Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Gorp

(716 posts)
110. I agree with almost everything you just posted except for the "model for all" line.
Fri Feb 22, 2013, 11:55 AM
Feb 2013

Smaller farmers tend to practice crop rotation that the factory farm model doesn't embrace. Soy and corn should be alternated at least every two years. We're fortunate to have an excellent farmers market with a few stands that make every effort possible to buy as close to local as possible and actively seek out organic produce.

So when corn first becomes available in FL, that's what they start with (and label place of origin) and they work their way up the coast as the season progresses until they're purchasing from small farms in the immediate area. They also grow their own produce when the seasons are right.

And contrary to a popular myth, organic produce is not more expensive to produce and often less so. I walk out of the farmers market with BAGS of produce for what seems like a rediculously small amount of money and I couldn't even estimate how much we save each year by growing our own organic food, but it's a lot. Chemicals are expensive and harm the soil.

We're also fortunate to have a lot of farm stands on back roads around here. That's a great way to get high-quality (tender loving care) produce for a good price. I don't have room for large vining plants like watermelons, crook-neck squash, and sugar pumpkins. I always hand over a little more than they're charging just for their effort.

The problem we have is that people want everything to look pretty, so if corn has silk worms or lettuce has a few brown spots, people don't want to buy it. I remember sorting through kale and collards with my grandparents to look for caterpillars and corn ALWAYS had silk worms. They don't eat much, just cut/pick them out. On the other hand, you do NOT want to compost them. That part you throw out.

A family owned grocery store (I know, a dying breed), small chain, has a tractor symbol they use to identify local produce, and they mean local - often picked the day it goes on sale and delivered directly to each store. The giant chain grocery stores use central warehouses so you're lucky if anything in the produce section is less than a week old. Obviously the more northern states aren't going to have local oranges, and drought hits all farmers equally hard, so transportation is a key element for diversity. But adjusting your diet by the season compensates for a lot of that.

As for raising animals, yes, free-range is optimal but the larger the farm the less likely that is to happen. Factory farms depend on over-crowding, heavy antibiotic use (a problem in its own right), growth hormones, run-off that's destroying waterway ecosystems, dwindling bio-diversity, and factory farms account for most of the corn and soy that's grown in the US as feed for the animals. Ethical issues aside, that's not sustainable in the long-run.

On top of that, the protein ratio (what is consumed vs. what comes out of the meat) is always a net loss. Chicken has the best ratio with something like 5:1 and beef has the worst at around 16:1. Pork falls somewhere in the middle. This is true regardless of whether they graze or get feed meal, but the latter is a major waste of growing space, water, and other resources.

India doesn't have nearly the agricultural advantage we do in the US and relies on importing wheat and rice. Lentils and other legumes grow very well there and they export those. Of their 1.2 billion citizens, about a third are vegetarian (some do dairy, others dairy and eggs as I do) - that's more vegetarians than the entire US population.

Sure, they've got problems with poluted water, poverty, and malnutrition just as we do, but it can safely be argued that the problem stems from industrialization and their caste system rather than their diets. They went through the same sort of squeezing out of small farmers that we're going through, and continue to go through.

There's also a cost advantage. Meat is expensive. Legumes and grains are very inexpensive and will last pretty much indefinitely if kept dry and out of the reach of pests. We use 1/2 gallon mason jars for the purpose. I've still got chick peas from 20 years ago when I bought a 25 lb bag for about $15. They all cook quickly, are convenient, and provide an excellent and easily absorbed protein source. Peanuts are the exception with respect to shelf life.

Amaranth and quinoa are both complete proteins, each on their own. It's almost impossible not to get enough protein as a vegetarian, but I have known a few who live on pizza and diet soda - I'm thinking maybe that's not so healthy.

What we need to do as a society, and even as a world society, is make the mega-aggriculture businesses like Monsanto see that they need to change their approach. As it stands, the US subsidizes the hell out of mega farms and chemical/GMO companies. We need to stop that and prop up the small farmers before they disappear.

Monsanto is throwing lawyers at small farmers who want nothing to do with the company merely because, through no fault of said farmers, their non-GMO crops fell victim to cross-polination from nearby GMO crops or if they fail to purchase more seeds each season, indicating that they're growing from saved seeds (a violation of the "lease" on the DNA). They use "Round-Up Ready" seeds so they also have to purchase large quantities of the chemical for spraying. Yet the weeds are gaining resistance to Round-Up. That house of cards is just waiting to come crashing down.

