General Discussion

Light House

(413 posts)

149. I thought that I saw a report

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:13 PM

Feb 2013

that they tried to use the cold cannister with no effect.
The bottom line is that Dorner made it crystal clear that he wasn't going to be taken alive and that he had already proven that he would shoot any LEO that tried to capture him.
The police on scene, for whatever reason, deduced that they needed to end a very dangerous situation as soon as possible and they probably figured that the tear gas cannisters used was the best option available.

Until the official inquiry is done, I'll withhold judgement on whether or not it was the correct decision.

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So, how should cops have taken Dorner alive? [View all] nobodyspecial Feb 2013 OP

Surround the cabin with a cordon of 5,000 officers more than 1000 yards away. randome Feb 2013 #1

He'd die from hunger eventually. LisaL Feb 2013 #24

yes, and then the police would be castigated over not delivering pizzas and beer to his front CAG Feb 2013 #28

Exactly. LisaL Feb 2013 #37

You sure seem to have a general dislike of DUers. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #45

Not all DUers. Only some. LisaL Feb 2013 #50

Too many transfats!!!! Don't you CARE how that pig DIED so they could put CAG Feb 2013 #47

No, the complaint would be the pizza was cold. I remember when a prison was going to cold lunches KittyWampus Feb 2013 #119

And don't forget travel money. cliffordu Feb 2013 #181

and how many die in the process? BainsBane Feb 2013 #55

That WAS sarcasm but you make an excellent point also. randome Feb 2013 #127

Chanting to raise the cabin off the ground ... DreamGypsy Feb 2013 #94

Hey, that might work. randome Feb 2013 #128

The Monday morning Quarterback has it easy. baldguy Feb 2013 #2

+1000; lots of tactical armchair experts around here who just KNOW that they could have CAG Feb 2013 #5

I think most of us can agree that Dorner would not be taken alive 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #131

One could argue they could have tried to wait him out. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #3

right because non-incendiary tear gas 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #132

He shot himself rather than leave the building, so for all practical purposes geek tragedy Feb 2013 #134

The problem I'm having is the increasing incidence of violence 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #136

Police reaction to Occupy was 10000 times worse than geek tragedy Feb 2013 #141

I think Dorner just brought more to light is all. 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #148

We know that Dorner was determined to avoid a trial. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #150

nope, but setting the cabin on fire was a bit premature. 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #153

Maybe/ But given how dangerous this guy was a bit premature geek tragedy Feb 2013 #165

You're right. Light House Feb 2013 #154

Great post. Light House Feb 2013 #147

thanks, and I get what you are saying 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #151

You're right about how he was treated as opposed to how he would have Light House Feb 2013 #159

ah, thanks for the correction on burner name 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #161

or the doner could have walked out of the burning house and not shot himself seabeyond Feb 2013 #133

yes, I am particularly interested in the "without further loss of life" part, because out of all CAG Feb 2013 #4

That's what I've been saying all day. Light House Feb 2013 #19

Exactly. He put himself into this situation. If you walk into a bank CAG Feb 2013 #23

Until they develop a knockout gas rather than tear gas Warpy Feb 2013 #6

I'm sorry. my response was rude. didnt mean it the way I said it. response to reply 7 robinlynne Feb 2013 #11

They have "knockout gasses".. sir pball Feb 2013 #183

Exactly, dosage has always been a problem Warpy Feb 2013 #193

Since when did "Bring to justice" become "Burn motherfucker?" rightsideout Feb 2013 #7

OK, bring him to justice nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #8

Ummm, use regular tear gas, not the kind that burns the motherfucker down? EOTE Feb 2013 #144

The FBI, the U.S. Marshal's Service and the San Berdadino PD made these decisions. randome Feb 2013 #146

I never said that the LAPD made those decisions. EOTE Feb 2013 #157

I thought that I saw a report Light House Feb 2013 #149

And the LAPD made it crystal clear they wouldn't take him alive. EOTE Feb 2013 #155

The LAPD had nothing to do with the cabin confrontation. randome Feb 2013 #156

I never said that they did. EOTE Feb 2013 #158

I respectfully disagree. Light House Feb 2013 #162

Those two thoughts are not mutually exclusive. EOTE Feb 2013 #164

Those LAPD officers that shot up vehicles willy nilly Light House Feb 2013 #173

It's the lack of second guessing that has turned PDs across the country into travesties of justice. EOTE Feb 2013 #174

We'll just have to see things differently. Light House Feb 2013 #176

Likewise. NT EOTE Feb 2013 #177

It was tear gas that set the place on fire. He punked out and shot himself. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author robinlynne Feb 2013 #10

