Reply #136

In the discussion thread: Are Mormons Christian? [View all]

Wed Feb 1, 2012, 10:23 AM

MineralMan (53,845 posts)

136. Well, this went well.

Questions like yours are not possible to answer, since there isn't really a universal definition of what a Christian is. Christianity is host to thousands of denominations, each of which believes that it is the one that truly understands what Christianity is. New denominations are constantly splitting off from older ones, often over very minor doctrinal issues.

Christianity is not one thing. It is not a hundred things. It is whatever a believer thinks it is.

As for candidates for the presidency, most have been Christians, at least by their own definition. There's some question about a couple of them, but none have ever actually said they were not Christian, as far as I know. Since Christianity, in one form or another, is the dominant religious belief in this country, it's difficult to conceive of an admitted non-Christian winning the Presidency.

So, is Romney a Christian? Well, if he claims to be, I can't argue with him on that point. Lacking an objective definition of Christianity, I'd have no grounds to argue with him. His politics? Oh, yes, I can argue with him on that.

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281 replies	Author	Time	Post
Are Mormons Christian? [View all]	Renew Deal	Jan 2012	OP
in the same way David Koresh was Christian.	FarLeftFist	Jan 2012	#1
Was Jesus Christian?	Kablooie	Jan 2012	#2
If you want to fluster a fundamentalist, ask them that very question.	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#6
This belongs in the religous forum. No Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was the son of God. So what	lonestarnot	Jan 2012	#12
LOL	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#17
To each his own and I say that one day your knees will bow, like it or not. So you have fun now.	lonestarnot	Jan 2012	#22
I love how Christians resort to threats of eternal damnation when their beliefs are challenged.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#26
Did I say eternal damnation? No I did not. Now when you get back to politics and save the	lonestarnot	Jan 2012	#33
This post was hidden by jury decision.	A HERETIC I AM	Feb 2012	#209
Looking for the LIKE button!	RetroLounge	Feb 2012	#230
I agree. nt	TBF	Feb 2012	#265
Me too, well worth the read! n/t	MarkCharles	Feb 2012	#267
Thank you.	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#34
not that it is that germaine to the main point of the point but 'heretic'	grantcart	Feb 2012	#224
Thanks, but trust me, I KNOW the definition of "Heretic"	A HERETIC I AM	Feb 2012	#231
And that is the most common understanding of the word	grantcart	Feb 2012	#234
I love how non-Christians seek out attention by posting comments like...	joeglow3	Jan 2012	#35
I actually didn't post that.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#42
I wrote that as a means to show a personal historical context.	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#58
I'm stealing your last quote if you don't mind, as a sig line. Brilliant. nt	riderinthestorm	Jan 2012	#68
You're welcome to it. I used it on the old DU for years.	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#73
Threats of eternal damnation are the most effective tool organized religion has	undeterred	Jan 2012	#37
I'm pretty sure that pointing that out is a sin	Renew Deal	Jan 2012	#43
All the fun people will be in hell.	undeterred	Jan 2012	#56
I didn't read that as damnation, White Wolf....	Ecumenist	Jan 2012	#41
Perhaps I misread him then. It is very possible.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#45
Oh God, you too? I went to a fundie Christian school in the 70's and saw these types for what	Ecumenist	Jan 2012	#57
The other poster is referencing a specific Scripture, in Romans 14. The full passage	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2012	#133
Of course it's a damnation.	A HERETIC I AM	Feb 2012	#215
I suppose it's all perception. I honestly don't think it was meant as a declaration	Ecumenist	Feb 2012	#216
Anyone that tells me "Someday your knees will bow" has a very specific idea in mind.	A HERETIC I AM	Feb 2012	#219
Sorry pal, but no, I won't.	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#49
Wow. You wasted a bunch of effort there. Did you have fun? Your opinion of my God is not valuable	lonestarnot	Jan 2012	#66
Yup. Same opinion.	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#71
Not me...	Hepburn	Jan 2012	#100
If your god actually existed, I'd tell him to fuck himself for demanding people "bow down".	Zhade	Feb 2012	#120
I kind of get this attitude but	treestar	Feb 2012	#148
I don't reject mythology because of others' interpretations, but because of the lack of evidence.	Zhade	Feb 2012	#170
