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In reply to the discussion: Obama Administration Says President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil [View all]HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)61. if this letter were *not* claiming that by implication, there would be no controversy. presidents
& police *have always had* the power to use force where there was an *ongoing attack* -- on the country or on just one person.
what they haven't had is the power to assassinate people *before* they attack, preemptively.
so if holder is only claiming the power to kill during an attack, there's nothing new here.
so which is it?
the letter is worded so that one may read anything into it one likes.
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Obama Administration Says President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil [View all]
green for victory
Mar 2013
OP
Are we not as a nation STILL engaged in responding to 9/11? I think we are.
HereSince1628
Mar 2013
#7
and i don't recall the us government assassinating anybody at will in any of those either.
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#24
And just whom does AG Holder think should/could have been so targeted in those events?
WinkyDink
Mar 2013
#189
In your case, what's illegal is (or should be) subject to some sort of judicial review
MannyGoldstein
Mar 2013
#196
But the renting party can go to court and show that what they were doing was not illegal
MannyGoldstein
Mar 2013
#198
It's worth noting that this is the same team that recently redefined "imminent attack"
Marr
Mar 2013
#191
"... We have a long history of using the criminal justice system to incapacitate individuals
struggle4progress
Mar 2013
#199
The President has reserved the right to kill anyone who he just kinda suspects might do something
MannyGoldstein
Mar 2013
#42
Manny, maybe you should read the letter instead of Rand Paul's press release
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#44
Good! And *who* determines when "well-established law enforcement authorities"
MannyGoldstein
Mar 2013
#142
he's stating that law enforcement *IS* the better way of dealing with it.
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#144
So terror plots will only ever be disrupted by law enforcement, working with the courts?
MannyGoldstein
Mar 2013
#164
"Not to excuse it, but in the context of a world war, it's somewhat more forgivable to me."
ProSense
Mar 2013
#20
Amazing, at first glance I thought this to be parody of people like you
whatchamacallit
Mar 2013
#14
Holder's response is entirely right on all points, and those hyperventilating
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#15
Unavoidable civilian casualties? That would have involved shooting a missile
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#162
in this context, which is the ongoing use of *preemptive* force, on the basis of secret evidence,
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#105
"lethal force" is also too broad a term, because it's *targeted assassinations* that's going on.
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#114
the special circumstances that holder mentions clearly *have* happened before, as he lists 3
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#123
Actually, we did try to use preemptive targeted assasination against Bin Laden
jberryhill
Mar 2013
#131
not targeted at bin laden, but at supposed 'terrorist bases' in afghanistan and sudan.
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#172
i don't recall the US preemptively killing the leaders of the whiskey rebellion either.
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#36
I don't recall this letter claiming the authority to do that. I've read it--have you?
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#39
if this letter were *not* claiming that by implication, there would be no controversy. presidents
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#61
then it seems it's holder who's being 'trolled' by paul, not me. the wonder is that he does not
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#91
Fuck it, I'm moving to a country that doesn't need to kill it's citizens to protect them.
whatchamacallit
Mar 2013
#26
Please let me know when you find a country that will let me immigrate
green for victory
Mar 2013
#46
OK, are you comfortable with this power in the hands of any Republican in the future?
MadHound
Mar 2013
#77
Courage: I'm comfortable with all President's exercising the Constitutional powers Holder cited.
ProSense
Mar 2013
#98
So you're comfy with Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, or Paul Ryan having this power? Yes or no, no dancing.
MadHound
Mar 2013
#104
I'm not in favor of a Republican president being elected in the first place
jberryhill
Mar 2013
#137
"Every American has the right to know when their government is allowed to kill them."
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#173
We get it Pro, Obama is perfect, Obama never makes mistakes, Blah, Blah, Blah. n-t
Logical
Mar 2013
#165
You are making a sad spectacle of yourself trying to defend this unconstitutional act.
MadHound
Mar 2013
#81
Killing a person without due process, simply on the secret orders of a President,
MadHound
Mar 2013
#96
Lincoln didn't get Congressional authorization. He relied on a 1792 statute.
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#178
Eric Holder's letter did not claim or assert the power to kill US citizens on US soil
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#181
It didn't take any step--it just recited what everyone already agreed upon.
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#184
No, it didn't prevent Obama from doing anything, or any future president for that matter,
MadHound
Mar 2013
#187
Do you really think if Obama was going to start murdering people on US soil
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#188
Don't worry, Octafish. From all indications, you'll never make the list. n/t
Bolo Boffin
Mar 2013
#75
Knowing you're there to report me makes me feel so much more secure, boloboffin.
Octafish
Mar 2013
#93
Good Lord, if I had the power to put you on a list like that, I never would.
Bolo Boffin
Mar 2013
#97
I'd sleep better knowing that no one was above the law, including the president, boloboffin.
Octafish
Mar 2013
#107
As is being pointed out here, Octafish, this power is something Presidents have always had.
Bolo Boffin
Mar 2013
#116
No, the president does not have an 'inherent' power to execute American citizens at will.
Octafish
Mar 2013
#207
No. He does not. The idea that he does is the most despicable BS you've come up with yet.
Bolo Boffin
Mar 2013
#213
What a nice thing to say! And what 9/11 conspiracy theories of mine have you debunked, Bolo Boffin?
Octafish
Mar 2013
#215
Of course he can. Any president can. Look at what happened at Kent State University.
liberal_at_heart
Mar 2013
#79
did the president or governor order those shootings? no. they ordered the national guard out,
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#110
Was there a "shoot" order from the president, governor, or commander of the unit -- or not?
HiPointDem
Mar 2013
#122
They should say: "This authority does not apply unless the nation is experiencing an ongoing attack"
limpyhobbler
Mar 2013
#152
I agree that the authority can be better defined. And have a review process in place.
randome
Mar 2013
#159
Hell, even the Inquisition went to the trouble of holding trials before executions.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Mar 2013
#155
Ordered assassination of Americans is A-OK with loyalists from both parties
just1voice
Mar 2013
#174
No, you're misreading those posts just as you're misreading the Holder letter.
geek tragedy
Mar 2013
#186