Ah, the police of America have no experience with standoffs! backscatter712 Feb 2013 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author randome Feb 2013 #20

+1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #43

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #110

Thank you. NT EOTE Feb 2013 #145

The LAPD is already lying Politicalboi Feb 2013 #13

This wasn't even an LAPD op. Light House Feb 2013 #27

Bottom line? Light House Feb 2013 #14

There's always the argument (not that I agree with it) that kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #40

Dorner had every opportunity to surrender during his week on the run. Light House Feb 2013 #52

He was not acting rationally - that much is obvious. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #71

I think you just hit on the problem. Light House Feb 2013 #74

The "they" that shot up the women in the truck were not the "they" who used an APV to tear down MADem Feb 2013 #118

i think some feel it was worth the loss of a few other lives to take him alive JI7 Feb 2013 #15

those are only cop's lives BainsBane Feb 2013 #58

Some of us feel that the tactics that the cops did use put lives at risk. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #75

How would they have handled it if he had a hostage? RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #16

SWAT would have been sent in to storm the house. That usually involves shooting the suspect. stevenleser Feb 2013 #67

Thanks for the answer RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #72

What happened in the standoff where the boy was being held? nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #138

There are two different, but related issues. jerseyjack Feb 2013 #17

Does the name Timothy Dale Johnson ring a bell? onenote Feb 2013 #21

+100. nt CAG Feb 2013 #26

The point is, Johnson was given the opportunity to surrender and did not. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #33

The guy was on the run for days. He made no effort to surrender. onenote Feb 2013 #39

Dorner was not right in the head. He believed that he kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #68

so you do understand now that he WAS given plenty of opportunities to surrender, right? uppityperson Feb 2013 #87

So, the fact that he was fucked in the head means they deprived him of due geek tragedy Feb 2013 #95

they threw loudspeakers into the cabin asking him to surrender TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #188

No, they stopped him from killing other people. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #65

They shouldn't have set fire to the cabin Taverner Feb 2013 #18

Setting fire to cabin (possibly after he shot himself). Sniper. What exactly is the difference? onenote Feb 2013 #22

Sniper doesn't have the chance of starting an enormous wildfire. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2013 #32

So that's what all the outrage is about? The risk of a wildfire? Good one! onenote Feb 2013 #41

It was during winter with lots of snow around. Light House Feb 2013 #83

The sniper sees who he is shooting and can shoot to incapacitate. tinrobot Feb 2013 #102

Burned it indiscriminately. Light House Feb 2013 #109

They still haven't identified the body. tinrobot Feb 2013 #137

There's not much doubt about it being Dorner. Light House Feb 2013 #140

Seriously? How often does that happen? Do you have some examples? onenote Feb 2013 #121

I am not an expert. NCTraveler Feb 2013 #25

Sound cannons? damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #29

"as soon as he's out pounce and arrest." nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #35

From Wikipedia damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #76

Well, you and Wikipedia know more than those in the field nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #139

Surround him and wait for him to get hungry and thirsty and come out with kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #30

Do you know for a fact that there wasn't food and water in that cabin? onenote Feb 2013 #49

It was a commercial rental cabin in a group of same. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #70

He was not going to come out Sissyk Feb 2013 #160

Well, nobodyspecial, an hour has passed and I don't see anybody answering your excellent CAG Feb 2013 #31

Sound cannons damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #44

S o u n d c a n n o n s...... CAG Feb 2013 #54

laugh it up but damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #57

but then there would be endless threads about the torture he was enduring. CAG Feb 2013 #62

Way to move that goalpost! EOTE Feb 2013 #182

Really? You think he would have come out with his hands up? onenote Feb 2013 #122

Well, I only ask this because I have loved ones in law enforcement nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #46

Interestingly, there was yet another OP at 10:53 tonight once again heavily CAG Feb 2013 #69

Several people have answered. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #81

They had control over his supply of food and water jeff47 Feb 2013 #34

Then the same posters would be screaming that police are starving Dorner to death and demanding LisaL Feb 2013 #36

Only in your head. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2013 #38

Really? So you would be just fine if they cut off his supply of water, he had no food, and LisaL Feb 2013 #42

Dehydration takes about 3-4 days to kill. jeff47 Feb 2013 #48

I am absolutely positive one can last quite a bit longer than 3-4 days without water. LisaL Feb 2013 #53

He didn't have the motivation to surrender when he was trapped in that cabin? What do you think onenote Feb 2013 #56

They would have killed him no matter what. AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #112

He had had that option for about a week, but decided to kill innocent people instead. CAG Feb 2013 #59

