HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Muslim Women Shockingly N... » Reply #215
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Response to Bonobo (Reply #213)

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 02:56 AM

215. I don't really agree that women have no voice anywhere

You may not hear that voice, but that doesn't mean they don't exercise it. I know of some women in an area under Sharia law that carve out a space for resistance within that oppressive structure. They take advantage of the fact military police will not search a woman to smuggle guns under their burqas for revolutionary opposition. They work with the men in their families who stay hidden and transfer weapons and munitions to arm an independence movement. That is not to say they have the full range of ability to express their views as women elsewhere, but they are nonetheless politically active, far more so than you or I.

What perplexes me is how anxious you are to privilege the voices of some young European feminists over Muslim women. My core belief is that if you don't respect a people, you are only going to do them harm. Statements like "fuck he Qur'an reveal as much contempt for Muslim women as Muslim men. I really don't see it as much different ideologically from the neoliberal determination to deny political self-determination and instead justify war for the purposes of redeeming the poor benighted Muslim people through so-called democracy. Enter, war in Iraq. Enough looking down our noses at people across the world. Who are we to pass judgment? We are a highly militaristic society with the highest incarceration rate in the world. We are one of a handful of nations that exercise state sanctioned murder through the death penalty, and we have one of the greatest income disparities in the world. I don't believe we are fit to pass judgment on other cultures. It's not for me to determine what is best for women in Tunisia, Kandahar, or Cairo. They have every bit as much of a right to make those determinations as I do, and I refuse to treat them with less respect that I expect myself.

To view the veil as entirely oppressive is ignorant and ethnocentric. It's meaning is far more complex. It is decidedly contested, but not nearly as one dimensional as many here imagine. There is a body of academic literature on the subject: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=muslim+veil&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C24&as_sdtp=

