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In reply to the discussion: I'm a loyal member of the Democratic Party and I don't have a problem with Drones [View all]think
(11,641 posts)217. The "cut and paste" you speak of are FACTS from YOUR OWN SOURCE
which refute your very claims that the situation is improving in the manner you've suggested so please spare me your condescension.
Your words with bold added for emphasis:
the United Nations, which recognizes the al-Hadi Administration and has given it cautious praise for moving toward full democracy. Human Rights Watch says basically the same thing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2325007
I posted an article which discusses the report by HRW . A report that shows children are still being used in the Yemen military and other BLATANT AUTHORITARIAN activities and you try to discredit YOUR OWN SOURCE as just a cut and paste job. That is absurd:
Human Rights Watch says Yemen government still behind
~Snip~
Tawakkul Karman - 2011 Nobel Peace prize winner - sent a letter to the UN Security Council earlier this week demanding the very thing revolutionaries have been clamoring for over the past year -- a lift of the immunity, Saleh's forced departure of Yemen and a freeze of assets for all men and women linked to the looted funds of Yemen
~Snip~
"Human Rights Watch received credible reports of Islamist militants and pro-government popular committees deploying child soldiers in Abyan."
Moreover, reports from local rights researchers and activists highlighted that schools were still being used as bases for militias and government troops, preventing children from properly attending schools and putting civilians populations at risk to be caught in a cross-fire or military escalation.
The right group also criticised the government for failing to address issues relating to Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Speech, saying journalists were still living under the tyranny of Yemen specialized media courts - which by their nature are contrary to international press freedom standards -
~Snip~
Addressing Yemen's fight against terrorism, HRW reported - according to the Bureau of
Investigative Journalism (TBIJ), a UK-based public interest reporting service - the government authorized 83 US-led drone strikes against alleged al-Qaeda militants and/or hideouts which in turn led to the death of at least 173 civilians -amongst whom women and children -
TBIJ reported lack of access to the targeted areas prevented independent verification of the data, including the number of civilian casualties.
~Snip~
HRW warned against the ill effects of sexism and child marriages as they were both clear and grave violations of one's human rights.
"Child marriages remain widespread,
~Snip~
http://www.yemenpost.net/Detail123456789.aspx?ID=100&SubID=6488&MainCat=5
~Snip~
Tawakkul Karman - 2011 Nobel Peace prize winner - sent a letter to the UN Security Council earlier this week demanding the very thing revolutionaries have been clamoring for over the past year -- a lift of the immunity, Saleh's forced departure of Yemen and a freeze of assets for all men and women linked to the looted funds of Yemen
~Snip~
"Human Rights Watch received credible reports of Islamist militants and pro-government popular committees deploying child soldiers in Abyan."
Moreover, reports from local rights researchers and activists highlighted that schools were still being used as bases for militias and government troops, preventing children from properly attending schools and putting civilians populations at risk to be caught in a cross-fire or military escalation.
The right group also criticised the government for failing to address issues relating to Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Speech, saying journalists were still living under the tyranny of Yemen specialized media courts - which by their nature are contrary to international press freedom standards -
~Snip~
Addressing Yemen's fight against terrorism, HRW reported - according to the Bureau of
Investigative Journalism (TBIJ), a UK-based public interest reporting service - the government authorized 83 US-led drone strikes against alleged al-Qaeda militants and/or hideouts which in turn led to the death of at least 173 civilians -amongst whom women and children -
TBIJ reported lack of access to the targeted areas prevented independent verification of the data, including the number of civilian casualties.
~Snip~
HRW warned against the ill effects of sexism and child marriages as they were both clear and grave violations of one's human rights.
"Child marriages remain widespread,
~Snip~
http://www.yemenpost.net/Detail123456789.aspx?ID=100&SubID=6488&MainCat=5
And this is the SAME human rights group that wrote THIS paper on the use of drones!:
Losing Humanity
November 19, 2012
This 50-page report outlines concerns about these fully autonomous weapons, which would inherently lack human qualities that provide legal and non-legal checks on the killing of civilians. In addition, the obstacles to holding anyone accountable for harm caused by the weapons would weaken the laws power to deter future violations.
~Snip~
In this report, the terms robot and robotic weapons encompass all three types of unmanned weapons, in other words everything from remote-controlled drones to weapons with complete autonomy. The term fully autonomous weapon refers to both out-of-the-loop weapons and those that allow a human on the loop, but that are effectively out-of-the-loop weapons because the supervision is so limited.[3] A range of other terms have been used to describe fully autonomous weapons, including lethal autonomous robots and killer robots.[4]
~Snip~
Conclusion
Fully autonomous weapons have the potential to increase harm to civilians during armed conflict. They would be unable to meet basic principles of international humanitarian law, they would undercut other, non-legal safeguards that protect civilians, and they would present obstacles to accountability for any casualties that occur.