Information on how long one can survive without water. onenote Feb 2013 #61

Did the cabin have a toilet? There's 5 gallons in the tank... SidDithers Feb 2013 #123

agreed onenote Feb 2013 #124

He would have had plenty of water anyway TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #189

Yep, I don't know why people keep depicting this as some remote cabin nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #195

It takes a week to 10 days to die of dehydration, not 3-4. And he had lots of times and motivation uppityperson Feb 2013 #90

How do you ensure he doesn't escape during the evening. How many days do you surround onenote Feb 2013 #51

I think for some, it really doesn't matter if more cops died nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #60

How long 'till he runs out of water?... SidDithers Feb 2013 #63

It's not up to the "armchair strategists" to have an answer Glamrock Feb 2013 #64

They could have set up a perimiter and simply waited, there was no where for Dorner to go! DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #66

Wait him out. Even lunatics get hungry. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #73

Watch your suggestion get ignored. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #78

Since he had a gun, setting up a perimeter LisaL Feb 2013 #79

Lots of perps with guns have been contained and captured or killed with conventional tactics. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #82

So it's perfectly fine for a perp to be killed, as long as tactics are conventional? LisaL Feb 2013 #84

Setting the house on fire. Reckless endangerment in general. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #91

And how many resources go into keeping him there? mythology Feb 2013 #135

All these threads about Dorner - lynne Feb 2013 #77

Yeah, let's get the names, so Dorner truthers can harass them jberryhill Feb 2013 #92

Here's a post about the latest victims in reply to one Cha Feb 2013 #105

Did they bother trying? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #80

Well, if that someone wasn't setting out to kill them, maybe they would be more inclined to try. LisaL Feb 2013 #85

And it's clear you're fine with them not being inclined to at all. nt Union Scribe Feb 2013 #86

I don't believe that it could have been done in a safe manner. LisaL Feb 2013 #88

And it's clear that you're fine that Dorner Light House Feb 2013 #96

Dorner had murdered a cop that morning rather than surrender. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #89

Stop trying to paint DUers who disagree with you Union Scribe Feb 2013 #93

People are claiming that he was deprived of due process when geek tragedy Feb 2013 #99

"idiotic" is probably the kindest thing you've called DUers lately. nt Union Scribe Feb 2013 #101

People are proclaiming him a murder victim. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #103

He had already tried to leave the cabin but they pushed him back in, I guess using guns. dkf Feb 2013 #98

And if he did kill himself Union Scribe Feb 2013 #100

Well if you think there is no downside to his escaping then I guess so. dkf Feb 2013 #104

That doesn't follow at all Union Scribe Feb 2013 #107

I'm incredulous that you don't see they had an urgency because he could have escaped. dkf Feb 2013 #113

He killed himself only because he realized he couldn't kill any more cops. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #108

So why torch him? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #111

They didn't move in. Instead of sending people, they sent tear gas cannisters in. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #115

The police used to have people called "negotiators" Canuckistanian Feb 2013 #97

Did Dahmer, Manson, or Gacy resist arrest by shooting at officers when they approached? onenote Feb 2013 #180

Well... AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #106

Maybe the cops should hire, I dunno, hostage situation & seige experts. Bucky Feb 2013 #114

I dunno damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #116

Siege. Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #117

I'll bet they have gas canisters with sleeping gas in them 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #120

Moscow Theater siege onenote Feb 2013 #125

It would be difficult to administer a precise dosage 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #191

Taking him Alive Would Mean a Trial Macoy51 Feb 2013 #126

His 'allegations' were bullshit. randome Feb 2013 #129

Are you serious?!?!? nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #142

+1 onenote Feb 2013 #169

If he wanted a trial onenote Feb 2013 #167

You can't say that on DU! .. haven't you been warned? 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #190

He had limited food, ammunitions 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #130

So you don't mind his dying onenote Feb 2013 #166

I don't like the idea 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #170

Frozen in carbonite Capt. Obvious Feb 2013 #143

They could have waited him out. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #152

For how long? onenote Feb 2013 #163

I don't know how much food he had. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #168

So it would be okay if he kills himself after getting really hungry onenote Feb 2013 #171

Well, I don't know if "okay" is the right word. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #175

So far it seems as if this whole thread has been pretty Light House Feb 2013 #178

I agree. I think we all understand that we are missing many details, ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #179

Oh, you said without further loss of life Progressive dog Feb 2013 #172

Without further ado I proudly present the answer. damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #184

Simple answer -- that was never Dorner's plan BlueStreak Feb 2013 #185

"There are other questions that legitimately should be asked about the LAPD." nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #186

Particularly Aerows Feb 2013 #194

Great post. Light House Feb 2013 #187

By him surrendering michigandem58 Feb 2013 #192