Food is not intellectual property. Corporations aren't people. Yet the laws we have lean toward giving large corporations the advantage and that's coming at a great cost to our survival security and the well-being of our society. Unless we change that, I cringe to think what things will be like in twenty years.

We grow a lot of our own food, store, can, dry, and freeze a good deal of it, and save seeds for the next season. We've still got a lot of potatoes that we harvested in September. Yet very few people seem to bother with gardening anymore. At least my kids have grown up knowing how to turn bad soil into good and tend to the crops. I just hope that doesn't become a necessity in order to live. I'm not worried about zombies, asteroids, or massive earthquakes, but rather what we are doing to ourselves.

Well that is just unAmerican. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #1
I haven't eaten red meat since 1979 malaise Feb 2013 #12
Me too. I eat birds and fish, but no mammals. RadiationTherapy Feb 2013 #65
"This has diverted vast quantities of grain from human to animal consumption" KamaAina Feb 2013 #2
not to mention the water necessary to feed and "process" the livestock Flaxbee Feb 2013 #13
Just scarfed down a veggie lunch KamaAina Feb 2013 #20
I'm with you. I had pasta with cream of mushroom soup and peas poured over it. It was actually Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author KamaAina Feb 2013 #19
not that difficult to cut out meat 4 to5 days a week, then on to 7 days a week nt msongs Feb 2013 #3
But but but Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #4
Actually, this could be very bad news for cow lovers. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #25
I love beef, but I don't love much of the beef sold in this country CreekDog Feb 2013 #76
You know I was being Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #81
I thought there was a 50-50 chance CreekDog Feb 2013 #83
I know Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #86
sounds good to me quinnox Feb 2013 #5
As a vegetarian, sounds good to me also. n/t RebelOne Feb 2013 #6
So it's time to promote hunting now? alp227 Feb 2013 #7
I despised hunters until I became a vegetarian. Now I respect them. Gorp Feb 2013 #42
yup.I could never be a hunter myself, but the lives the animals lead before death are so much better renate Feb 2013 #78
I hunt & take 2 deer/yr, plus birds & squirrels... Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #93
We should eat more Burmese python. They are a real PITA in FL, and we would be doing FL a favor. nt raccoon Feb 2013 #8
Ha! Yeah, that and nutria. nt valerief Feb 2013 #16
eww! they're just rats that live in the water. nt Viva_La_Revolution Feb 2013 #27
Squirrels are rats in the trees, but superb eating. Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #94
I hear it tastes like chicken ... Bake Feb 2013 #61
I'm doing it... Benton D Struckcheon Feb 2013 #9
I buy organic felix_numinous Feb 2013 #10
But, but, God made the Factory Farmer. Coyotl Feb 2013 #64
We are not vegetarians, but we have cut way way way back gollygee Feb 2013 #11
we have stopped eating meat most of the time too otherone Feb 2013 #14
This describes us. When we're out at somebody's house, we'll eat what's served riderinthestorm Feb 2013 #56
thanks for the reply otherone Feb 2013 #59
We have too. We have already cut our meat consumption at JDPriestly Feb 2013 #24
The only meat I eat are birds and occasionally fish. Is that okay? valerief Feb 2013 #15
Same here - since 1979 malaise Feb 2013 #21
Maybe he should tell the Chinese to cut it out. They lead the world in absolute terms Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #17
People say the same thing about CO2. mattclearing Feb 2013 #75
We don't want there to be a beef gap with the red Chinese! Scootaloo Feb 2013 #77
I didn't even know about the Beef Gap DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #108
It's a fairly simple graph. Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #92
Are you a vegetarian? mattclearing Feb 2013 #109
And they have four times the population of the US wickerwoman Feb 2013 #96
OK two things gollygee Feb 2013 #100
Keep your greasy hands off my filet minion! AAO Feb 2013 #18
Cutting back is good; but meat substitutes are energy intensive FarCenter Feb 2013 #22
Halve the rate of human reproduction. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #23
this. --^-- BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2013 #46
