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joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
161. I find the whole "agent provocateurs" meme to be itself propaganda...
Mon Jan 30, 2012, 03:01 AM
Jan 2012

...intended to divide the Occupy movement, by trying to pit us against one another. As if last night wasn't going to end one way and one way only. People were going to be arrested if they stood toe to toe without expressing their free speech rights. One of the most emblematic images of the protests was a protester throwing back a tear gas canister at the police, with much pain, no doubt, and unwashable paint on their body for later identification. A truly courageous act, likely seen as a felony by the powers that be, and easily denounce by those afraid of "agent provocateurs."

Why no link to his photo? banned from Kos Jan 2012 #1
This is the problem with the 'leaderless' model of organizing Adenoid_Hynkel Jan 2012 #159
We have no way of knowing if these actions had been taken by Occupiers or by Cal33 Jan 2012 #227
That's what always occurs to me as well. nt cyberpj Jan 2012 #244
Would you care to elaborate? elleng Jan 2012 #2
Link to the photo? Joe the Revelator Jan 2012 #3
Are you referring to a splinter group? chowder66 Jan 2012 #4
Just chased this down. Maybe the reference. cachukis Jan 2012 #5
What gristy Jan 2012 #6
I think he photographed occupy burning an american flag but that's based on a quick skim of google Ed Suspicious Jan 2012 #7
Desecration of flags I think. chowder66 Jan 2012 #8
The burning flag pictures? hughee99 Jan 2012 #9
This is why I think protesters who hide their faces are assholes n/t arcane1 Jan 2012 #12
well to be fair 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #63
Exactly, in those situations it's a different story arcane1 Jan 2012 #67
Uh, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. bayareamike Jan 2012 #13
Of course hughee99 Jan 2012 #23
The burden of proof should be proving that these were legitimate OWS protesters Hugabear Jan 2012 #78
I have a sneaking suspicion that may be the case Saokymo Jan 2012 #15
and this is why Occupy needs some sort of structure Adenoid_Hynkel Jan 2012 #160
Lmao Broderick Jan 2012 #31
Wouldn't even have to be police . . . markpkessinger Jan 2012 #35
It's just dumb... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #38
As opposed to being totally beyond the realm of possibility that it IS someone hughee99 Jan 2012 #53
I like this. My story shall be Drahthaardogs Jan 2012 #106
This message was self-deleted by its author chrisa Jan 2012 #186
My first thought, too. Provocateurs. And truth2power Jan 2012 #249
Oh man it's all over for sure now a simple pattern Jan 2012 #10
Maybe the whole thing was a set up.... movonne Jan 2012 #16
It doesn't help them grow the movement hack89 Jan 2012 #44
Lol. No offense, but I've seen your views on OWS. Union Scribe Jan 2012 #72
So you think this is good for them? Ok - good luck with that. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #83
Listen Jack, the movement is here. I hope your support is with us and not for our rhett o rick Jan 2012 #133
Jack? No, that's hack. You must have misread that. pintobean Jan 2012 #137
Ah pintobean. Who do you support? Occupy or the corporate overlords? Or are you one of rhett o rick Jan 2012 #145
Neither, but that's not centrist and it is a decission. pintobean Jan 2012 #151
+1 Broderick Jan 2012 #175
Thanks Rex Jan 2012 #214
So Oakland is Occupy? Shades of the discussion we had in December. Leopolds Ghost Jan 2012 #245
You're with us or you're with the terrorists! TheWraith Jan 2012 #158
At least the outrage this time isn't about blocking traffic. joshcryer Jan 2012 #164
Sean Hannity rhett o rick Jan 2012 #228
Why are you so venomously against OWS? You dont show that "wrath" against those rhett o rick Jan 2012 #229
Will you be wearing a mask when you knock on my door? nt hack89 Jan 2012 #200
Yep, pack it up! Union Scribe Jan 2012 #56
lol thank you for putting this in the correct perspective n/t 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #66
'Cause that was the *death* of the anti-war movement in the '60s. gkhouston Jan 2012 #104
Yeah, actually it pretty much was. TheWraith Jan 2012 #162
exactly. barbtries Jan 2012 #190
THANK you. Zoeisright Jan 2012 #221
I know it turned me off of OWS...NOT! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #199
LOL! Rex Jan 2012 #215
Won't win many favors with folks Saokymo Jan 2012 #11
It's not over. This has already happened elsewhere.... chowder66 Jan 2012 #14
Somehow I doubt it, but thanks for your concern MadHound Jan 2012 #17
This is the age of RW talk radio and Fox MMJjestic Jan 2012 #42
perhaps that's why 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #68
^^^ this mackattack Jan 2012 #188
You mean like they tried here in San Diego nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #218
