General Discussion

beevul

(12,194 posts)

160. Theres so much wrong with your argument I almost don't know where to begin.

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:39 PM

Feb 2013

"Here you see people insisting that the police should have brought Dorner in alive, that he should have stood trial, despite the fact he refused to surrender and was shooting that them."

Thats HAD shot at them, not "was shooting at them. Morally (to those that aren't bloodthirsty vigilante justice seekers) and legally those are two different things. There was no shooting going on when the fire was lit. Facts matter. Well, to most of us anyway.

Your first link is to an entire thread.

Your second link is to an entire thread - the same one, in fact.

Your third link quotes a poster saying "We who live with the LAPD every day have LONG referred to them as gang members with badges." That statemnent does not exactly support dorner.

Firewalkwithme is right. It IS about police corruption.

The poster you mentioned that compared "Dorner with Che Guevara", actually didn't.

You are not making any successful arguments with this.

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Highlight:

Dorner's con game worked [View all] BainsBane Feb 2013 OP

Can we not recognize and abhor the corruption and incompetence of the LAPD .. ananda Feb 2013 #1

Yes BainsBane Feb 2013 #2

I was pointing that out on other threads, this is a blanket sort of OP I think Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #5

I'm glad you have done that BainsBane Feb 2013 #7

Well yes, you do have a point there. Personally I think its overall a reaction to how much Badwill Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #13

and that is exactly what Dorner was playing on BainsBane Feb 2013 #17

Oh I agree totally. He was very good at milking the hostility to the LAPD Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #19

Call it S.B.C. d06204 Feb 2013 #146

So is it possible to recognize both--that Dorner was a seriously disturbed individual Skidmore Feb 2013 #20

I agree BainsBane Feb 2013 #26

We are. you are interpreting what we say. There is noone here on DU who defends what DOrner did. robinlynne Feb 2013 #186

You are excusing it BainsBane Feb 2013 #190

NO I did not. robinlynne Feb 2013 #192

If I had a heart tblue Feb 2013 #61

Why do you think Dorner did what he did? JDPriestly Feb 2013 #87

I can't recall seeing anyone theKed Feb 2013 #31

I saw none. I saw Duers discussing his manifesto. discussing the LAPd. dsicussing what caused ALL of robinlynne Feb 2013 #56

that you imagine the LAPD caused this BainsBane Feb 2013 #68

You missed the five years in Court. And the other 2 officers who already came forward robinlynne Feb 2013 #75

so you are saying anyone who loses a HR case BainsBane Feb 2013 #81

no. I am not. I am saying people who go through living hell for 5 years come out of it robinlynne Feb 2013 #129

No way BainsBane Feb 2013 #163

and yet that is what person after person who knew him says on tv. and every single photograph. robinlynne Feb 2013 #165

Oh, like the serial killers BainsBane Feb 2013 #166

because he was fired from the LAPD? and in Court against the LAPD? could be. robinlynne Feb 2013 #169

well he was a spree killer BainsBane Feb 2013 #170

He is one now. He was not until a week ago. robinlynne Feb 2013 #176

and, these were murders, cold blooded murders, not like a sniper shooting anyone in sight. robinlynne Feb 2013 #177

a sniper isn't cold blooded BainsBane Feb 2013 #179

I haven't heard anyone that thinks the LAPD is responsible for his action. AAO Feb 2013 #112

The response right below yours. BainsBane Feb 2013 #161

Nothing in my post says the LAPD is responsible for his action. I don't think that. nor does anyone robinlynne Feb 2013 #181

You said the LAPD caused his actions BainsBane Feb 2013 #187

NO I DID NOT. I specifically DID NOT. robinlynne Feb 2013 #189

so don't you think BainsBane Feb 2013 #195

I think the five years is much more likely. no idea though. robinlynne Feb 2013 #203

only you keep saying that. This is your thing. Do you come form an LAPD family/ Something that is robinlynne Feb 2013 #191

No, not at all BainsBane Feb 2013 #194

This is the first post where you seem human. I dont sympathize with Dorner. robinlynne Feb 2013 #204

Your entire argument is based on a DU post? AAO Feb 2013 #221

It's based on a series of posts BainsBane Feb 2013 #222

Yeah, that was a bit of a stretch AAO Feb 2013 #223

Oh Really? bvar22 Feb 2013 #83

I'm waiting too HangOnKids Feb 2013 #94

so you thought BainsBane Feb 2013 #183

+1 robinlynne Feb 2013 #132

+1 beevul Feb 2013 #149

I have provided links throughout this thread BainsBane Feb 2013 #182

I never saw anything at all like that. nt. polly7 Feb 2013 #137

Which just goes to show there are crazy people on both sides of the political aisle. Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #147

