ. Laelth Jun 2013 #98

Joe was about to become my front runner for the nomination til you guys convinced me he is okay dkf Jun 2013 #52

Ruh roh! LittleBlue Jun 2013 #59

To be fair, there's a jump cut (not sure if that's the right term) in there. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #62

Yes, you have it right. Bonobo Jun 2013 #67

As Seen On Sean Hannity tonight...... Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #75

Explain to me why it matters where it was broadcast. nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #76

Sure.... Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #77

SO they are hypocrites and so are our guys? Bonobo Jun 2013 #81

The messenger, and not the message is what is important right? Savannahmann Jun 2013 #84

As seen on The Daily Show on Monday night, so Hannity is copying them, actually. Electric Monk Jun 2013 #85

Come on... Fox? You KNOW that was edited or faked. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #78

Yes, I guess he changed. Or something. nt Bonobo Jun 2013 #82

Interesting. I posted something very similar on Monday night but got nowhere near the attention. Electric Monk Jun 2013 #83

K&R suffragette Jun 2013 #89

Of course, he's getting ready to run for President in a few years. cbdo2007 Jun 2013 #101

He also used to be a vocal proponent of publicly financed elections.... theplanfor2016 Jun 2013 #110