Reply #135

In the discussion thread: Florida father with assault weapon forces wife to watch as he kills two sons [View all]

Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:09 PM

hack89 (21,285 posts)

135. You said everyone is a pre-criminal

Last edited Mon Feb 4, 2013, 06:37 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

that implies a certain cynical perspective towards your fellow citizens.

There are some here that would like to regulate human behavior based on the assumption that everyone is a crime just waiting to happen - and it is not just guns. Pre-rapist and pre-dunk drivers are good examples.

I prefer to regulate human behavior based on the view that the vast majority of Americans are responsible and law abiding. If nothing else it minimizes government intrusion into our lives.

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251 replies	Author	Time	Post
Florida father with assault weapon forces wife to watch as he kills two sons [View all]	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	OP
!!!!!	atreides1	Feb 2013	#1
Obviously he was not law abiding. This was premeditated murder. nt	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#117
The point is that everyone is a responsible, law-abiding citizen	Orrex	Feb 2013	#121
Every man and woman is a pre-criminal?	hack89	Feb 2013	#124
Is that what you think? Because it's certainly not what I wrote.	Orrex	Feb 2013	#132
You said everyone is a pre-criminal	hack89	Feb 2013	#135
Well, it's true, we're all pre-criminals that's why the police are militarized.	xtraxritical	Feb 2013	#137
Show me where I used that term--otherwise you're making a false accusation	Orrex	Feb 2013	#138
It is that entire "lawful gun owner until they are not" meme	hack89	Feb 2013	#140
Don't lay your hang-ups on me	Orrex	Feb 2013	#144
OK nt	hack89	Feb 2013	#145
In the words of Christian Grey, "Fair point well-made!"	panAmerican	Feb 2013	#193
Of course not all gun owners are "a crime just waiting to happen." That smells like straw to me.	nomorenomore08	Feb 2013	#207
Of course not	hack89	Feb 2013	#214
Oh this is well stated!	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#143
But make no mistake--the "pre-criminal" outlook is hack89's, not mine.	Orrex	Feb 2013	#147
I do but I am aware that I live in an area with lots of gangs and crime.	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#181
No where did that person say everyone or anyone is a pre-criminal.	LiberalFighter	Feb 2013	#174
Perhaps the gun wars are getting to me	hack89	Feb 2013	#180
"Law abiding citizen until they're not"	Bake	Feb 2013	#229
Of course, we are all 'pre-criminals' ...	earthside	Feb 2013	#176
THis post added nothing to the conversation at hand.	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#183
A IMPLIES B is does not lead to B IMPLIES A.	TheMadMonk	Feb 2013	#177
This is such a dangerous agenda:	hack89	Feb 2013	#179
Agreed with that. n/t	AverageJoe90	Feb 2013	#162
I disagree. Most criminals have a history I would imagine	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#131
I'm sure that he was	Orrex	Feb 2013	#134
I do doubt that any of us are pure and law abiding in that sense.	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#141
I think that we've reached a good point of agreement	Orrex	Feb 2013	#148
You are wonderful.	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#184
You may have seen "Minority Report" too many times.	Jenoch	Feb 2013	#202
This has nothing to do with guns, but domestic violence	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#166
Seriously. This is a Domestic Violence story and I wish people would get upset about that	uppityperson	Feb 2013	#185
If didn't have a gun, he couldn't strangle them all	tblue	Feb 2013	#198
A gun made the domestic violence murders worse, yes. But let's also notice it was DV and be appalled	uppityperson	Feb 2013	#199
He strangled his first child. He shot the second child. Your logic does not work.	Jenoch	Feb 2013	#204
But as I implied upthread, someone with a gun has a greater means by which to commit violent crimes.	nomorenomore08	Feb 2013	#208
Yes.	REP	Feb 2013	#212
I think I'd have to be taken directly to the psych ward after experiencing that...	hlthe2b	Feb 2013	#2
No wonder she divorced him.	thecrow	Feb 2013	#5
Killing a woman's pets for revenge is not at all rare	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#167
Nope,no regulations or restrictions needed huh NRA?	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#3
What law would have prevented this tragedy?	hack89	Feb 2013	#15
Did you read the article or headline?	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#21