Then you are not looking. robinlynne Feb 2013 #22

Kind of a lame response....................... firenewt Feb 2013 #117

to a "deserving" post. robinlynne Feb 2013 #121

it's because you're only seeing what you want to see.. frylock Feb 2013 #104

There are 27 recs BainsBane Feb 2013 #158

You need glasses. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #106

Then you are seeing the post through fire colored glasses... Taverner Feb 2013 #157

That's my stance, but I've witnessed what the OP is talking about. nt EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #9

That would require nuance - that's a difficult thing! backscatter712 Feb 2013 #29

Spot on! The LAPD has a long history of corruption and abuse of power, DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #46

not only does it not excuse his actions BainsBane Feb 2013 #49

True, however the reality that he is a murderer does not invalidate the long history of coruption DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #53

no, I never said it did BainsBane Feb 2013 #59

Sorry, I miss understood your point. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #77

I'm sure he was full of rage BainsBane Feb 2013 #85

True! The average person would not go on a killing spree because of that DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #91

Nothing explains his actions. They caused the anger which resulted in his actions. robinlynne Feb 2013 #143

you just explained his actions BainsBane Feb 2013 #167

That is the story we know, so far, from the witnesses who knew him on tv. I'm sure we know very litt robinlynne Feb 2013 #175

All information about DOrner's history available up till now indicates that you are incorrect. robinlynne Feb 2013 #138

I dont think you studied psychology, did you? robinlynne Feb 2013 #135

I agree with you. myrna minx Feb 2013 #110

That is exactly how I feel marlakay Feb 2013 #224

Yes, if we're not simplistic idiots. Apparently that's asking too much of some. DirkGently Feb 2013 #228

+1 dlwickham Feb 2013 #3

all of his life is others peoples fault.... ah, a hero. seabeyond Feb 2013 #4

Let me direct you to the Rude Pundit, for he addresses your concerns most admirably. . . Journeyman Feb 2013 #6

It isn't that people can't hold two thoughts. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #11

The impact of LAPD's racism and corruption on him is not an "unrelated fact". kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #115

It may be related, but is irrelevant. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #118

If it's related, it's relevant. And because he is dead and never got the benefit of a trial, kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #171

Know how he could have gotten a trial? Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #201

We knew from the actions of the LAPD in the first days of this, DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #51

Mental health care treatment might stop some of these The Second Stone Feb 2013 #8

I agree 100% BainsBane Feb 2013 #10

I have known people who were extremely depressed because they lost their jobs due JDPriestly Feb 2013 #96

+1 A Little Weird Feb 2013 #211

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #12

i thought I was the only one..... CatWoman Feb 2013 #16

No sweetheart HangOnKids Feb 2013 #69

You aren't. beevul Feb 2013 #151

Hey he's making ice cream out of bullshit hootinholler Feb 2013 #18

Thank you. n/t MuseRider Feb 2013 #40

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Zoeisright Feb 2013 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #79

18 hidden posts! HangOnKids Feb 2013 #97

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #102

18 hidden posts is just so fucking amazing! HangOnKids Feb 2013 #108

I Tried To Read Them HangOnKids Feb 2013 #111

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #122

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Feb 2013 #127

The manifesto just grabbed people. NCTraveler Feb 2013 #14

LAPD shooting up trucks full of civilians didnt help much. robinlynne Feb 2013 #210

As I stated in another post regarding Dorner justiceischeap Feb 2013 #15

but some here do BainsBane Feb 2013 #28

Even though yesterday was handled by SB Sheriff's justiceischeap Feb 2013 #33

insanity is an affirmative defense BainsBane Feb 2013 #35

"I have much more sympathy..." justiceischeap Feb 2013 #39

so do I, as a matter of fact BainsBane Feb 2013 #44

Honestly Aerows Feb 2013 #256

and yet when asked to link to these posts where he is glorified & his killings justified, no one HiPointDem Feb 2013 #50

I have provided links to the points I made in the OP BainsBane Feb 2013 #58

a link to yet another OP by *you* is not a link to posters justifying the killings. nadin had never HiPointDem Feb 2013 #64

You aren't paying attention BainsBane Feb 2013 #71

blah blah. you're making lots of accusations and the links you posted don't support this latest HiPointDem Feb 2013 #244

