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In reply to the discussion: Eve Ensler on the passivity of men [View all]Sirveri
(4,517 posts)24. I didn't realize it was up to men to save all the women.
Wish I knew that they couldn't do it themselves, would never have worked so hard to get my wife a college education...
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all you have to do is look at societal conditioning and the difference we treat male and female
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#10
Our culture is awash to the gunwales with female sexuality and hypersexuality
Fumesucker
Feb 2013
#14
womens sexuality is only used to promote and give to, entertain and validate mens sexuality
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#15
If a man shows one iota of vulnerability in our culture he's dead meat walking
Fumesucker
Feb 2013
#16
i have never asked for a "white knight". i do expect commen decency and that is not gender
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#227
I don't believe that for a sec. Even if a study says it. I'm over 50; I've pretty much got a handle
Honeycombe8
Feb 2013
#22
Dear Eve: Don't assume that the majority of Men are not outraged by the action of rape...
BlueJazz
Feb 2013
#4
I think men need to do more than actually discuss. They need to take action.
Luminous Animal
Feb 2013
#126
thank you. but the best? they get to shed the conditioning and stereotypes given to men,
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#315
i think it is a possibility if a man really wants to see. absolutely. i think even more so
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#354
I tend to hang around with good people...those that it's hard to say an unkind word about or..
BlueJazz
Feb 2013
#398
I totally agree with her, but I'm not impressed by her 'awareness' raising methods, which seem
ancianita
Feb 2013
#5
On what basis is she assuming men aren't angry about rape and humiliation of women?
Bucky
Feb 2013
#11
Ironic sidenote: I'm a bad man and a horrid human being and I'm *still* anti-rape
Bucky
Feb 2013
#13
Well said. Many posts in this thread perfectly illustrate the factuality of your post. nt
Zorra
Feb 2013
#288
They probably refuse to discuss the topic because it began with an implicit attack.
Hosnon
Feb 2013
#374
True- quite a few of the men here have explained their non support due to bitterness....
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#421
i am thinking rape as a tool in war. the other side "protecting" while raping and vice versa.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#34
According to the DOJ, .84 people per thousand (aged 12 and over) are raped each year.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#402
The repetitive, redundant omnipresent observation that most criminals are men depends on the premise
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#457
Juvenile insults like "take your posts to a shrink" or "That is delusional"?
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2013
#476
What does "Using your tenure as a juror to insult fellow members" mean?
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2013
#479
actually, there is a rebirth to the feminist movement with our young of both genders. so your
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#177
like there is any expectation of you being knowledge about the subject, having invested a single
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#204
dont want your help. really. if you do not have it in you, who the fuck cares. BUT... do not
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#234
we are not talking about you. again, no expectation. we are talking about the men that get it,
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#251
The men who school us on tone have a problem accepting how whiney they come off.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#441
all the talk about failed relationships and anger at random women is "reasonable discussion"?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#483
no, I was replying to your claim that men who lack the capability for empathy and support are
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#486
You still don't make sense. I made no claims of the nature you describe or conjure.
Eleanors38
Feb 2013
#487
could you clarify this about what "new narrative" might be- if not asking for support and empathy...
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#488
Men are now expected to take an activist role when once they were expected to remain in the b.g.
Eleanors38
Feb 2013
#489
if having common decency is "being an activist" (huh?) is way too much for ask then the good man
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#490
Shrill, LOL. Smirks? You have quite the thin skin, and fevered imagination... but I knew that after
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#492
as I said before, empathy and support. your post is complete gibberish that has nothing to do with
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#482
I thought only HS boys skulked around girls they do not want to be friends with .....
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#30
ohhh, redqueen. say it sister. that is a very concise, clear way to explain it.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#121
LOL, it says a lot that a bad joke from a bad sitcom would be flogged to death for decades
redqueen
Feb 2013
#282
I've had countless discussions about this issue... (the 'joke that no one takes seriously) according
redqueen
Feb 2013
#335
"Lonely people who feel cheated? That's entitlement. No one is owed a romantic relationship."
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Feb 2013
#383
People also don't know how to use the word "momentarily" correctly
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Feb 2013
#366
ROFL...perfect! I thought the "nice guy / friend zone" thing was by now so universally mocked
alcibiades_mystery
Feb 2013
#196
WTF kind of response does he expect- explicit permission to look the other way?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#32
+1. Men are going to have to start having a conversation with other men to address their feelings.
WCLinolVir
Feb 2013
#185
At least one man here acknowledged he learned his old school sex role from Dad...
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#341
bah hahahahah. you bad feminist, you have RUINED our society. now, where do we hear this talk?
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#222
Why would I react as if this was about me? I'm not so self centered or paranoid.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#73
Self-centered in the sense that we're telling you that the OP is wrong about us.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#48
Push back with sad stories about how random women weren't kind to you? Seriously?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#167
i dunno. i am thinking a woman being raped would be at least level playing field with angst.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#178
it is called common decency not gender specific. let go of the white knight and you are a step
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#231
how easily SOME men can chuck oh, common decency, standing up for fellow man, ect...
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#255
it was the women that pushed and pushed to make prison rape jokes NOT acceptable on du, by men
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#49
Well then maybe it would be appropriate to ask Eve which kind of guys she's not yelling at.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#60
Yeah, maybe the ones who don't take it personally are just more likely to keep their mouths shut.
redqueen
Feb 2013
#127
Equating irritation with obnoxious OP with Republican's movement against reproductive rights?