He seems to be the only one who did. The guy had two handguns	Recursion	Feb 2013	#25
It does not say it wasn`t used.	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#30
Yes, it does. It says the non-assault handgun was the one he used	Recursion	Feb 2013	#32
Wrong,it says he shot himself with the other,nothing mentioned on what he killed the one child with	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#40
Yes, and it's possible he used an axe that they didn't mention, too	Recursion	Feb 2013	#45
blah blah blah	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#47
No it isnt	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#55
We both clicked on the link	Recursion	Feb 2013	#56
Why do you exhibit horror at the thought of a particular gun being blamed for the shooting...	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#63
Well, both statements are absolutely false, and frankly beneath you to suggest	Recursion	Feb 2013	#65
THIS.	Chorophyll	Feb 2013	#101
And his hands.	hack89	Feb 2013	#156
You are correct.	Jenoch	Feb 2013	#205
What the fuck does it matter?	AtheistCrusader	Feb 2013	#201
Point to a revolver mild enough that it wouldn't accomplish what he intended in that horrific	AtheistCrusader	Feb 2013	#200
A law banning ALL guns	crim son	Feb 2013	#58
We'll never know will we?	Sekhmets Daughter	Feb 2013	#92
Excellent argument for a nation with zero laws, dude,	kestrel91316	Feb 2013	#108
Of course we need laws	hack89	Feb 2013	#111
"What law would have prevented this tragedy?"	Spitfire of ATJ	Feb 2013	#115
Many states..	Capt13	Feb 2013	#119
sounds like a case detailed at the NIH	green for victory	Feb 2013	#4
Blame anything but access the guns and murderous male rage.	maxsolomon	Feb 2013	#7
It's not a 'this OR that' type of situation ...	Myrina	Feb 2013	#14
Could have been a contributing factor	maxsolomon	Feb 2013	#35
Well, very very few of them	Recursion	Feb 2013	#38
I know of only one.	maxsolomon	Feb 2013	#41
I was thinking of the woman who drove her kids into a reservoir in the car	Recursion	Feb 2013	#48
Along with not killing the children in front of the spouse	maxsolomon	Feb 2013	#95
Right, and not killing the spouse (though this guy didn't kill the wife either)	Recursion	Feb 2013	#96
What about that woman in Texas several years ago ...	Myrina	Feb 2013	#89
Postpartum psychosis...	AnneD	Feb 2013	#93
Do you care?	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#13
He recently became a Mormon as well - very sad story	el_bryanto	Feb 2013	#6
Guns didn't cause this? I doubt the coroner's report agrees with you.	DisgustipatedinCA	Feb 2013	#12
I think a person that disturbed would have done it in some other way	el_bryanto	Feb 2013	#18
Well, the assault weapon he didn't use certainly didn't cause it (nt)	Recursion	Feb 2013	#19
Both of the boys were stangled, so the coroner's report will probably agree with him.	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#24
Even if this guy had no guns at all, those boys would still be dead.	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#61
Who says they stood still or were threatened with a gun?	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#83
So he killed himself with a gun?	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#91
...which doesn't change the fact that the boys would be dead	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#99
He fended her off with the gun deal with it.	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#112
You made that up. Deal with it.	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#120
project much.	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#122
Nope. But you sure do.	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#123
sad	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#129
You wanted a serious reply to 'project much'? LOL	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#155
right back at yah!	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#159
Didn't catch this the first time.	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#125
If the person you are trying to intimidate doesn't care if they die	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#154
Reality catch it.	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#158
So you admit you are wrong. Good for you.	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#160
How lame can you get.	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#161
That's the only explination for your nonsensical posts.	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#163
I just love poster that have to proclaim themselves the "winner".	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#164
