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quinnox

(20,600 posts)
27. Some objections and reasons against drones
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:18 PM
Feb 2013

It is hard for us living in relative luxury in the West to understand what it is like to have drones flying around and not knowing when they will strike. The psychological toll must be considerable, you can hear an Apache helicopter from a long ways away, you can't hear a drone.

Here is a good explanation I found on a web site:

In the United States, the dominant narrative about the use of drones in Pakistan is of a surgically precise and effective tool that makes the US safer by enabling “targeted killing” of terrorists, with minimal downsides or collateral impacts.[1]

This narrative is false.

Following nine months of intensive research—including two investigations in Pakistan, more than 130 interviews with victims, witnesses, and experts, and review of thousands of pages of documentation and media reporting—this report presents evidence of the damaging and counterproductive effects of current US drone strike policies. Based on extensive interviews with Pakistanis living in the regions directly affected, as well as humanitarian and medical workers, this report provides new and firsthand testimony about the negative impacts US policies are having on the civilians living under drones.

First, while civilian casualties are rarely acknowledged by the US government, there is significant evidence that US drone strikes have injured and killed civilians.

Second, US drone strike policies cause considerable and under-accounted-for harm to the daily lives of ordinary civilians, beyond death and physical injury. Drones hover twenty-four hours a day over communities in northwest Pakistan, striking homes, vehicles, and public spaces without warning. Their presence terrorizes men, women, and children, giving rise to anxiety and psychological trauma among civilian communities. Those living under drones have to face the constant worry that a deadly strike may be fired at any moment, and the knowledge that they are powerless to protect themselves. These fears have affected behavior. The US practice of striking one area multiple times, and evidence that it has killed rescuers, makes both community members and humanitarian workers afraid or unwilling to assist injured victims. Some community members shy away from gathering in groups, including important tribal dispute-resolution bodies, out of fear that they may attract the attention of drone operators. Some parents choose to keep their children home, and children injured or traumatized by strikes have dropped out of school. Waziris told our researchers that the strikes have undermined cultural and religious practices related to burial, and made family members afraid to attend funerals. In addition, families who lost loved ones or their homes in drone strikes now struggle to support themselves.

Third, publicly available evidence that the strikes have made the US safer overall is ambiguous at best.

Fourth, current US targeted killings and drone strike practices undermine respect for the rule of law and international legal protections and may set dangerous precedents. This report casts doubt on the legality of strikes on individuals or groups not linked to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, and who do not pose imminent threats to the US. The US government’s failure to ensure basic transparency and accountability in its targeted killing policies, to provide necessary details about its targeted killing program, or adequately to set out the legal factors involved in decisions to strike hinders necessary democratic debate about a key aspect of US foreign and national security policy. US practices may also facilitate recourse to lethal force around the globe by establishing dangerous precedents for other governments. As drone manufacturers and officials successfully reduce export control barriers, and as more countries develop lethal drone technologies, these risks increase.

In light of these concerns, this report recommends that the US conduct a fundamental re-evaluation of current targeted killing practices, taking into account all available evidence, the concerns of various stakeholders, and the short and long-term costs and benefits. A significant rethinking of current US targeted killing and drone strike policies is long overdue. US policy-makers, and the American public, cannot continue to ignore evidence of the civilian harm and counter-productive impacts of US targeted killings and drone strikes in Pakistan.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I shortened it up, so for more detail check out the full report > http://livingunderdrones.org/

we're not using Apache helicopters for targeted strikes n/t Enrique Feb 2013 #1
We aren't? WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #2
actually we might be Enrique Feb 2013 #8
Uh... EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #3
Yes, we do. All the time. Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #55
As far as I'm concerned, there is no difference life long demo Feb 2013 #4
I keep thinking about a scene from MASH-- a pilot is talking to hawkeye, bragging about what niyad Feb 2013 #5
I remember that episode. Made an impression for sure! bullwinkle428 Feb 2013 #16
this sums it up right here frylock Feb 2013 #35
No difference. And, those that fire the missiles should be held accountable in a court of law. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #6
an apache helicopter flying over LA would raise some eyebrows tk2kewl Feb 2013 #7
Really? WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #9
You-tube video of apache helicopters flying over LA... Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #10
Actually that did raise a lot of eyebrows at the time Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #14
Technically those aren't Apache helicopters. Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #57
The drone is cheaper and more expendable, and all the more likely to be overused and abused. leveymg Feb 2013 #11
The same could be said of every weapon advance. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #24
I would argue that never before has assassination been so cheap, easy and seemingly safe. leveymg Feb 2013 #49
The only thing I can think of is that no US pilot is placed in harm's way when ... 11 Bravo Feb 2013 #12
One of the criticisms of modern warfare, Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #13
Not that it matters their may be one difference...... wandy Feb 2013 #15
and they never, EVER, have to come face to face with the carnage they have engendered. niyad Feb 2013 #41
Our enemies (and we are making more by the day) can far more easily duplicate drones than Apaches Fumesucker Feb 2013 #17
Will, I think it is the human reaction to "no skin in the game".... catnhatnh Feb 2013 #18
I don't like that these are targeted assassinations. rosesaylavee Feb 2013 #19
A quote by Robert E. Lee captures the gist of my opposition. Uncle Joe Feb 2013 #20
A sport is something that cannot be done while smoking. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #21
OK, you made me spit my coffee Jersey Devil Feb 2013 #23
Part of the problem may be that the Hellfire is overkill. Motown_Johnny Feb 2013 #22
The smaller one just came online. sir pball Feb 2013 #51
The moral choice would be to send strike teams to capture enemies. joshcryer Feb 2013 #25
maybe if we actually had to send real people, we would be a damned sight more careful about niyad Feb 2013 #43
Absolutely. joshcryer Feb 2013 #46
The only difference between the two weapon systems is that one is operated remotely.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #26
I would think a drone "pilot" could see a lot more than a pilot flying a plane Jersey Devil Feb 2013 #28
Oh, I agree, but.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #29
The pilot doesn't shoot based on witnessing "crimes" in progress. The pilot shoots Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #38
Some objections and reasons against drones quinnox Feb 2013 #27
Thank you, I was going to look for this but you already posted.... Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #36
thank you. would you consider reposting this as its own thread so it can be rec'd? niyad Feb 2013 #45
you can, it isn't my work quinnox Feb 2013 #50
Rachel Maddow had a great episode regarding this on... Little Star Feb 2013 #30
I refuse to accept the necessity of The War on Terror, so I am for neither. mikeytherat Feb 2013 #31
Is the problem truly the drones? hughee99 Feb 2013 #32
I dont buy your logic. The choice isnt either drones or 150 k troops. rhett o rick Feb 2013 #33
+1 Union Scribe Feb 2013 #52
It's about secret kill lists and turning the entire planet into a battlefield whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #34
A 24/7 terror campaign. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #37
Chris Hayes on the "no-alternative" fallacy for justifying drones Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #39
+ 1,000,000,000... What You And Chris Hayes Said !!! WillyT Feb 2013 #40
Brilliant. Thanks for posting that. nt Union Scribe Feb 2013 #53
they were both used to murder dorner? arely staircase Feb 2013 #42
The latest argument r.e. drones doesn't center on drones v. helicopters DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #44
For the civilians none. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #47
Yawn, it's not REALLY about drones. Bonobo Feb 2013 #48
I don't like either.. stillcool Feb 2013 #54
Theme song for this discussion: "Send in the Drones" Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #56
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