You must really consider the circus	Warren DeMontague	Feb 2012	#126
holy shit	waddirum	Feb 2012	#169
Isn't that classic?	Warren DeMontague	Feb 2012	#172
this video has everything	waddirum	Feb 2012	#177
This message was self-deleted by its author	waddirum	Feb 2012	#176
Kneel Before Zod	Warren DeMontague	Feb 2012	#171
To whom? Mithras?	MNBrewer	Feb 2012	#173
"one day your knees will bow, like it or not."	eShirl	Feb 2012	#181
I Had a Friend In School with Bowed Legs	we can do it	Feb 2012	#187
"I say that one day your knees will bow" - KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!	cleanhippie	Feb 2012	#195
Pathetic and typical	Marrah_G	Feb 2012	#237
"Your knees will bow"? What the hell is that supposed to mean?	Humanist_Activist	Feb 2012	#268
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!!	Taverner	Feb 2012	#281
I remember studying the subject around 20 years ago.	mmonk	Jan 2012	#27
"Biblical Scholars" all think "he" existed- big surprise, there. Most objective non-Bible historians	Warren DeMontague	Feb 2012	#128
Not true ("Biblical Scholars" all think "he" existed), some are athiests.	eShirl	Feb 2012	#201
I think you misunderstood. Actually, for all I know there may be Biblical Scholars who dispute the	Warren DeMontague	Feb 2012	#233
You chose your DU name well.	Canuckistanian	Jan 2012	#50
I learned long ago - like back in 2003 - that discretion was the better part of valor.	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#52
he could have been real. doesn't mean he's a diety. at any rate, he was the first documented hippie	dionysus	Jan 2012	#63
Unfortunately.....	A HERETIC I AM	Jan 2012	#70
i challenge you to prove he didn't invent the bong.	dionysus	Jan 2012	#75
He didn't invent it	Warren DeMontague	Feb 2012	#127
I'm more on your side than not, but the reason the gospels were written decades after Jesus lived	deutsey	Jan 2012	#105
Next you'll be trying to say that Osiris didn't exist. Or Mithras.	Warren DeMontague	Feb 2012	#129
One day your knees will bow to Mithras.	Arugula Latte	Feb 2012	#174
In those days, that wouldn't matter	treestar	Feb 2012	#149
Jesus existed - he is a person who lived	treestar	Feb 2012	#147
There is not one iota of actual evidence that he existed.	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#189
You say that with confidence, as if you had hard evidence to back that up.	cleanhippie	Feb 2012	#196
BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Thanks for playing though.	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#197
I thought it was generally known and accepted	treestar	Feb 2012	#204
Well, you thought wrong	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#206
Again, why does it matter?	treestar	Feb 2012	#243
Oh, the old "Most critical historian" with no citation	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#251
It is generally accepted.	Union Scribe	Feb 2012	#222
Bollocks.	A HERETIC I AM	Feb 2012	#228
Uh huh.	Union Scribe	Feb 2012	#229
LOL.	A HERETIC I AM	Feb 2012	#232
Their threatening you doesn't mean Jesus didn't exist	treestar	Feb 2012	#244
Generally accepted by Christians perhaps.	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#239
The existence of any ancient figure	treestar	Feb 2012	#245
But we have independent sources	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#250
The physical evidence that Jesus existed	CJCRANE	Feb 2012	#271
One can decisively reject any notion of Jesus' divinity, but the historical	coalition_unwilling	Feb 2012	#270
Actually he was a Jew...	Marrah_G	Feb 2012	#235
Is Jesus Made of Matter?	snooper2	Feb 2012	#242
he was the only one ever actually spotted	SwampG8r	Jan 2012	#113
your comment on the "savior god" myth is	rapmanej	Feb 2012	#130
Nope.	mmonk	Jan 2012	#9
Jesus was a Jew. N/t	Hepburn	Jan 2012	#99
don't know and don't care	quinnox	Jan 2012	#3
Mormons say they are Christians.	provis99	Jan 2012	#4
A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of the Christ	SaintPete	Jan 2012	#38
But they say they got their teachings from Christ	jberryhill	Jan 2012	#74
Not "my" Christ, but I get your point	SaintPete	Jan 2012	#80
I meant the generic "you", not you specifically	jberryhill	Jan 2012	#81
So you have to believe in the trinity to be a Christian?	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#198
You're incorrect in many of your assumptions.	Common Sense Party	Feb 2012	#264
that's just the tired old "No True Scotsman" argument.	provis99	Jan 2012	#77
Not really. it's just a basic syllogism	SaintPete	Jan 2012	#78
Mormons are just as much Christan as any other group that claims the title.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#79
That makes as much sense as saying that everyone who claims to be a Democrat, IS a Democrat	SaintPete	Jan 2012	#84
That's a pretty good analogy	Orangepeel	Feb 2012	#115