Link to report:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/11/19/losing-humanity-0
November 19, 2012
This 50-page report outlines concerns about these fully autonomous weapons, which would inherently lack human qualities that provide legal and non-legal checks on the killing of civilians. In addition, the obstacles to holding anyone accountable for harm caused by the weapons would weaken the laws power to deter future violations.
~Snip~
In this report, the terms robot and robotic weapons encompass all three types of unmanned weapons, in other words everything from remote-controlled drones to weapons with complete autonomy. The term fully autonomous weapon refers to both out-of-the-loop weapons and those that allow a human on the loop, but that are effectively out-of-the-loop weapons because the supervision is so limited.[3] A range of other terms have been used to describe fully autonomous weapons, including lethal autonomous robots and killer robots.[4]
~Snip~
Conclusion
Fully autonomous weapons have the potential to increase harm to civilians during armed conflict. They would be unable to meet basic principles of international humanitarian law, they would undercut other, non-legal safeguards that protect civilians, and they would present obstacles to accountability for any casualties that occur.
Link to report:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/11/19/losing-humanity-0
So your own source is against the use of drones!
You are willing to justify having a new puppet who is a shadow of the old puppet to lead the country while the US uses drones to kill the opposition and declare they were an "imminent threat" to the US.
You can put lip stick on a pig but the Yemen leader is still a pig:
Hadi was born in 1945, in Thukain village in Abyan, a southern Yemeni governorate. He graduated in 1966 after receiving a military scholarship to study in Britain, where he also learned to speak English. Then, in 1970, he received another military scholarship to study tanks in Egypt for six years. Hadi spent the following four years in Soviet Union studying military commanding. He occupied several military posts in the southern Yemen army until 1986, when he fled to Sanaa with Ali Nasser Mohammed, president of South Yemen, after Ali Nasser's faction of the ruling Yemeni Socialist Party lost the 1986 civil war.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_Rabbuh_Mansur_Hadi
Yemen is still under the rule of an authoritarian government with the same military power in control that was installed and RUN by the new president.
The majority of Yemen's people are living in complete poverty and Yemen has one of the highest rates of malnutrition in the world.
THE ROOT PROBLEM ISN"T TERRORISM. It is about poverty, government and multinational corporate corruption, and individual rights and freedoms. And it is directly related to the policies of the authoritarian government.
You might be able to rationalize DRONE strikes against the Yemen people by stating they were an imminent threat to the US but the truth is that these people are mainly a threat to our fucking corporate oil interests.
Do these people attack US multinational corporate interests in Yemen? Yes. I'm sure they do.
I don't justify any acts of terrorism by any party. But this is not an imminent act of terrorism against America that deserves the use of drones against any person who MIGHT BE involved in terrorists acts against corporations who are exploiting the country. More than likely they are fighting against the military dictatorship which still rules Yemen and has done much harm to them.
So basically you are condoning the military protection of US corporations; including the unfettered use of drones at the expense of US tax payers. And this is done to defend the profits of the companies willing to undercut democracy and cut deals with dictators. Companies like HALLIBURTON:
List of American Businesses in Yemen
American Companies Operating in Yemen:
Tellabs, Inc.
American President Lines
Baker Hughes EHO Limited
Exxon Mobil Corporation
FedEx (Federal Express)
Halliburton (Worldwide Ltd.) Yemen Branch
Helmerich & Payne, Inc.
Hunt Oil Company
Kerr-McGee Corporation
KPMG Yemen
M-I SWACO (MIOL Yemen)
Deloitte Touche
Murphy Yemen Oil Co
Nabors Industries Ltd.
Occidental Petroleum Corporation
Pecten Yemen Masila Company
Phillips Petro Intl Corp Yemen
Procter & Gamble (Yemen) Ltd.
Schlumberger
Snyder Oil Corporation
Union Texas Petroleum Holdings, Inc.
UPS Yemen
Vintage Petroleum, Inc.
Washington Testing & Consulting Services
Yemen Exploration & Production Company
Yemen Henley Drilling Company
Source:
http://www.yemenembassy.org/economic/AmericanBusinesses.htm
American Companies Operating in Yemen:
Tellabs, Inc.
American President Lines
Baker Hughes EHO Limited
Exxon Mobil Corporation
FedEx (Federal Express)
Halliburton (Worldwide Ltd.) Yemen Branch
Helmerich & Payne, Inc.
Hunt Oil Company
Kerr-McGee Corporation
KPMG Yemen
M-I SWACO (MIOL Yemen)
Deloitte Touche
Murphy Yemen Oil Co
Nabors Industries Ltd.
Occidental Petroleum Corporation
Pecten Yemen Masila Company
Phillips Petro Intl Corp Yemen
Procter & Gamble (Yemen) Ltd.