Thanks. Every word of your post is true and hits the real issues. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #74
JDPriestly....gee...thank you ! BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2013 #90
You are great! I'm always in awe of your posts. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #112
Winner! smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #62
I have been trying to eat all of the cows, pigs, birds, and fish, but they keep making more! Dustlawyer Feb 2013 #26
lmao!! darkangel218 Feb 2013 #33
I'll help you! customerserviceguy Feb 2013 #45
How precisely is the premise of the OP religion dressed as science? LanternWaste Feb 2013 #48
I failed to include the sarcasm icon but it was Dustlawyer Feb 2013 #73
First world problems do tend to make us trivialize actual issues LanternWaste Feb 2013 #49
We need to feed cattle with Hemp seeds Politicalboi Feb 2013 #29
Too late DFW Feb 2013 #30
I can think of a good place to start... pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #31
Bwaaaaaaahahahahahaha malaise Feb 2013 #57
No way, no how!! darkangel218 Feb 2013 #32
You will also greatly reduce major animal abuse. judesedit Feb 2013 #34
Where do the WeenieTarians stand on this? Berlum Feb 2013 #35
Whether we want to or not is immaterial now NickB79 Feb 2013 #36
Eliminate it. Meat is not a necessary dietary component. Gorp Feb 2013 #37
No thanks! tritsofme Feb 2013 #50
Thanks for the welcome, but "MEAT IS MURDER" is sort of requisite here. Gorp Feb 2013 #54
Not sure how you figure that Major Nikon Feb 2013 #68
Doesn't PETA use that as one of their slogans? Gorp Feb 2013 #70
TOTALLY on point. nt Raine Feb 2013 #53
Are you a vegehegian too? It takes some work, but we can all do it. Gorp Feb 2013 #55
Agriculture works best when there is balance. FedUpWithIt All Feb 2013 #103
I agree with almost everything you just posted except for the "model for all" line. Gorp Feb 2013 #110
Raising 100% grass-fed animals is GOOD for the environment AlecBGreen Feb 2013 #38
+1 eom arely staircase Feb 2013 #41
+100000000000000 Champion Jack Feb 2013 #43
Allan Savory's "Holistic Pasture Management" is incredible in rebuilding soils... drokhole Feb 2013 #60
thanks for the links AlecBGreen Feb 2013 #97
Whoa, that is freaking awesome! drokhole Feb 2013 #111
Livestock can support sustainable soil management, but I eat vegetables Kolesar Feb 2013 #80
+1 AlecBGreen Feb 2013 #98
My challenge now is to harvest later in the year Kolesar Feb 2013 #102
Yep, far better to raise cows that way. Used to be cheaper Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #95
deer is an excellent choice AlecBGreen Feb 2013 #101
Agreed. n/t FedUpWithIt All Feb 2013 #104
Already on it. kimmylavin Feb 2013 #39
Soylent Green is People! Fedaykin Feb 2013 #40
As an omnivore War Horse Feb 2013 #44
Eat organic free-range birds, eggs, pork and beef. We had already cut back on chicken and beef firenewt Feb 2013 #47
You just keep your pale, pasty and chapped hands off my 'beef, pork, lamb, goat'... ;) eom Purveyor Feb 2013 #51
i gave up beef 5 years ago..... Gato Moteado Feb 2013 #52
Meat is more of a treat than a staple for me RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #58
Same here. GoCubsGo Feb 2013 #69
I didn't think that I could give up meat, but I really enjoy my meat & dairy-free meals emsimon33 Feb 2013 #63
have the horesmeat mixed in your burger scandal spead to the united state dembotoz Feb 2013 #66
Don't know n/t malaise Feb 2013 #67
Healthier also, to eat less meat. n/t area51 Feb 2013 #71
Haven't touched the stuff in at least a decade. n/t ProfessionalLeftist Feb 2013 #72
Good idea. Matariki Feb 2013 #79
Okay, I'll do it. Neoma Feb 2013 #82
I'm not rich but you can have mine... AsahinaKimi Feb 2013 #84
We are just like you malaise Feb 2013 #87
Yay! AsahinaKimi Feb 2013 #88
Message auto-removed CharlieVicker Feb 2013 #85
This is my first reason for not eating meat stuntcat Feb 2013 #89
I'll pass, thank you. Llewlladdwr Feb 2013 #91
Americans read it w/o the l: "Have meat consumption" 0rganism Feb 2013 #99
ROFL - you hae a point but it's not only Americans who can't spell malaise Feb 2013 #105
Seems Moore Lappe was onto something. nt shcrane71 Feb 2013 #106
Great idea.. Kalidurga Feb 2013 #107
Some responses to this are telling. flvegan Mar 2013 #113
LOL malaise Mar 2013 #115
IIRC some vegies such as spinach have much more protein than meat, without the risks Fire Walk With Me Mar 2013 #114
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Halve meat consumption, s...»Reply #110