Ah, then you'd need to demonstrate that self indentified Christians follow the teachings	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2012	#135
Haven't you ever argued a point from an objective POV?	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#150
Are you a Christian?	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#199
Nope	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#218
only follow the teachings of Jesus?	Orangepeel	Feb 2012	#114
OK, faulty premise.	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#132
Who made you the Decider?	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#190
By your logic	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#192
Blue Dogs AREN'T Democrats?	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#193
In name only	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#221
an atheist could follow the teachings of Jesus.	provis99	Feb 2012	#210
"by your definition, there are no such things as Christians"	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#220
Wow. You take the "no true Scotsman" all the way to the altar!	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#236
the Church clearly defined what Christianity was with the Nicene Creed	grantcart	Jan 2012	#95
I can take you to some Chruches where the Nicene Creed is not accepted	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2012	#138
Just because they don't repeat the Nicene Creed doesn't mean that they don't accept the	grantcart	Feb 2012	#156
Jesus.	cliffordu	Feb 2012	#161
100% against all forms of gambling?	KamaAina	Feb 2012	#280
True, but only after a long and often brutal fight...	spin	Feb 2012	#260
The other sects were wiped out	CJCRANE	Feb 2012	#272
Magic 8 Ball says: My sources say no. So I guess not.	cherokeeprogressive	Jan 2012	#5
I find it amusing that a Magic 8 Ball has "sources".	Capitalocracy	Jan 2012	#28
Are you SURE?	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#200
Define "christian". nm	rhett o rick	Jan 2012	#7
Definition of Christian: Someone who considers them self Christian.	Kablooie	Jan 2012	#103
I would say they are, however...	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#8
Do they worship the biblical Christ?	Ohio Dem	Jan 2012	#10
They do. Their interpertation of him is different than other sects, of course.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#13
I'm not an expert, but that makes them Christian by definition.	Ohio Dem	Jan 2012	#29
Do they concider Jesus the savior? nm	rhett o rick	Jan 2012	#111
Yeah they do.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#112
You can say you worship this god or that prophet	SaintPete	Jan 2012	#40
Yeah, no argument.	Ohio Dem	Jan 2012	#59
So if I PM you my address, you'll send me all your cash?	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#202
When I convert to Christianity I'll let you know	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#226
most gods didn't "teach" anything. They simply existed.	provis99	Feb 2012	#211
Jesus had teachings	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#223
Zeus didn't have teachings.	provis99	Feb 2012	#254
Lol. You might have had a point, IF I had actually made the argument you say I made	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#255
Buddha isn't a god, though.	white_wolf	Feb 2012	#274
To Buddhists, true	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#275
Good point. I wasn't thinking of the Hindu perspective.	white_wolf	Feb 2012	#278
Yes.	ZombieHorde	Jan 2012	#11
They talk out of both sides. They follow that Joseph Smith dude, book of mormon and they	lonestarnot	Jan 2012	#14
What's your feeling about Mo Udall?	onenote	Jan 2012	#16
Cult member liberal yes.	lonestarnot	Jan 2012	#20
What's the difference between a cult and a religion?	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#18
No,	lonestarnot	Jan 2012	#44
No one can choose what they actually believe	cpwm17	Jan 2012	#85
The public relations department. n/t	hughee99	Jan 2012	#97
A few hundred years.	Orangepeel	Feb 2012	#116
Following Jesus makes people cultists too.	Arugula Latte	Feb 2012	#249
The full name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints".	Nye Bevan	Jan 2012	#15
My rule of thumb:	Skinner	Jan 2012	#19
FYI, Andrew Sullivan posted three blogs with differing opinions on this last October. Links:	highplainsdem	Jan 2012	#21
The fundamentalists I know do not consider either Catholics or Mormons to be Christian...	undeterred	Jan 2012	#23
Anyone who claims that a Catholic is not a Christian	Nye Bevan	Jan 2012	#25
Well, there are a lot of idiots in religious circles.	undeterred	Jan 2012	#31
Thank you, Nye Bevan. I always get upset when people say things like "I was Catholic,	Ecumenist	Jan 2012	#48