I also happen to know women in my state of Minnesota who choose to veil. There are also native white Minnesotans who convert to Islam and veil. While I confess to feeling a bit perplexed when I see them, I recognize it is their choice. Certainly many women do not veil by choice, but some do. Muslims for me are not a foreign and strange other. I have Muslim friends and work with many others. I have met Muslim women artists from Egypt, art historians from Iran, dancers and scholars from Indonesia, as well as many Muslim men-- Arab, African, and Persian--who are filmmakers, artists, and scholars. I'm successful in working with them because I don't share the kind of prejudice toward their religion and ethnicity that is so common in the West, as some have specifically told me. As a result, I see this issue quite differently from many here.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 235 replies Author Time Post
redqueen Apr 2013 OP
Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #1
redqueen Apr 2013 #2
Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #3
Katashi_itto Apr 2013 #226
randome Apr 2013 #4
redqueen Apr 2013 #5
randome Apr 2013 #8
opiate69 Apr 2013 #7
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #121
opiate69 Apr 2013 #124
Prism Apr 2013 #6
redqueen Apr 2013 #9
Prism Apr 2013 #54
sufrommich Apr 2013 #71
stevenleser Apr 2013 #122
sufrommich Apr 2013 #128
opiate69 Apr 2013 #136
maddezmom Apr 2013 #134
polly7 Apr 2013 #139
maddezmom Apr 2013 #141
onpatrol98 Apr 2013 #227
alp227 Apr 2013 #146
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #10
redqueen Apr 2013 #11
opiate69 Apr 2013 #12
redqueen Apr 2013 #14
opiate69 Apr 2013 #15
redqueen Apr 2013 #19
opiate69 Apr 2013 #21
idwiyo Apr 2013 #221
opiate69 Apr 2013 #231
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #28
opiate69 Apr 2013 #41
Kurska Apr 2013 #49
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #85
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #18
redqueen Apr 2013 #20
opiate69 Apr 2013 #22
polly7 Apr 2013 #24
pnwmom Apr 2013 #74
theKed Apr 2013 #36
Bonobo Apr 2013 #191
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #13
redqueen Apr 2013 #16
name not needed Apr 2013 #17
randome Apr 2013 #27
sufrommich Apr 2013 #23
seabeyond Apr 2013 #37
polly7 Apr 2013 #46
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #51
polly7 Apr 2013 #53
maddezmom Apr 2013 #58
sufrommich Apr 2013 #55
bettyellen Apr 2013 #101
MattSh Apr 2013 #69
datasuspect Apr 2013 #160
bettyellen Apr 2013 #25
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #34
bettyellen Apr 2013 #63
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #66
bettyellen Apr 2013 #68
Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #35
whathehell Apr 2013 #57
Trajan Apr 2013 #65
Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #72
Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #157
bettyellen Apr 2013 #67
Scootaloo Apr 2013 #170
Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #187
Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #219
Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #26
bettyellen Apr 2013 #81
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #29
randome Apr 2013 #30
CobblePuller Apr 2013 #31
LittleBlue Apr 2013 #32
Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #33
JI7 Apr 2013 #188
opiate69 Apr 2013 #192
Kurska Apr 2013 #38
opiate69 Apr 2013 #39
Kurska Apr 2013 #40
msanthrope Apr 2013 #45
opiate69 Apr 2013 #48
Prism Apr 2013 #60
opiate69 Apr 2013 #61
Prism Apr 2013 #62
Apophis Apr 2013 #42
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #47
Kurska Apr 2013 #56
JVS Apr 2013 #80
msanthrope Apr 2013 #43
Kurska Apr 2013 #44
BainsBane Apr 2013 #50
Kurska Apr 2013 #52
LittleBlue Apr 2013 #59
Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #77
bettyellen Apr 2013 #94
JI7 Apr 2013 #190
bettyellen Apr 2013 #193
opiate69 Apr 2013 #194
bettyellen Apr 2013 #195
opiate69 Apr 2013 #197
bettyellen Apr 2013 #198
opiate69 Apr 2013 #199
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #200
opiate69 Apr 2013 #201
bettyellen Apr 2013 #210
bettyellen Apr 2013 #202
alp227 Apr 2013 #147
BainsBane Apr 2013 #180
Kurska Apr 2013 #181
opiate69 Apr 2013 #183
polly7 Apr 2013 #220
opiate69 Apr 2013 #235
idwiyo Apr 2013 #222
opiate69 Apr 2013 #229
idwiyo Apr 2013 #230
opiate69 Apr 2013 #232
distantearlywarning Apr 2013 #133
Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #64
DirkGently Apr 2013 #70
bettyellen Apr 2013 #73
polly7 Apr 2013 #75
bettyellen Apr 2013 #76
polly7 Apr 2013 #78
bettyellen Apr 2013 #86
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #89
bettyellen Apr 2013 #91
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #111
bettyellen Apr 2013 #196
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #107
bettyellen Apr 2013 #126
opiate69 Apr 2013 #79
LittleBlue Apr 2013 #92
bettyellen Apr 2013 #96
LittleBlue Apr 2013 #102
bettyellen Apr 2013 #105
LittleBlue Apr 2013 #109
bettyellen Apr 2013 #110
LittleBlue Apr 2013 #117
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #108
bettyellen Apr 2013 #115
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #123
bettyellen Apr 2013 #93
opiate69 Apr 2013 #98
bettyellen Apr 2013 #99
opiate69 Apr 2013 #100
DirkGently Apr 2013 #83
bettyellen Apr 2013 #90
randome Apr 2013 #116
bettyellen Apr 2013 #119
randome Apr 2013 #125
bettyellen Apr 2013 #130
riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #135
bettyellen Apr 2013 #171
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #216
bettyellen Apr 2013 #217
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #218
bettyellen Apr 2013 #233
redqueen Apr 2013 #223
opiate69 Apr 2013 #234
DirkGently Apr 2013 #127
bettyellen Apr 2013 #132
DirkGently Apr 2013 #137
bettyellen Apr 2013 #152
polly7 Apr 2013 #159
bettyellen Apr 2013 #163
polly7 Apr 2013 #164
idwiyo Apr 2013 #225
bettyellen Apr 2013 #228
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #82
JVS Apr 2013 #84
stevenleser Apr 2013 #120
backscatter712 Apr 2013 #87
sufrommich Apr 2013 #88
sufrommich Apr 2013 #95
MellowDem Apr 2013 #149
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #97
99Forever Apr 2013 #103
LittleBlue Apr 2013 #104
arely staircase Apr 2013 #106
Rex Apr 2013 #112
stevenleser Apr 2013 #113
LineLineReply .
randome Apr 2013 #118
polly7 Apr 2013 #114
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #129
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #131
bettyellen Apr 2013 #140
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #144
bettyellen Apr 2013 #155
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #156
bettyellen Apr 2013 #162
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #165
bettyellen Apr 2013 #167
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #173
bettyellen Apr 2013 #174
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #175
bettyellen Apr 2013 #178
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #179
bettyellen Apr 2013 #182
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #184
bettyellen Apr 2013 #185
Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #186
Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #138
JI7 Apr 2013 #142
opiate69 Apr 2013 #143
JI7 Apr 2013 #145
opiate69 Apr 2013 #148
JI7 Apr 2013 #150
opiate69 Apr 2013 #151
JI7 Apr 2013 #153
opiate69 Apr 2013 #154
bettyellen Apr 2013 #158
The Straight Story Apr 2013 #161
DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #166
opiate69 Apr 2013 #168
bettyellen Apr 2013 #169
JI7 Apr 2013 #176
DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #177
TimberValley Apr 2013 #172
Bonobo Apr 2013 #189
BainsBane Apr 2013 #203
Bonobo Apr 2013 #204
BainsBane Apr 2013 #205
Bonobo Apr 2013 #206
BainsBane Apr 2013 #207
Bonobo Apr 2013 #208
BainsBane Apr 2013 #209
Bonobo Apr 2013 #211
BainsBane Apr 2013 #212
Bonobo Apr 2013 #213
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply I don't really agree that women have no voice anywhere
BainsBane Apr 2013 #215
idwiyo Apr 2013 #224
cliffordu Apr 2013 #214
Please login to view edit histories.