No they didn't end the anti-war movement Mz Pip Jan 2012 #82
OWS has gone about this the wrong way since about week 3 Joe the Revelator Jan 2012 #18
I was appalled when Atlanta OWS turned away civil rights hero, John Lewis. AtomicKitten Jan 2012 #216
Occupy needs to disavow the flag burning imbeciles. gulliver Jan 2012 #19
I disavow anyone who hides their face arcane1 Jan 2012 #25
It may also signal "I'm trying not to be overcome by tear gas." Union Scribe Jan 2012 #54
The black bloc tactics were originally created to foil police snatch-squads. backscatter712 Jan 2012 #236
I think Occupy 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #73
And why are they covering their faces like a bunch of black bloc chumps? Joe the Revelator Jan 2012 #20
Like these chumps? T S Justly Jan 2012 #33
Is that suppose to make it less chumpy? Joe the Revelator Jan 2012 #37
Nice response Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #41
You are correct - it is wrong to hide behind a mask. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #45
Well said! Rules for thee but not for me! Zalatix Jan 2012 #105
Heh, sweet response. joshcryer Jan 2012 #114
smoke?? dana_b Jan 2012 #48
There is always the chance, however remote, that this sort of action will prompt Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #21
Stupid thing to do nobodyspecial Jan 2012 #22
Exactly. Joe the Revelator Jan 2012 #24
the flag burning unionworks Jan 2012 #95
I wondered if it was a ploy too tawadi Jan 2012 #100
It isn't going to end oppression lovuian Jan 2012 #26
Look at picture two. One guy is holding up a sheet of paper with "Occupy Oakland"... gulliver Jan 2012 #27
That's not evidence of a setup RZM Jan 2012 #32
Mainly the guy with "Occupy Oakland" on his little piece of paper gulliver Jan 2012 #39
Why wouldn't he? It was an occupy Oakland event. RZM Jan 2012 #52
I would like to see the guy with the sign (and big old grin) identified. gulliver Jan 2012 #75
and those people are not occupiers 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #81
chowder66 has a link you might pintobean Jan 2012 #91
"while the other half threatened to leave if they were kicked out" Good. joshcryer Jan 2012 #115
Sounds like infiltrators to me Remember Me Jan 2012 #140
You obviously didn't read the story pintobean Jan 2012 #141
Okay, I read the whole damn thing and wouldn't change a word of what I said Remember Me Jan 2012 #242
The black bloc masked idiots want to discredit OWS, just as they did the anti-globalization movement Adenoid_Hynkel Jan 2012 #163
+1000 ellisonz Jan 2012 #170
Those doing this were either JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #28
As I mentioned in another thread, there is money available to infiltrators Capn Sunshine Jan 2012 #70
Aye, Capn! n/t unionworks Jan 2012 #97
Hi Cap'n!! JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #129
Meh, there's been plenty of bad-looking Occupy photos already and it's still going. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2012 #29
Shooting the messenger? Duer 157099 Jan 2012 #30
Yes...the movement is now dead and the 1% can declare victory. Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #34
I'll trust that was sarcasm. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #61
I didn't think the sarcasm tag was necessary because the premise of the OP is so absurd Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #69
You got post number sixty-nine! HopeHoops Jan 2012 #74
Yay me! Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #80
Always a good thing. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #87
heheheh SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #201
You mean the right wing might start disliking Occupy? Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #36
No, some average people who believe in the overall concepts of OWS nobodyspecial Jan 2012 #40
Do those "average people" live in Oakland? Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #46
Actually, lots of people who are in the 99% have a roof over their heads and food nobodyspecial Jan 2012 #51
I seriously doubt this will shift large numbers of actual supporters. Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #58
you hope it will harm OWS fascisthunter Jan 2012 #113
Where did I say that? nobodyspecial Jan 2012 #131
Your over concern for the flag in light of the brutality suffered by the protestors is sickening. rhett o rick Jan 2012 #134
That's not the point. The right is already against it RZM Jan 2012 #43
No, not just the right wing pintobean Jan 2012 #47
Among the discerning, you might be right RZM Jan 2012 #65
Well said... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #120
No - unengaged Democrats will not extend their support. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #49
Wishful thinking? nt Union Scribe Jan 2012 #50
While I don't approve of such actions, it is protected by the Constitution. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #55