Bonobo
Feb 2013
#149
you interpret it so narrowly as " OP with Republican's movement against"? fine.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#151
i am certainly saying that we have men on the democratic board that have sexist/misogynist
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#154
i think the 70'a and 80's. part of 90's were progressively moving forward. i think mid 90's
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#160
i do see a lot of change. hate and anger that was not there in the past. feelings of not needed,
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#180
we disagree. i think with independence and freedoms and choice, came the anger like we hadnt seen.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#226
That was the intent of the quote in the OP. However, some on this thread are taking it all the way..
Buzz Clik
Feb 2013
#221
yes... we have some men taking it to mean ALL men, regardless how many times people tell them
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#238
then correct buzz. he called out women saying SOME women were saying ALL men. that is wrong. SOME
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#322
No, you're misinterpreting Ensler...if you were familiar with her work, you'd know that.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#338
I'll never be familiar enough with *anyone* to substitute my own words for theirs.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#342
Yes it could. On a more pragmatic level, imagine how much more productive this thread would have
Hosnon
Feb 2013
#372
This thread is a testament to the quote being "rhetorically counterproductive". nt.
Hosnon
Feb 2013
#370
I am serious about this: consider the quality of the men with whom you associate.
Buzz Clik
Feb 2013
#78
Associate with? Please, I have briefly socialized and worked with dozens of assholes who say and
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#84
first he says it is so prevalent he would have little time to do anything else. now there is no
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#148
Yes, Buzz said he sees no sexism ever, then he does, now it's "no problem"...
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#172
ah, well we had a really stupid rape joke pass muster with jury just last night.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#181
Over 40 yrs., and the same approach. But the power & glory of righteousness...
Eleanors38
Feb 2013
#452
"Feminists view all men as the enemy... the sooner some men grasp this the sooner the movement dies"
redqueen
Feb 2013
#276
you finally acknowledge you hear this shit all the fuckin time and if you bothered you would have
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#147
There seems to be an assumption that all men hear (or particpate in) rape jokes. Not true.
DisgustipatedinCA
Feb 2013
#81
Great post. About a week ago, I was having lunch with a group and one guy was saying how
raccoon
Feb 2013
#157
no. you used war as an example of male "protective" to their death. rape used as a tool of war
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#51
because many men get it and know it is not at them personally. because when we were asked the same
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#150
SOME men protect women as much as they can. Some others are the ones women need to be protected FROM
raccoon
Feb 2013
#159
There is no useful purpose served by telling the members of the other gender what they think.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2013
#47
or, redefinition of rape allowed rates to go down and police force across the nation downgrading
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#53
bullshit. what a fuckin game you play, always. all it was were articles from newspapers across the
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#102
It's not a game. You're alleging that there is a widespread law enforcement conspiracy
Warren DeMontague
Feb 2013
#104
yes, game. articles. that is all it was, articles. and you play games. here are links....
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#108
Police departments go to great lengths to look good on the UCR, the FBI’...federal funding is determ
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#113
So your assertion is that the stats are manipulated *more than* they were 30 years ago.
Warren DeMontague
Feb 2013
#135
"Adjusted crime rates" has to do with a change in data collection methodology
Jackpine Radical
Feb 2013
#61
Which means that MORE rapes would be reported since 1993 under the "adjustment", not fewer.
Warren DeMontague
Feb 2013
#101
We must celebrate you or else you'll be a jackass? You know what that means?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#76
Society puts up the bad boy image, and that seems to be what the women fawn over.
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#186
You're point is some men look the other way because they're resentful that some women make foolish
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#210
and why aren't some women, especially in red states also not outraged. I say this because many of
still_one
Feb 2013
#103
It's hard to think of a better way to alienate people that are already allies. nt
Bonobo
Feb 2013
#242
allies? like starting a thread about not being able to call your daughter baby?
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#260
Like I said,I did NOT call out feminists and I don't see why you make it about you.
Bonobo
Feb 2013
#278
There is no benefit to meaningfully engage or commit in any way to a female
galileoreloaded
Feb 2013
#162
You want no engagement or commitment unless the person is dependent on you?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#175
You said engagement and commitment aren't worth it if the woman is not depending on the man.
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#236
I am finding it to be that committment only comes when they are dependent on you
Puzzledtraveller
Feb 2013
#220
yes some men are saying this, but does not make a lick of sense. if men have checked out, then why
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#176
Here's one woman who goes by the ACTIONS not the words. I'm sure there are plenty others. nt
raccoon
Feb 2013
#350
+1. The problem with generalizations like this OP is that only one counterexample proves them wrong.
Nye Bevan
Feb 2013
#285
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
Gormy Cuss
Feb 2013
#381
but you are judging the act.... and that does incur the penalty or repercussion. my point is....
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#320
secretly thrive ... acts within 50 Shades, including stuff that appears to be without consent. RAPE
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#387
menz are so confused with rape. some girls, at some time, have said no and they really wanted it
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#391
it is fuckin' in meta. fuckin' sick shit. sorry. this gets me shaking when we have someone
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#395
Regardless of what a woman purchases for her pleasure, it's never appropriate to assume
msanthrope
Feb 2013
#401
Because we're supposed to take it for granted self identifying liberals support us?
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#356
And sitting on a fence hurts the crotch! Middle of the road has dead skunks!!!
bettyellen
Feb 2013
#420
what an excellent post, and all in the thinking about it. can i be an ally. support your voice
seabeyond
Feb 2013
#427