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In reply to the discussion: WOW. Nails it. [View all]
 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
74. But Zimmerman initiated contact by pursuing Martin. That act renders any claim of self-defense
Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:51 AM
Feb 2013

Ridiculous. An analogy - while armed, I follow a man in a car because I think he has stolen my son's bicycle. The man notices that I am following him, stops his car and gets out. I get out and accuse him, and a heated argument ensues. We begin to fight, and he knocks me down and appears ready to jump on me and beat me, so I draw my weapon and shoot him.

This is clearly not a valid case of SYG because had I not been following the man, there would have been no confrontation.

As I mentioned earlier, SYG does not give me the right to undertake actions that precipitate a physical confrontation, then draw and fire my weapon because I may be losing.

People who choose to arm themselves have an especially compelling obligation to avoid any and all confrontations, solely because there is a higher probability of death or serious injury.

Years ago a friend and I were in a public place where alcohol was being served, although I did not drink any. A local bully was drunkenly trying to pick a fight with me because he thought we were a gay couple. He was insulting and obnoxious, asking us who was the batter and who was the catcher. We were both legally carrying concealed 9mm pistols, having gone to the gun range that day and stopping for dinner on the way home. I left money for the tab, got up and walked out without finishing my burger. The bully did not follow. If he had followed and began beating me, I would have had a valid case for self-defense. But we took extraordinary measures to retreat and avoid further confrontation, as Zimmerman should have done.

If Zimmerman gets off, it will be a grave miscarriage of justice, and not just because Martin was black, or a kid, but because it will give the nod to people who have a mind to behave like idiots and chase down or otherwise confront anyone who looks suspicious to them.

When Zimmerman exited his vehicle, he sealed his own (and unfortunately, Martin's) fate.