You understand that they burned somebody else's flag, right? dems_rightnow Jan 2012 #59
Yes, that part is both theft and destruction of another's property. That part's a crime. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #71
Perfect tactic for an anti-OWS provocateur Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #57
see my post above Capn Sunshine Jan 2012 #76
And it just got big play from my local news station Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #92
only about 3 people on every occupy post 2pooped2pop Jan 2012 #84
Just say its anarchists......people will say its nothing more than ... Historic NY Jan 2012 #102
+1000 baldguy Jan 2012 #241
City Hall damaged by Occupy protesters Scurrilous Jan 2012 #60
Well regardless of who set the flag on fire, hedgehog Jan 2012 #62
I also remember some wingnut (O'Reilly?) ranting about a "liberal" doing that. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #79
Dang! I'm totally amazed that the 1% didn't think of that! Zorra Jan 2012 #64
Yeah, I've been noticing that too. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #173
Yawn. Sounds more like wishful thinking by a DU'er. nt Bonobo Jan 2012 #77
Injustice will not endure because of pictures. mmonk Jan 2012 #85
I disagree mdmc Jan 2012 #86
I just posted this to Occupy Oakland's Facebook page . . . markpkessinger Jan 2012 #88
I think the more powerful and impactful image is this one... pinboy3niner Jan 2012 #89
Putting it in a nutshell. Thanks pinboy...... socialist_n_TN Jan 2012 #196
That should OUTRAGE every American! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #202
Good luck telling that to the rest of the world. CJCRANE Jan 2012 #90
A member of a church which routinely calls abortion providers "murderers" goes and murders a doctor, zbdent Jan 2012 #93
And again we have a person in dressed all in black EC Jan 2012 #94
This is why I stopped supporting OWS...n/t greytdemocrat Jan 2012 #96
surrre fascisthunter Jan 2012 #111
LOL SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #203
Why am I suspicious that these asshats are police infiltrators? Odin2005 Jan 2012 #98
because they walked free? tiny elvis Jan 2012 #167
I believe this to be the work of someone other than the OWS protesters madokie Jan 2012 #99
Fuckin' Black Bloc blogslut Jan 2012 #101
Someone needs to blame the real villain Broderick Jan 2012 #103
I think displaying a Confederate Flag is just as bad as libinnyandia Jan 2012 #107
Oh, dear! Tsk, tsk. Get the smellin' salts. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #108
LOL mmonk Jan 2012 #181
.... SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #205
This looks like a set up to me. Marrah_G Jan 2012 #109
Just remember that when assessing the supposed Animal Rights "Feldheim Incident" jsmirman Jan 2012 #112
No, But I'm Sure you hope it does fascisthunter Jan 2012 #110
Logic says that this flag burning stunt was staged by an anti-OWS group. AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #116
"OWS is NOT against America.".... exactly! fascisthunter Jan 2012 #117
Please read this pintobean Jan 2012 #118
No true OWSer... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #121
Funny how people who burn things are almost always masked. New7up Jan 2012 #119
Yeah.. that... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #122
+1 No shit. You'd think that after all the shit stirring SomethingFishy Jan 2012 #124
Have you read through this thread? RZM Jan 2012 #138
K&R Major Hogwash Jan 2012 #123
Remember a guy named Parlock a few years ago? 2ndAmForComputers Jan 2012 #125
These things happen. Vattel Jan 2012 #126
"But how many people who would dismiss OWS because......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2012 #198
Well-said. Vattel Jan 2012 #232
if that's all it takes to end the movement Enrique Jan 2012 #127
1st amendment rights. DiverDave Jan 2012 #128
The 1st Amendment doesn't give them the right pintobean Jan 2012 #130
Your right DiverDave Jan 2012 #177
They don't have a right to steal the flag out of city hall to burn nobodyspecial Jan 2012 #132
Shame on you. Shame on you. You might as well shoot teargas canisters at Occupy rhett o rick Jan 2012 #135
You wish. Zhade Jan 2012 #136
i can tell by the gold braid that SwampG8r Jan 2012 #139
Wow. That's a pretty ambitious headline and I'm quite disappointed... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #142
The usual suspects recc'd it too. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2012 #143
What are we suspected of? pintobean Jan 2012 #144
Yes, the correlation is unmistakable. Bonobo Jan 2012 #148
I find the whole "agent provocateurs" meme to be itself propaganda... joshcryer Jan 2012 #161
Overthinking. Bonobo Jan 2012 #166
Sorry, I probably shouldn't have directed that at you. joshcryer Jan 2012 #168
sure, Mikey did it. Whisp Jan 2012 #182