I'll never understand how the original form of Christianity became regarded as false	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#61
You're absolutely right. My husband is Catholic, well he's Catholic AND Lutheran...long story	Ecumenist	Jan 2012	#65
Some would say the 'original form' is found in the Acts of the Apostles long prior to	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2012	#139
You're right. There are Christians, and then there are "Christians."	Poiuyt	Jan 2012	#102
There's Fundamentalist Catholics that don't believe that non Catholics are Christian	Nikia	Jan 2012	#106
well, according to my Sunday School teachers "Christian" means	NashvilleLefty	Jan 2012	#24
That depends on your definition of the word "Christian"	Motown_Johnny	Jan 2012	#30
One billion Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Christians all agree that 'Christian' is defined	grantcart	Feb 2012	#125
Except for those who do not. Quakers, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, the Church of	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2012	#140
Incorrect see # 156 above	grantcart	Feb 2012	#158
He is actually correct	quaker bill	Feb 2012	#256
Still incorrect	grantcart	Feb 2012	#259
A very intellectual response	quaker bill	Feb 2012	#261
This message was self-deleted by its author	grantcart	Feb 2012	#258
Most of those one billion have no idea	Motown_Johnny	Feb 2012	#141
Answered in detail in # 156	grantcart	Feb 2012	#160
In fact, they consider themselves Protestants (as such things go)	Nevernose	Jan 2012	#32
They don't consider themselves Protestants.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#39
I said "for all intents and purposes"	Nevernose	Jan 2012	#46
It probably depends a lot on where you live.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#54
I don't think Mormon's consider themselves Protestants at all...	metalbot	Jan 2012	#108
No these secret underwear wearing folks	gopiscrap	Jan 2012	#36
What about the silly-hat-wearing Pope? n/t	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#203
I have a friend who is a fundie christian (yeah, you read that right),	kestrel91316	Jan 2012	#47
Yes	EvolveOrConvolve	Jan 2012	#51
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints	MuseRider	Jan 2012	#53
That's what I thought.	Cleita	Jan 2012	#82
It depends on perspective	Digit	Jan 2012	#55
Digit, this Christian loves you just the way you are.. I'm not God and cannot judge you	Ecumenist	Jan 2012	#62
I define a religion based on the teachings or worship of Christ	rocktivity	Jan 2012	#60
Of course he does.	PassingFair	Jan 2012	#93
Allow people to define themselves...	BrentWil	Jan 2012	#64
Don't care, really don't care.	MadHound	Jan 2012	#67
Define Christian	Sgent	Jan 2012	#69
Most accept that Creed, others do not and some reject all Creeds as idols of a sort.	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2012	#142
Unitarians	Sgent	Feb 2012	#166
Very much so.	Jack Sprat	Jan 2012	#72
Kick	Morning Dew	Jan 2012	#76
Look the issue is about the definition of God. Jesus plays a minor role in Mormonism just like Islam	jwirr	Jan 2012	#83
You are wrong.	white_wolf	Jan 2012	#87
That is what I said it is the definition. I did not say the Mormons defined Jesus as a prophet I	jwirr	Jan 2012	#88
You just said that "Jesus plays a minor role in Mormonism just like Islam".	PassingFair	Jan 2012	#94
The just was referring to the phrase "a minor role".	jwirr	Feb 2012	#183
Muslims consider Christians to be Muslims who have been led astray.	provis99	Feb 2012	#212
Not sure what you are talking about but they have every right to say that since their religion does	jwirr	Feb 2012	#253
If Joe Leiberman can claim to be a Democrat	SaintPete	Jan 2012	#86
Heck if I know	etherealtruth	Jan 2012	#89
Are Christians Christian?	SomethingFishy	Jan 2012	#90
ICK	flamingdem	Jan 2012	#91
Maybe a few are. Of the roughly one billion humans who claim to be Christians, about 2 hundred	Skwid	Jan 2012	#92
Mormons do not fit the orthodox definition of Christianity and cannot be considered 'Christians', so	grantcart	Jan 2012	#96
Those intolerant Church Fathers don't own Christianity any more than Roman Catholics do	Nikia	Jan 2012	#104
History owns the word	grantcart	Feb 2012	#123
You are incorrect that the Nicene Creed is the accepted Standard. Many Protestant	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2012	#146
Most Unitarians don't claim to be Christian.	Critters2	Feb 2012	#185
Christ related sect of what?	metalbot	Jan 2012	#109
Well that would be an argument depending upon your point of view	grantcart	Feb 2012	#124
Christians mostly are not christian...	Hepburn	Jan 2012	#98
I've known alot of Mormons, always thought they were Christians. Never asked and don't give a shit.	limpyhobbler	Jan 2012	#101
No but they use Jesus to sound more mainstream	marlakay	Jan 2012	#107