WOW. Nails it. [View all] WilliamPitt Feb 2013 OP
kick Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #1
K&R libtodeath Feb 2013 #2
Excellent 1gobluedem Feb 2013 #3
Because black = "bad guy with a gun" whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #4
+1000 baldguy Feb 2013 #8
EXACTLY! The only thing scarier than a black man is a black man with an actual gun to them...(n/t) Moostache Feb 2013 #17
Racism is alive and well and if he had had a gun, his killer would be walking free without charges Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #37
Excellent question lunatica Feb 2013 #5
so excellent arely staircase Feb 2013 #11
That would make it a rhetorical question ashling Feb 2013 #30
Yup. progressoid Feb 2013 #6
Yeah . . . why IS that??? patrice Feb 2013 #7
Or How About Why Wasn't Martin in the Right if he Fought Z Based on SYG & His Fear For His Life? dballance Feb 2013 #9
Again, to be fair, there are those who argue that Martin was the one who... Moonwalk Feb 2013 #12
But assuming Zimmerman's story to be true, it was Martin who was standing his ground. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #70
Oh, I'm not arguing otherwise. All evidence so far points to Martin as the one who... Moonwalk Feb 2013 #89
Actually, there were those who said that, apparently.... Moonwalk Feb 2013 #10
Huh? Doesnt he realize that Trayvon was ... well you know? rhett o rick Feb 2013 #13
Armed Jackpine Radical Feb 2013 #22
Dont underestimate the danger of Skittles. nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #35
I most certainly don't. Skittles has been on this board for a long time. Jackpine Radical Feb 2013 #42
K&R Solly Mack Feb 2013 #14
The notion that good guys need guns Blue4Texas Feb 2013 #15
It came up on every discussion I saw about the case Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #16
Did the NRA make a statement leftynyc Feb 2013 #21
Probably not, I don't follow the NRA my friend. Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #28
I'm hoping the prosecution makes leftynyc Feb 2013 #31
I very much want to see Zimmerman convicted Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #41
Not going to happen tiredtoo Feb 2013 #77
If Trayvon had a gun, there wouldn't even be a trial had the same outcome occured. nt EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #18
Agreed. That poor kid would be under the jail. nt Nay Feb 2013 #29
Jeff runs THE SMIRKING CHIMP, my favorite political website other than this one nt HomerRamone Feb 2013 #19
Do you have a link that you could share with us? left on green only Feb 2013 #46
If you go to the DU home page thucythucy Feb 2013 #51
K&R gademocrat7 Feb 2013 #20
Very good question. blackspade Feb 2013 #23
Because they can only parrot talking points.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #24
Such silly statements are almost always made in jest by gun control proponents slackmaster Feb 2013 #25
Zimmerman qualified for a permit under lax gun laws. Hoyt Feb 2013 #26
OUCH DonCoquixote Feb 2013 #27
Even in SYG states, you don't get to shoot someone for approaching you. There has to be Flatulo Feb 2013 #32
Had Martin been carrying the gun, had Martin lived, he would be the one claiming reasonable JDPriestly Feb 2013 #72
But Zimmerman initiated contact by pursuing Martin. That act renders any claim of self-defense Flatulo Feb 2013 #74
Personally, I think you are right. I like this statement: JDPriestly Feb 2013 #87
I hadn't thought of that angle... Flatulo Feb 2013 #88
we need a new Black Panther Party advocating for gun rights Hamlette Feb 2013 #33
Interesting scenario, and you gave the only two possible outcomes: Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #36
Dark people are scary. They don't need guns. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #34
Spot. On. K&R. apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #38
We don't allow people under 21 to carry handguns in this nation. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #39
Wow, never thought about that! Rex Feb 2013 #40
40 replies and NOT ONE from those to whom the question was addressed. TheMadMonk Feb 2013 #43
Amazing how that works, isn't it? MH1 Feb 2013 #44
I think that WAS said. The replies were like "so you think a shootout would've been the way Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #45
does the NRA.. FormalObserver Feb 2013 #47
Because Only Southern White Protestants Are Responsible Gun Owners cantbeserious Feb 2013 #48
How novel. Another slam at the South. Yawn. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #50
Born And Raised In Texas - I Know The Culture Well cantbeserious Feb 2013 #52
I see no evidence of that. nt Skip Intro Feb 2013 #53
Will Have To Agree To Disagree About The Time Spent In Baptist Pews Suffering Hell Fire cantbeserious Feb 2013 #54
Your experience gives you the right to broadbrush an entire region? Skip Intro Feb 2013 #55
IMHO - When The Shoe Fits ... cantbeserious Feb 2013 #56
Yeah, bigotry is a comfortable fit for some people. nt Skip Intro Feb 2013 #57
Yes - Quite Right - To Include Many Of Those Southern White Protestants cantbeserious Feb 2013 #58
I've said all I have to say about your broadbrush bigotry. Skip Intro Feb 2013 #59
Great - Thanks For Sharing cantbeserious Feb 2013 #61
Interesting..."quite right" is not what you would call.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #60
Shooting The Messenger I See - A Form Of Ad Hominen Attack cantbeserious Feb 2013 #62
Nope....just responding with an astute observation.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #63
We Will Have To Agree To Disagree cantbeserious Feb 2013 #64
Piece of advice to see you on your way...don't use "quite right".... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #65
Piece Of Advice As We See You On Your Way - Don't Lecture Another Southerner cantbeserious Feb 2013 #67
As far as I can tell, you're not from the South. Good luck with your attempted charade. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #86
Doesn't sound at all strange to this New Yorker n/t markpkessinger Feb 2013 #66
To This Texan - Quite Right - Is Just That - Quite Right cantbeserious Feb 2013 #68
I've lived in, worked in, or traveled through all 48 states of the mainland US, and.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #69
You know, "Yankees" have a reputation for correcting grammar... Pholus Feb 2013 #78
Hmmm. Let's see....I was born in Virginia, earned degrees from a major college in Virginia.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #85
No. You and I are pretty much alike here. Pholus Feb 2013 #91
If you were bitten by a dog recently, it would be wise for you to stay away from dogs you do not JDPriestly Feb 2013 #73
Because they were defending Zimmerman JI7 Feb 2013 #49
Big ass kick... n/t Agschmid Feb 2013 #71
Kickin' it. In_The_Wind Feb 2013 #75
K&R ck4829 Feb 2013 #76
I like this one: "If guns don't kill people, why give them to soldiers, just send the people." Coyotl Feb 2013 #79
Exactly libodem Feb 2013 #80
Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #81
Not sure what this has to do with the OP? cyberswede Feb 2013 #82
So, you're implying that blacks are the ones who kill the most people, MoonRiver Feb 2013 #84
BRILLIANT! MoonRiver Feb 2013 #83
Yep... Neoma Feb 2013 #90
I did, others did as well. The unity in audience inferred does not exist. TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #92
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