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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
58. I don't know that WDOA exists today
Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:30 PM
Feb 2013

If the FBI #1 most wanted is sitting on a park bench I can't walk up and shoot him.

I might not get into trouble for doing so, in practice, but the FBI's relative level of interest would not change anything legally except in terms of an argument that the FBI ranking would lead "the reasonable man" to have believed the suspect to be an imminent threat to others by merely existing.

A jury might be sympathetic to that, or not. But the argument would have to be made—there is no FBI most wanted list exception to any justifiable homicide standard I know of.

The cases of 1930s figures like Bonnie and Clyde are often extra-judicial executions, and planned as such. Ma Barker's shack was practically cut in half with machine guns like a stealth attack on a German mortar position. J. Edgar Hoover planned the deaths (not captures) of people on his list. It is hard to read the Dillinger death as anything other than a planned "hit."

No great sympathy for Dillinger or Barrow here (though Ma Barker was just an illiterate hillbilly who was surely not the head of any crime operation, but merely someone who did not opt to turn in her family... aid and comfort, which is apropos here), but the fact is the FBI did plan to execute Americans extra-judicially.

And J. Edgar Hoover's methods have not lacked for subsequent critique.

I think if he would have surrendered peacefully, or at least released his hostage, Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #1
He did. It was over in a flash. TheCowsCameHome Feb 2013 #2
Superman was busy diverting an asteroid at the time. randome Feb 2013 #3
Is this an oblique reference to the extra-judicial killings of Americans cali Feb 2013 #4
Yes, I'm trying to figure out what are the distinctions jberryhill Feb 2013 #13
In these cases, the threat was not even "imminent," but immediate. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #29
Jimmy Lee Dykes was suspected of kidnapping and murder. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #5
oh, good lord yes! This whole story gives me chlls of horror...I can only imagine CTyankee Feb 2013 #6
I heard on the noon news that HappyMe Feb 2013 #9
I think they had gone as far as they could go with him and had a strong inkling that he CTyankee Feb 2013 #12
Isn't probable cause the basis for the killing of suspected terrorists? randome Feb 2013 #10
Someone actively involved in a crime Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #26
We are invited into those countries by their governments. randome Feb 2013 #40
That is not necessarily true. Pakistan did not invite us. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #42
I believe Pakistan furnished information about OBL's location. On the sly, as it were. randome Feb 2013 #44
Pakistani Ambassador to the U.S., Sherry Rehman denies your "secret" agrremnt. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #47
So if this is true, why isn't the government of Pakistan saying it? Why an ambassador? randome Feb 2013 #51
From April of 2012 Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #56
The drone stuff jberryhill Feb 2013 #14
Drones are defined by rules of engagement in an active war. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #66
And Al-Awlaki? jberryhill Feb 2013 #20
Al-Awlaki wasn't a target of law enforcement... Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #31
I believe your concerns are shared jberryhill Feb 2013 #50
You can't surrender to a drone. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #57
I meant prior to it reaching that point jberryhill Feb 2013 #61
People on the battlefield are not surpised that they are targets. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #63
What I'm wondering jberryhill Feb 2013 #67
Do you have any proof for that other than the fact that the government said so? Recursion Feb 2013 #27
There were witnesses from the bus. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #35
It's a bit naive to say SWAT tactics are used to "arrest" people, IMO Recursion Feb 2013 #36
If police were not allowed to defend themselves within the law... Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #38
No, but I also am at worst ambivalent about drone strikes against Americans in arms against the US Recursion Feb 2013 #39
DU rec... SidDithers Feb 2013 #7
He didn't want a trial slackmaster Feb 2013 #8
Well, we don't know what he wanted, now do we? jberryhill Feb 2013 #16
At the point that they had to go in and rescued the child the man did not deserve a trial madokie Feb 2013 #11
Everyone who can be apprehended deserves a trial jberryhill Feb 2013 #17
i agree madokie Feb 2013 #24
Ever heard of "Suicide by Cop"? 2naSalit Feb 2013 #34
I disagree. He deserved a trial. It was his right. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #41
True that madokie Feb 2013 #46
maybe he wasn't American? Whisp Feb 2013 #15
I'm not trying to make a point jberryhill Feb 2013 #18
If the Jimmies plotting against americans in some far off land Whisp Feb 2013 #37
Obama ordered him whacked so he wouldn't talk Brother Buzz Feb 2013 #19
I don't like the sarcasm smilie jberryhill Feb 2013 #22
Done Brother Buzz Feb 2013 #23
People like Jimmy Lee Dykes are their own judge, jury, and executioner... EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #21
Agreed. n/t RebelOne Feb 2013 #43
Let's play The False Equivalency Game: DU Edition NightWatcher Feb 2013 #25
Really? Nothing at all? Recursion Feb 2013 #28
Dykes was a true "imminent" threat. Al-Awaki's teenage kid, not so much. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #30
I agree with you except for Bonnie and Clyde. MicaelS Feb 2013 #32
according to the movie that is madokie Feb 2013 #33
Drones were used during the standoff of Jimmy Lee Dykes. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #45
Uh, because he was engaged in an ongoing crime? ljm2002 Feb 2013 #48
Planning and execution is a good distinction jberryhill Feb 2013 #49
You are right it is seldom black and white... ljm2002 Feb 2013 #52
Oh, I think the finer points do matter jberryhill Feb 2013 #54
This is not a good analogy, IMO cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #53
It wasn't intended as a good analogy jberryhill Feb 2013 #55
I don't know that WDOA exists today cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #58
Because he really did pose an imminent threat to the child as well as to the police. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #59
How do these principles apply in the context of suspected terrorist activities and drone strikes? jberryhill Feb 2013 #69
He chose trial by firing squad. Myrina Feb 2013 #60
As was Isoroku Yamamoto. LanternWaste Feb 2013 #62
Huh? Zoeisright Feb 2013 #64
Ah, thank you for your insight jberryhill Feb 2013 #68
What about Urg? RZM Feb 2013 #65
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