General Discussion

rustydog

(9,186 posts)

82. This nation's conscience, moral character,belief in justice for all

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:12 PM

Feb 2013

Must be held and on display no matter where your supposed, no SUSPECTED (not proven) enemy is located.
We put suspected Nazis on trial,convicted them and imprisoned and executed them.

But we are now so goddamn afraid of terrists (thanks GOP) that we are willing to throw out the window the unbelivably beautiful concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt.
You have leaders who are so afraid of their incompetence, they want to simply say something is so and then act on that possibly deeply flawed suspicion. Due process must be applied especially when one thinks or fears it is not "practica" because that is when we prove the system works. It isn't the guaranteed conviction, it is the fucking process that is necessary.l

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I am not a"Loyal Member of the Democratic Party" I am a Democrat [View all] rustydog Feb 2013 OP

I'm conflicted too because as bad as they are they're sure better than the whole JaneyVee Feb 2013 #1

What you said Auntie Bush Feb 2013 #7

Seconded MynameisBlarney Feb 2013 #25

Well said. Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #2

I too, believe that even the President of the USA is not above the law quinnox Feb 2013 #3

Nixon famously said Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #4

I believe he followed that up with... Blanks Feb 2013 #5

But he believed it.... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #9

He's dead. What he believed is moot. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #12

Precedent is moot? Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #13

He's dead now. Blanks Feb 2013 #14

And the use of drones against Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #16

Does it somehow make Nixon less dead? Blanks Feb 2013 #48

They impeached Clinton's dick tama Feb 2013 #76

You mean like George W Bush and Dick Cheney. Ashgrey77 Feb 2013 #28

The fact that I know that Nixon is dead... Blanks Feb 2013 #51

Let's get to the underlying issue ... JoePhilly Feb 2013 #6

It appears that there are no limits to the powers authorized by AUMF rhett o rick Feb 2013 #20

I'll agree that Obama is "expanding" these powers when he invades a country for no JoePhilly Feb 2013 #22

Whether or not dropping the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were war crimes rhett o rick Feb 2013 #75

US Congress gave the Executive Branch - well then the president cant hold on to it if congress takes leftyohiolib Feb 2013 #35

Sure they could ... but they'll need to be able to overide the President's veto. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #40

ok yea for some reason a veto of it nvr crossed my mind leftyohiolib Feb 2013 #49

An attack on America isn't reason enough for you? michigandem58 Feb 2013 #8

How many of those attackers were American (or Iraqi or Afghan for that matter), again? Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #17

You aren't that obtuse michigandem58 Feb 2013 #18

There have been many attacks on us committed by American citizens, Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #21

We used due process because we had the ability to apprehend them. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #23

Once we actually decided to, we found and killed OBL, but we can't grab Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #29

You might want to read up on these events. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #42

So, if not drones, special forces are the only option... Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #46

Is that really the best you have? JoePhilly Feb 2013 #59

Wow. I had hoped (I see now that it was forlorn) that my chide might nudge you into thought. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #67

Due process isn't always practical michigandem58 Feb 2013 #24

See #29 Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #30

This nation's conscience, moral character,belief in justice for all rustydog Feb 2013 #82

+ 10,000. truedelphi Feb 2013 #63

and drone attacks like what we're doing theaocp Feb 2013 #34

First of all, read the goddamn justification! rustydog Feb 2013 #70

Yes it is. Gormy Cuss Feb 2013 #84

I'm a yellow dog, down and dirty, cut to the bone democrat myself madokie Feb 2013 #10

But, as an American, FredStembottom Feb 2013 #15

Exactly! There's nothing patriotic about being an ignorant sheeple. Lionessa Feb 2013 #19

that's what people said about bush.. frylock Feb 2013 #36

Precisely, in all but "get out of the way". Why are we engaging in that vote thingee, unless we patrice Feb 2013 #44

true true true Victor_c3 Feb 2013 #53

Just because you may be stifled by distance and maybe this sticky little thing called PROOF rustydog Feb 2013 #83