Schlumberger
Snyder Oil Corporation
Union Texas Petroleum Holdings, Inc.
UPS Yemen
Vintage Petroleum, Inc.
Washington Testing & Consulting Services
Yemen Exploration & Production Company
Yemen Henley Drilling Company
Source:
http://www.yemenembassy.org/economic/AmericanBusinesses.htm
Oh, and here's the new and "not authoritarian" military in action as we speak:
Yemen military must not punish injured protesters
"The militarys latest crackdown is literally adding insult to injury. The ongoing operations do nothing more than punish the protesters for speaking out and seeking justice"
Philip Luther, Amnesty Internationals Middle East and North Africa Programme Director
Wed, 06/02/2013
Military forces in the Yemeni capital Sanaa must not use unlawful force against dozens of injured protesters, Amnesty International said.
Since Tuesday night, the militarys Fourth Armoured Brigade has blocked access into and out of an area outside the Council of Ministers office, where protesters have been engaged in a sit-in protest to demand adequate treatment for injuries sustained during demonstrations in 2011.
Of the around 70 protesters taking part in the sit-in, more than half sustained injuries in 2011 and many have recently gone on hunger strike.
~Snip~
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/yemen-military-must-not-punish-injured-protesters-2013-02-06
"The militarys latest crackdown is literally adding insult to injury. The ongoing operations do nothing more than punish the protesters for speaking out and seeking justice"
Philip Luther, Amnesty Internationals Middle East and North Africa Programme Director
Wed, 06/02/2013
Military forces in the Yemeni capital Sanaa must not use unlawful force against dozens of injured protesters, Amnesty International said.
Since Tuesday night, the militarys Fourth Armoured Brigade has blocked access into and out of an area outside the Council of Ministers office, where protesters have been engaged in a sit-in protest to demand adequate treatment for injuries sustained during demonstrations in 2011.
Of the around 70 protesters taking part in the sit-in, more than half sustained injuries in 2011 and many have recently gone on hunger strike.
~Snip~
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/yemen-military-must-not-punish-injured-protesters-2013-02-06
If you want to play word games to justify drone attacks in Yemen so be it. But don't act like the rest of have to stick our head in the sand just because you chose to do so......
~Snip~
In October, for the third consecutive year, Obama issued a waiver allowing Yemen to receive military assistance, despite documented use of child soldiers by forces, including government troops and pro-government militias.
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/510fb4c559.html
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I'm a loyal member of the Democratic Party and I don't have a problem with Drones [View all]
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
OP
Ronald Reagan called the African National Congress a 'terrorist organization'. Should
coalition_unwilling
Feb 2013
#110
The African National Congress wasn't planning terrorist attacks against the United States
George II
Feb 2013
#166
Way to miss the point. The ANC weren't 'terrorists' at all. But that
coalition_unwilling
Feb 2013
#171
Didn't mess the point at all - your comment was illogical in this discussion.
George II
Feb 2013
#176
Was not illogical in the slightest. Get this: when Obama orders a drone strike on
coalition_unwilling
Feb 2013
#183
Targeting it with the military is using a bazooka to go after a flea (with
coalition_unwilling
Feb 2013
#213
Fine - get Iran, Somalia, Syria, etc. to extradite one of them to the US...think that will happen?
George II
Feb 2013
#167
One would think that if someone was in another country working to take down our government..........
George II
Feb 2013
#196
Jimmy Lee Dykes was killed this week without a trial, or, as people here now like to say...
George II
Feb 2013
#204
Police forces have been rescuing kidnappees for decades, maybe more than a century........
George II
Feb 2013
#229
So where do you draw the line? How much freedom will you give up in order to feel safe?
white_wolf
Feb 2013
#230
Why don't you ask the parents of that kid that was held captive in the bunker for almost a week?
George II
Feb 2013
#238
They already are, and the courts have upheld the Patriot Act which allows them to do so. I don't
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#31
Yes. We wouldn't want to spread conspiracy theories that hurt perceptions of government legitimacy.
Octafish
Feb 2013
#61
You do realize Bush and Cheney outted a CIA super-spy and her network to warn political opponents?
Octafish
Feb 2013
#223
Yes it explains a lot. That some of us have more time on their hands to dissect every word and try
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#25
Why does "Occupy Yadda Yadda" have to repeatedly get dragged into discusisons around here????
George II
Feb 2013
#205
Darryl Gates stood by his officers who beat Rodney King and thought that they used reasonable force.
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#28
Akhil Reed Amar is Sterling Professor of Law and Political Science at Yale University....
reACTIONary
Feb 2013
#274
I hold Darryl Gates responsible for the destruction caused by the Los Angeles riots in '92.
kwassa
Feb 2013
#173
The specific person about whom all this debate (and the memo) centers.......
George II
Feb 2013
#210
You're citing a 123 year old incident as justification for NOT going after known terrorists?