I agree. I dated a Mormon in college. Learned a lot. Jesus plays almost no role in Mormonism.	Critters2	Jan 2012	#110
My best friend when I was in 6th and 7th grade	marlakay	Feb 2012	#184
More importantly, the fundies and evangelicals and social cons DON'T think so.	Lex	Feb 2012	#117
No, never underestimate them, they want President Obama to be gone	akbacchus_BC	Feb 2012	#119
My voting actions have never been based on what the fundies do.	Lex	Feb 2012	#121
I never said that you do!	akbacchus_BC	Feb 2012	#122
To the best of my ability and from reading the Bible, Mormons are Christians	akbacchus_BC	Feb 2012	#118
No, because they believe in a non-canonical 'revealed' Prophet and non-canonical texts	JCMach1	Feb 2012	#131
In practice probably a lot more Christian then the people that say they aren't.	Ganja Ninja	Feb 2012	#134
Well, this went well.	MineralMan	Feb 2012	#136
If Mormons believe they need intercession by someone OTHER than Christ	Romulox	Feb 2012	#137
Mormons don't belelive in the intercession of anyone but Jesus.	white_wolf	Feb 2012	#143
No. Mormons believe that Joseph Smith's prophecy ALTER the previous covenant.	Romulox	Feb 2012	#152
No, Mormons beleive Joseph Smith restored the orginal covenant.	white_wolf	Feb 2012	#154
The "original" covenant was with Adam. Mormons believe the covenant made by Jesus	Romulox	Feb 2012	#164
You are correct.	Common Sense Party	Feb 2012	#273
Yes, they believe in Christ	treestar	Feb 2012	#144
Muslims believe in Christ. nt	Romulox	Feb 2012	#153
They think he's a prophet, right?	treestar	Feb 2012	#155
Mormons do not believe that Jesus is god, either.	Romulox	Feb 2012	#162
Mormons beleive Jesus is a a god.	white_wolf	Feb 2012	#165
It's a confused theology, imo.	Romulox	Feb 2012	#168
As opposed to all of the other "non-confused" theologies?	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#191
They are self-proclaimed Christians and view Jesus as the primary figure, HOWEVER,...	HopeHoops	Feb 2012	#145
a cult is merely an unpopular sect.	provis99	Feb 2012	#213
One could argue that they're a cult as well.	HopeHoops	Feb 2012	#241
Who cares, really?	Yo_Mama	Feb 2012	#151
Oh yeah!	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#157
You read my mind, er, Constitution	Yo_Mama	Feb 2012	#167
Your comments about Kennedy and Jackson crack me up	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#178
Well, let's just say	Yo_Mama	Feb 2012	#180
"Sojourners' Forum on Faith, Values and Poverty." Remember that fiasco?	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#159
Yes, I do, and I was in fact thinking about it when I responded	Yo_Mama	Feb 2012	#248
Amen	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#252
Exactly. Romney's political views are far worse they any religion	Jennicut	Feb 2012	#246
Yeah - we're trying to elect a President	Yo_Mama	Feb 2012	#247
Not in the traditional sense, since they'd have to accept concepts like the Trinity.	closeupready	Feb 2012	#163
Lol. This entire thread is hilarious.	Arugula Latte	Feb 2012	#175
To each their own	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#179
Apostate! Heretic! Heathen!	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#207
No, it points out how absolutely stupid and ridiculous	Union Scribe	Feb 2012	#227
I'm not Mormon, but I do live in Utah. Mormons do consider themselves to be Christians. n/t	helderheid	Feb 2012	#182
Exact	libodem	Feb 2012	#186
The evangelicals, fundies, and teabaggers won't go for it	Lex	Feb 2012	#188
Did you ever go though the Book of Morman? Pretty wierd stuff in there. Thats what they believe,	demosincebirth	Feb 2012	#194
Yeah, but the "real" bible isn't full of wierd (sic) stuff.	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#205
Hey! There's nothing "wierd" about Christianity!!1!	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#208
They want to be accepted as the Chosen People	siligut	Feb 2012	#257
so where do we put Christian Jews? yes, they exist.	provis99	Feb 2012	#214
In the same way that Scientology is a religion.	GoneOffShore	Feb 2012	#217
Lol. DU theology class is in session.	Union Scribe	Feb 2012	#225
Apparently a section of the wall crumbled in DU3!	PassingFair	Feb 2012	#238
DU3 lets you hide threads, you know.	Goblinmonger	Feb 2012	#240
Interesting thread	mick063	Feb 2012	#262
Some are, some aren't--like any Christian religion.	Common Sense Party	Feb 2012	#263
IBTL	Major Hogwash	Feb 2012	#266
Mormonism is to Christianity as....	Evasporque	Feb 2012	#269
I think you mean the reverse, but I get ya	SaintPete	Feb 2012	#277
Yes. A Christian is anyone who tries to emulate Christ.	Taverner	Feb 2012	#276
They define themselves as much. The entirety of the rest of the discussion is about Scotsmen. (nt)	Posteritatis	Feb 2012	#279

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