Look at the posts toward the end BainsBane Feb 2013 #250

James Holmes did write some sort of "manifesto" or whatever you can call it. LisaL Feb 2013 #21

he didn't play to the public BainsBane Feb 2013 #36

Dorner was a disgruntled worker who decided on a 2nd amendment solution. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #23

Alex Lanza? ...nt TeeYiYi Feb 2013 #24

Dude, you just have on/off switches. No dimmer, no granular dial... Taverner Feb 2013 #25

You're mistaken BainsBane Feb 2013 #41

Don't Stop The Outrage HangOnKids Feb 2013 #100

You know, Rampart was real nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #27

yes, and . . . ? BainsBane Feb 2013 #32

I see, recognizing the issues nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #37

the issue is separate from Dorner's murder spree BainsBane Feb 2013 #42

The only thing related is that he mentioned well known nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #43

and you repeat them BainsBane Feb 2013 #45

What I am repeating is well known police scandals nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #47

I don't dispute that BainsBane Feb 2013 #52

what you are missing, by at least 8 light seconds nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #55

Why are you going on about police corruption then? BainsBane Feb 2013 #65

Cause I can walk and chew gum at the same time. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #123

Wrong again. zappaman Feb 2013 #229

"NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND wants to have ANY contact with the LAPD" zappaman Feb 2013 #226

You're confusing looking at reasons (motive) with justification... truth2power Feb 2013 #60

yet many here argue BainsBane Feb 2013 #70

"Many here" is a known foxism nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #136

He's just a RW shitstirring troll, IMHO. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #124

Nothing to do with being a troll, RW or otherwise, nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #128

I agree 100%, LAPD is a corrupt organization which abuses it's power and oath to the public. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #86

WTF? I've followed the story on DU, HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #30

Others in this thread have seen it BainsBane Feb 2013 #34

BS. Corruption, racism, and excessive force have existed in LAPD for ages. HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #48

I agree with that latter point BainsBane Feb 2013 #57

I agree his motivation was revenge, not exposing corruption. HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #95

I agree with that BainsBane Feb 2013 #99

You are absolutely right on this. zappaman Feb 2013 #231

Thanks BainsBane Feb 2013 #233

I dislike guns and violence and do not condone his actions. I DO know LAPD are a shit hole Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #38

If I had a heart tblue Feb 2013 #63

What on EARTH are you wittering on about sibelian Feb 2013 #54

everyone who thinks his murders are motivated by police corruption BainsBane Feb 2013 #62

We need a thread like this to tell people to hate and not question? tblue Feb 2013 #66

what are you talking about? BainsBane Feb 2013 #72

Tell that to the blind haters of police. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #74

Where are the people here on DU cheering on Dorner the mass murderer? sibelian Feb 2013 #78

I Want the Same Answer HangOnKids Feb 2013 #113

It never happens. sibelian Feb 2013 #114

The OP has 9 hidden posts HangOnKids Feb 2013 #120

I'm not surpirsed. Nothing but obfuscation. sibelian Feb 2013 #126

But But But they are trying really hard HangOnKids Feb 2013 #130

big NRA fan are you? BainsBane Feb 2013 #219

You have my full permission to project onto me whatever values you may wish to assume. sibelian Feb 2013 #245

and? BainsBane Feb 2013 #154

Gossiping? I've posted what I felt. Guns rights really? HangOnKids Feb 2013 #207

You didn't once post a response to me BainsBane Feb 2013 #213

Did it occur to you I DID not want to talk with you? HangOnKids Feb 2013 #215

No one forced you to enter this thread BainsBane Feb 2013 #216

No one is forcing me to talk with you either HangOnKids Feb 2013 #217

LOL BainsBane Feb 2013 #218

that's one way to establish you have BainsBane Feb 2013 #249

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #119

go ahead and backup your bullshit accusations.. frylock Feb 2013 #125

Nobody is cheering him on. And YOU come live under LAPD and see how badly they kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #139

I'd like an actual link to a post cheering on Dorner. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #148

... sibelian Feb 2013 #67

why the five year delay? BainsBane Feb 2013 #76

What is going on in your brain? sibelian Feb 2013 #88

you are the one who insisted we believe Dorner's writings BainsBane Feb 2013 #92

Do you believe, then, that he had other reasons for his actions? nt sibelian Feb 2013 #101

the timing is instructive BainsBane Feb 2013 #103

OK. sibelian Feb 2013 #107

no, nor do I think justification and reason for acting are the same BainsBane Feb 2013 #159