George II
Feb 2013
#248
When I was in Iraq, there were always rumors of Americans fighting on the other side
Recursion
Feb 2013
#10
They are evil because am worried other countries will bring them here. However,
southernyankeebelle
Feb 2013
#12
I don't disagree with anything you've said. Our troops are certainly at risk when we put boots on
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#38
Aside from disagreeing with you about secretly targeting Americans with NO oversight from
cali
Feb 2013
#23
Yes I had a problem with torture, having served in the military, I had a problem with it.
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#40
You're not alone. Unfortunately, we have to wade through rivers of bullshit and hyperbole...
EastKYLiberal
Feb 2013
#56
Not in every situation when it comes to war, someone works for the other side then all bets are off
uponit7771
Feb 2013
#244
How's the weather up there on that high horse in that black and white world in which you live?
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#51
Seriously? What you are essentially saying is that Obama has every right to execute anyone he
Zorra
Feb 2013
#64
Ask the soldiers on the ground how they feel about sending in an unmanned drone
cutroot
Feb 2013
#65
Not true. The person piloting a Drone can see things very clearly from halfway around the world.
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#79
The civil war was not a "real war" in the constititionally-defined sense.
Jeff In Milwaukee
Feb 2013
#88
Both Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro were legally recognized heads of state
Jeff In Milwaukee
Feb 2013
#168
Exactly. People seem to have conveniently forgotten that we are at war with the terrorists,
kestrel91316
Feb 2013
#107
Who the fuck is "they"? Me, because I went to an Occupy site a few times? Bone up on your history
HomerRamone
Feb 2013
#161
"if you've renounced your country and are actively seeking its destruction by aligning"
Hissyspit
Feb 2013
#224
an employee of the military industrial complex, well, not a shock that you take this position
quinnox
Feb 2013
#83
I'm glad you're torn. These are not easy decisions. It's those who see everything
politicaljunkie41910
Feb 2013
#95
Yeah, eventually Americans figured out the Iraq War was a pile of illegal crap....
Hissyspit
Feb 2013
#105
"in other words everything from remote-controlled drones to weapons with complete autonomy."
think
Feb 2013
#221
"And NOW you want them to do it without the military assistance of the United States. "
think
Feb 2013
#218
"you don't know what the threats are until you get those secure briefings that the President gets"
Hissyspit
Feb 2013
#114
Welcome politicaljunkie41910 & thank you! This IS about life death & your assistance is appreciated.
patrice
Feb 2013
#117
ALL of us make our "compromises", including you & to assume that no one can do that
patrice
Feb 2013
#135
Are you calling me bigoted and privileged? You don't know shit, do you?
Comrade Grumpy
Feb 2013
#151
we have not been involved in any morally justifyable military action since WWII
bowens43
Feb 2013
#132
For many people, party affiliation follows, and is predicated on principle.
LanternWaste
Feb 2013
#137
Jean Quan, "Progressive Democrat" mayor of Oakland repeatedly attacked Occupy Oakland
Fire Walk With Me
Feb 2013
#153
What does that have to do with the use of drones to kill traitors in enemy camps?
George II
Feb 2013
#203
You missed the part about Prog Democrat Jean Quan very nearly killing two US Veterans on US soil?
Fire Walk With Me
Feb 2013
#214
Since this discussion was about using drones in the Middle East to destroy terrorists, yes.......
George II
Feb 2013
#228
I can't believe some of the shit I'm reading on a supposedly progressive website.
Fantastic Anarchist
Feb 2013
#154
and as long as secret panels can make these decisions behind closed doors - we are safe
Douglas Carpenter
Feb 2013
#272
Unlawful aggression within the borders of sovereign nations is not self defense.
Egalitarian Thug
Feb 2013
#193
As a member of the military, you take an oath to support and defend the Constitution,
MadHound
Feb 2013
#185
Every Corner Cop should have a personal drone fleet! It's just the same as any other weapon!
bobduca
Feb 2013
#195
Dreams in Infrared: The Woes of an American Drone Operator - Der Spiegel
farminator3000
Feb 2013
#191
Having won the Nobel Peace Prize, it proves that the drone war is a good thing.
AngryAmish
Feb 2013
#201
As a gun owner.... I think it's my god given right to have a small drone base in my backyard.
Katashi_itto
Feb 2013
#232
I can't say I disagree with a single thing you said. This was the "shiny object" Repukes were.....
Tarheel_Dem
Feb 2013
#234
This thread proves that there are Democrats that believe doing something is bad...
AZ Progressive
Feb 2013
#261
as long as there is a secret panel to determine who is targeted - what could possibly go wrong?
Douglas Carpenter
Feb 2013
#270
I'm an American and I have an enormous problem with the whittling away at our Bill of Rights
Fire Walk With Me
Feb 2013
#273