Hey look I voted for the man three times now madokie Feb 2013 #85

I am loyal to my dogs and horse and my family Autumn Feb 2013 #11

yup. As a country we are great for saying that we stand for one thing then doing the exact opposite. Victor_c3 Feb 2013 #26

I am a Democrat and wasn't loyal to LBJ and his war, nor am I to Obama and his war. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #27

I can respect that if you can respect that for SOME of us it isn't loyalty to war. It is loyalty patrice Feb 2013 #38

You're rationalizing. librabear Feb 2013 #47

When did the RATIONAL become bad??? patrice Feb 2013 #54

When your rationalizations replace your convictions and ethics bobduca Feb 2013 #79

So YOU are the judge of my convictions and ethics. Tell me why you are not a fascist, please. nt patrice Feb 2013 #87

Only when you stop beating your wife nt bobduca Feb 2013 #90

Bullshit. Please answer the question. By your previous post, AN OBSERVABLE EVENT, you appear to be a patrice Feb 2013 #92

Just because an ethical decision is DIFFERENT from yours, that does not NECESSARILY, rationally, patrice Feb 2013 #88

DIFFERENCE =/= Evil unless one is a fascist. nt patrice Feb 2013 #89

Isn't one of the biggest problems of conviction & ethics in the USA the fact that too many of us patrice Feb 2013 #91

PRETENDING that two words with the SAME root have ABSOLUTELY different & unique semantic patrice Feb 2013 #93

If what you are saying about language were true, Noam Chomsky would be a nobody. nt patrice Feb 2013 #94

When did it become bad to ANALYZE specific experiences & situations logically & decide based onthat? patrice Feb 2013 #55

You may choose your own risks. You do not have the right to choose other people's risks for them. patrice Feb 2013 #31

You especially do not have the right to choose other people's risks for them when it appears that patrice Feb 2013 #32

I'm not conflicted adieu Feb 2013 #33

Yep! And EACH person is FREE to identify & commit freely to right and/or wrong as EACH KNOWS it. patrice Feb 2013 #41

+1000000 ...Thank you. nt woo me with science Feb 2013 #45

k, so you are an absolutist, not a rationalist. You claim a "right" to determine what patrice Feb 2013 #56

Are you claiming a "right" to determine the RISKS of death that other people face? & if so, by patrice Feb 2013 #58

If so, please inform us when we voted that responsibility to you. nt patrice Feb 2013 #62

i suspect that you, and many others, won't be as conflicted when the repubs are back in control frylock Feb 2013 #37

That's a cheap shot. There is nothing in the OP's comment that even remotely suggests that they want totodeinhere Feb 2013 #50

i never suggested that, but to believe the repubs will never have the white house again.. frylock Feb 2013 #73

The Right Wing is claiming the U.N. is behind it.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #39

'government' & 'government officials' act badly all the time. xchrom Feb 2013 #43

Imposing restrictions, and expecting that alone will meet the needs, most often fails, but you patrice Feb 2013 #52

Imperfect they may be - but laws, restrictions, etc xchrom Feb 2013 #66

I'm not proposing that we just throw them all out. Personally, I think, when I say we need to patrice Feb 2013 #69

Or as a very wise woman stated today: truedelphi Feb 2013 #68

you'll have to forgive the swooners Skittles Feb 2013 #57

Stereotyping is such an impressive thinking skill. nt patrice Feb 2013 #61

If there's one thing to say neffernin Feb 2013 #60

When you continually show me that violence is the answer to our problems WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2013 #64

My hats off to you donnasgirl Feb 2013 #65

K&R woo me with science Feb 2013 #71

K & R !!! WillyT Feb 2013 #72

kick woo me with science Feb 2013 #74

I dunno, personally I think it would be nice to see some consistency of principle from some people.. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2013 #77

Cheers to you, rustydog! Efilroft Sul Feb 2013 #78

I agree. The democratic party threw hissy fist when George W. Bush used liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #80

Bush claimed the right to spy and torture, Obama added killing Americans to the list Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #86

kick woo me with science Feb 2013 #81