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Blanks

(4,835 posts)
43. If I go to an oncologist and he/she...
Sat Mar 16, 2013, 10:07 PM
Mar 2013

told me that I have cancer. I'd ask how he/she knew I had cancer without having performed any tests; I don't care what they offer as an explanation.

If the majority of people would take the treatment advice of an oncologist who didn't perform a single test, then the majority of people deserve the dehumanizing chemo therapy that they'd get. I wouldn't be the least bit convinced by an oncologist who tried to tell me: 'those tests are unreliable, I know what I'm doing'.

Personally, I wouldn't listen to another word he/she (the oncologist) had to say. The disagreement here is in the method of diagnosis, but the real issue is that once I've determined that my doctor is a hack; firing him/her is no problem.

Unfortunately, a parent can't just fire professional educator after professional educator because they insist that tests are a bad idea. Eventually what's going to happen is these professional educators will be replaced by people who understand that we send kids to school so that they will learn. If kids are learning, there shouldn't be any problem with demonstrating somehow objectively (which means not the teachers opinion) that the child has learned.

The reason professional educators aren't put on a pedestal for their teaching experience is that we all teach and we all learn. I remember what it was like to learn difficult subjects like differential equations and engineering physics. When our experience is not consistent with what you are saying... Well lets just say you don't get a credibility bump. It isn't like structural analysis - something I know how to do, but you don't; it's something that we both know how to do (teach) and you are just trying to convince me that I don't know how. I teach all the time, I learn all the time and I test the people I am teaching frequently and expect to be tested when I am being taught - it just isn't that big a deal.

We took the professional educator's word in this country for how well our children were learning for a long time only to find that we were falling behind other developed countries in math, science and the proper use of semicolons.

If the statistics supported your assertion that 'we know what we are doing,' then I'd agree with you. In fact, I'd be glad to review any statistics that show improved learning by the methods that you are proposing, but when it comes to american student academic performance compared to other countries, it seems like we are just getting worse.

Just imagine the lessons kids learn from this policy. madfloridian Mar 2013 #1
The allure and narrowness of making a final judgement on a single measure reteachinwi Mar 2013 #2
Great quote. madfloridian Mar 2013 #5
this is how I've had to approach my son's education liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #8
I have a third grader d_r Mar 2013 #3
I agree 100% madfloridian Mar 2013 #4
Trust me Ohio has had lots of dumb testing adventures dsc Mar 2013 #6
Here's a story... ReRe Mar 2013 #7
+1 reteachinwi Mar 2013 #52
These end of year tests should not be viewed as... Blanks Mar 2013 #9
Ah, one test to determine your career. theaocp Mar 2013 #10
Do you think that's unique among educators? Blanks Mar 2013 #11
Teachers are already evaluated several times a year. The reformers must love your words. madfloridian Mar 2013 #14
That's a false accusation. Teachers ARE evaluated. Four times a year in my district. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #30
Who said 'teachers aren't evaluated'? Blanks Mar 2013 #61
"I don't of any profession where we just take their word for how good they are. " proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #62
You feel that those two completely different statements are equal? Blanks Mar 2013 #63
I don't see them as completely different statements. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #66
Even with your typo? Blanks Mar 2013 #68
That was YOUR typo. I copied and pasted from your post. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #73
I stand corrected. Have a nice day. eom Blanks Mar 2013 #74
" The simplest, most straightforward way" = false equivalence Reader Rabbit Mar 2013 #32
I believe students should emerge from each grade... Blanks Mar 2013 #35
Again, spoken like an engineer. Reader Rabbit Mar 2013 #39
Amen. madfloridian Mar 2013 #40
If I go to an oncologist and he/she... Blanks Mar 2013 #43
You do realize that... Reader Rabbit Mar 2013 #49
I don't want it to be the teachers fault. Blanks Mar 2013 #60
When you are developing a new widget reteachinwi Mar 2013 #53
We should have a system that can objectively demonstrate... Blanks Mar 2013 #59
That is not my experience. reteachinwi Mar 2013 #54
There are portfolios for severely disabled children. eom Blanks Mar 2013 #64
And there are many mildly disabled children who don't do well on these tests. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #65
I'm sure there are. Blanks Mar 2013 #67
No there are no such provisions. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #69
The rules vary from state to state... Blanks Mar 2013 #70
No they don't vary. It's a FEDERAL law. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #71
My attorney/wife practices disability law... Blanks Mar 2013 #72
Well done. nt LWolf Mar 2013 #38
That illogic, in a nutshell, is why public education is on the ropes. LWolf Mar 2013 #12
How would you recommend evaluating educators? Blanks Mar 2013 #13
Public education is sinking because it is being defunded and dismantled. madfloridian Mar 2013 #15
I'm sure that's a factor in some places. Blanks Mar 2013 #16
See my post above to you. Yes, parents DO have responsibility for their children learning. madfloridian Mar 2013 #17
Fair enough. I can agree to disagree with you. Blanks Mar 2013 #18
Parents had their kids for years before they went to school. madfloridian Mar 2013 #19
I disagree about the training for tests comment. Blanks Mar 2013 #20
You are twisting my words around. madfloridian Mar 2013 #21
How is what I said different from what you meant? Blanks Mar 2013 #22
You said, I quote: madfloridian Mar 2013 #24
Perhaps if you didn't use 'that is just nonsense'... Blanks Mar 2013 #26
Hey, post a poll. I am backing off. madfloridian Mar 2013 #27
What do you want it to ask? Blanks Mar 2013 #28
Piaget reteachinwi Mar 2013 #55
My wife and I have discussed me teaching. Blanks Mar 2013 #58
Start with this: LWolf Mar 2013 #29
It's perfectly reasonable to evaluate someone's results. Blanks Mar 2013 #34
It doesn't really matter how many LWolf Mar 2013 #37
Many of the students I taught were in 10th grade. reteachinwi Mar 2013 #56
That makes sense to me. Blanks Mar 2013 #57
we aren't sinking in comparison to other countries. i've posted multiple times on the problems HiPointDem Mar 2013 #44
Could you provide a link? eom Blanks Mar 2013 #45
I'm not going to go and look for a link for each one of those claims again; if you're interested HiPointDem Mar 2013 #47
I'm not following your line of reasoning here. surrealAmerican Mar 2013 #23
Sort of. Blanks Mar 2013 #25
Because the only reason children fail is because they have bad teachers? proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #31
The way we learn that a child is failing... Blanks Mar 2013 #36
Some education on the history of standardized tests might be indicated. LWolf Mar 2013 #41
+1 proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #42
What is parent SES? eom Blanks Mar 2013 #46
socio-economic status. It's the best predictor of student performance out there. Not only in HiPointDem Mar 2013 #48
socio-economic status LWolf Mar 2013 #50
I agree...If no one showed up there would be NO one to test! Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #33
The Old Computer Adage: "No Doc, No Problem!" nt TheBlackAdder Mar 2013 #51
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