"nor do I think justification and reason for acting are the same - you evidently do" sibelian Feb 2013 #246

the credence you place in the manifesto BainsBane Feb 2013 #248

So sibelian Feb 2013 #252

enough said BainsBane Feb 2013 #253

"So yeah, you just confirmed you cannot tell the difference between justification and reason" sibelian Feb 2013 #255

I think it might be worth your re-reading my original response to you. sibelian Feb 2013 #257

have you read his letter? hvae you heard the other two policemen who came forward in the robinlynne Feb 2013 #80

You've got screws loose if you don't see a relationship between Dorner's killing spree and kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #131

I think they understand, the OP particularly TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #209

"plausibly ignore any issue the spree murderer mentioned" sibelian Feb 2013 #247

... and I would argue that you've fallen for the PR of the LAPD/police-authority complex. Myrina Feb 2013 #82

I agree LiberalLovinLug Feb 2013 #193

I wished I lived in your black-and-white world. egduj Feb 2013 #84

It's not black and white BainsBane Feb 2013 #89

By your own logic you have fallen for Dorner's con nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #150

I can't begin to understand BainsBane Feb 2013 #162

You are right, but the straw men are getting taller and taller nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #164

One should believe or not believe, based on whether or not that handcuffed man was kicked robinlynne Feb 2013 #198

Just because one doesn't support street justice doesn't mean they support a maniac. Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #90

derpy derp derp.. frylock Feb 2013 #93

Yes, actually BainsBane Feb 2013 #98

yes, please do compile a list of each individual poster that believes that.. frylock Feb 2013 #109

So you should post links, as people are asking you to do, because accusing with characterizations Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #141

You just keep right on with that black and white thinking of yours - though it kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #105

I agree BainsBane Feb 2013 #140

Links to each of these assertions please nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #168

not that you'll bother reading BainsBane Feb 2013 #172

One, that could pass hardly makes some, let alone nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #173

that's your response to every example BainsBane Feb 2013 #241

You either have an overactive imagination, or you have been punked by kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #174

here BainsBane Feb 2013 #178

Links to posters who think Dorner's lift was worth more, please. nt RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #116

this thread BainsBane Feb 2013 #152

Theres so much wrong with your argument I almost don't know where to begin. beevul Feb 2013 #160

Links? nt. polly7 Feb 2013 #133

I've provided links throughout this thread BainsBane Feb 2013 #134

To this?: polly7 Feb 2013 #142

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #144

where are the links to the 'many' posts that you claim to have seen? Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #145

I've provided links throughout this thread BainsBane Feb 2013 #155

Linking to entire threads where you agains just say 'some defend' is not what I asked for. Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #202

What about the lives of the civilians the cops gunned down KamaAina Feb 2013 #153

it is possible for the police to be corrupt BainsBane Feb 2013 #200

Yes. KamaAina Feb 2013 #205

??? !!! cer7711 Feb 2013 #156

I have taken it up with them BainsBane Feb 2013 #185

I think he actually believed his delusions TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #180

How about two other ex officers nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #208

Now we won't truly know anything. Lady Freedom Returns Feb 2013 #184

that's true BainsBane Feb 2013 #188

192 posts; 32 recs... Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #196

What's the evidence that he was psychotic? HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #197

If I wrote psychotic, that was in error BainsBane Feb 2013 #199

goggled it. interesting. makes sense. robinlynne Feb 2013 #206

he clearly wasn't psychotic BainsBane Feb 2013 #220

We aren't fucking morons jeff47 Feb 2013 #212

yes and I have said so repeatedly BainsBane Feb 2013 #214

Some people blow goats jeff47 Feb 2013 #235

For those looking for examples of my point in the OP BainsBane Feb 2013 #225

Dorner was a mentally ill man with a grudge, not a con. It wasn't a game to him. PDJane Feb 2013 #227

He brought more attention to how corrupt the LAPD is. Incitatus Feb 2013 #230

One difference I see BainsBane Feb 2013 #232

Another example: BainsBane Feb 2013 #234

Dorner killed innocent people. mia Feb 2013 #236

Yet another example BainsBane Feb 2013 #237

Still beating the same old dead horse; find something else to get your knickers twisted over. PDJane Feb 2013 #238

You ask for evidence BainsBane Feb 2013 #239

Nope. I didn't ask for evidence. PDJane Feb 2013 #240

I agree but there are also many prejudices at work here. great white snark Feb 2013 #242

yes, I had not previously been aware of that BainsBane Feb 2013 #243

Actually, James Holmes does have a fan club. Fawke Em Feb 2013 #251

on DU? BainsBane Feb 2013 #254