This^ SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #206
+1 whatchamacallit Jan 2012 #235
Really? Rex Jan 2012 #146
Occupy Isn't going away at all. donheld Jan 2012 #147
I'm entirely for Occupy but this image does it no good, however it came about, whoever did it, it NotThisTime Jan 2012 #149
It'll be interesting if the people who actually burned the flag get charged, with names released Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #150
How many months now have we seen the DU soothsayers declare Rex Jan 2012 #152
I'm just wondering if these flag-burners were for real. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #153
Dunno, but I hardly see how it will destroy Rex Jan 2012 #154
I don't think so, either. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #155
The reports I saw said there were pintobean Jan 2012 #156
I agree completely with that. Rex Jan 2012 #157
People were witnessed walking away freely without zip ties from the Y arrests. joshcryer Jan 2012 #165
Shit-smearing OP is shitty. Bonobo Jan 2012 #169
+1000 Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #176
+1000 Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2012 #211
I'm curious, was "casting asparagus" in your last line intended to be humorous? Prometheus Bound Jan 2012 #171
LOL, wishful thinking and beyond absurd OP quinnox Jan 2012 #172
More masked individuals? Really? Firebrand Gary Jan 2012 #174
"But I promise you, no one will think of Occupy the same way ever again after today's AP photos." Bonobo Jan 2012 #178
I'm sure we'll get plenty of opportunity to find out. nt Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #219
Yeah, wishful thinking RetroLounge Jan 2012 #179
The editorial comments of the OP remind me of 'stuff white people said post Watts' Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #180
Probably Agents Provocateurs Octafish Jan 2012 #183
Hit and run tactics. Rex Jan 2012 #207
Are you suggesting that pintobean Jan 2012 #209
Actually I was talking about the people that burnt the flag. Rex Jan 2012 #213
You brought it up. pintobean Jan 2012 #223
No you are insinuating that is what I did. Rex Jan 2012 #225
No structure to it mackattack Jan 2012 #184
Typical anarchist scumbags in these pictures chrisa Jan 2012 #185
My first thought was a segment of a speech, CrispyQ Jan 2012 #187
Do those rights also include entering a building and stealing the flag nobodyspecial Jan 2012 #197
*whoosh* SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #208
Yes, crazy me nobodyspecial Jan 2012 #210
Tea Party mackattack Jan 2012 #189
If these photos impact support of OWS, all OWS has to do is say justiceischeap Jan 2012 #191
This happens when there is no clear mission ecstatic Jan 2012 #192
Yay! Let's blame the media. jpljr77 Jan 2012 #193
no complaints from me.... mike_c Jan 2012 #194
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #233
While I think that burning a flag is sure as hell not going to help Occupy's cause, Arkana Jan 2012 #195
The repugs with some help from the dinos have crapped all over SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #204
You mean just as it ended in 68? nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #212
They hate US for our freedoms. GeorgeGist Jan 2012 #217
That would suggest that the movement has survived so far from support of a morningfog Jan 2012 #220
Tactical boots...on guy in Jean Jacket... Evasporque Jan 2012 #222
Black Bloc extremists--often cops. Occupy should respond by flying Old Glory proudly Bruce Wayne Jan 2012 #224
hmm ... with "facial recognition" software, the cops will probably be able to identify zbdent Jan 2012 #226
Yawn. KamaAina Jan 2012 #230
Man Obamacare Jan 2012 #231
Oh Noes! whatchamacallit Jan 2012 #234
Might this be a Cointelpro Operation? 2banon Jan 2012 #237
A lot of us suspect exactly that, I'd wager Nevernose Jan 2012 #240
That's essentially what was done in the 60's & 70's 2banon Jan 2012 #243
And just in the last decade Nevernose Jan 2012 #247
exactly.. who could forget cointelpro w/WTO, ant-war (iraq/afghan)demos and on and on 2banon Jan 2012 #255
OMG, somebody set a piece of cloth on fire!!! EVERYBODY PANIC!!! backscatter712 Jan 2012 #238
Thanks for your concern! nt LeftyMom Jan 2012 #239
You've got to be kidding me right? Free Speech exercise whether by infiltrator or OWSer end OWS, lonestarnot Jan 2012 #246
Stealing something and burning it is a "free speech exercise"? jberryhill Jan 2012 #251
I was not there. I don't know who stole what. lonestarnot Jan 2012 #256
James O'Keefe, is that you? jmowreader Jan 2012 #248
Diefenbach isn't the one who burned the flag. rocktivity Jan 2012 #250
FYI, there is now video available (link) Robb Jan 2012 #252
Thanks pintobean Jan 2012 #254
And some DUers cheer this because democracy takes too much work Taverner Jan 2012 #253
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