One of the boys was shot repeatedly	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#189
No I wasn't wrong.	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#191
You harped on the innocence of the gun	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#195
I hope they don't start talking about rope control or banning ropes.	Jamastiene	Feb 2013	#217
How could he have forced his wife to watch	CitizenPatriot	Feb 2013	#50
To be graphic,	Lars39	Feb 2013	#97
Right	CitizenPatriot	Feb 2013	#116
I have to agree	lostinhere	Feb 2013	#23
a gun is a gun.	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#68
That is nonsensical...	lostinhere	Feb 2013	#126
so you witnessed the crime?	mikeysnot	Feb 2013	#128
No. Did you?	lostinhere	Feb 2013	#225
well, he SHOT them with a GUN.	spanone	Feb 2013	#136
Gosh I missed that -I guess i should read more carefully. nt	el_bryanto	Feb 2013	#139
He shot one son, but strangled both	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#168
Gunshine State	HockeyMom	Feb 2013	#8
Gosh. Why didn't she have a gun of her own?	SheilaT	Feb 2013	#9
I would have been hanging off his back fighting him	Mojorabbit	Feb 2013	#118
The report says she did	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#169
There are no words that can describe how horrible this is.	iandhr	Feb 2013	#10
He did use a non-assault weapon	Recursion	Feb 2013	#22
If he didn't have ANY guns, the kids could have gotten away. They all could	valerief	Feb 2013	#33
No, it says he strangled both. Awful	Recursion	Feb 2013	#34
No, that's not what it says. And the kids would have gotten away if he had no gun.	valerief	Feb 2013	#43
You don't know that	thetonka	Feb 2013	#98
That is not true	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#73
You need to stop. Who cares what kind of gun he used?	Chorophyll	Feb 2013	#103
I'm questioning why the headline said "assault weapon", when the assault weapon was a handgun	Recursion	Feb 2013	#104
Then write a letter to the editor.	Chorophyll	Feb 2013	#106
Which ones, and why? (nt)	Recursion	Feb 2013	#107
The ones that place more importance on proving a gun is innocent than on	Chorophyll	Feb 2013	#151
Except that's none of them	Recursion	Feb 2013	#152
Okay.	Chorophyll	Feb 2013	#153
He killed them with his hands	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#170
I read he strangled both of them then finished them off with shots	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#187
And gun nuts say SUVs kill more people.	Initech	Feb 2013	#11
to them i say ,well the answer is obvious if suv's kill more people then you dont need a gun to	leftyohiolib	Feb 2013	#36
Indeed.	October	Feb 2013	#44
Just look at this thread to see the excuses they make	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#51
Just wrong,so wrong	hollysmom	Feb 2013	#16
The "assault weapon" was not used - it was found in a bag	hack89	Feb 2013	#17
Where in the story does it say the assault weapon was not used?	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#26
When it says he used the .38, and they found a TEC-9 in a duffel bag	Recursion	Feb 2013	#28
It says he used the 38 "on himself"	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#31
Yes, fine, it's possible he used the TEC-9 and they didn't mention it	Recursion	Feb 2013	#52
Answer me this:	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#59
Obviously the crime	Recursion	Feb 2013	#60
If it were obvious, I wouldn't have asked the question	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#64
Yes, you would have, because you like to pretend a moral superiority	Recursion	Feb 2013	#67
All I have to go by are your comments in this thread	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#71
It's a handgun	Recursion	Feb 2013	#78
You are not fixated on the handgun, you are fixated on the assault weapon	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#81
The assault weapon IS A HANDGUN	Recursion	Feb 2013	#82
Yeah, so is an UZI	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#142
An uzi is a submachine gun. This is a perfectly normal pistol	Recursion	Feb 2013	#146
The smaller variants of which are 'machine pistols'	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#188
Wow, someone corrected your ignorance of the facts	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#157
You guys remind me of...	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#190
You remind me of some guy that has absolutely no idea what he is talking about	DesMoinesDem	Feb 2013	#192
Look before you leap	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#194
We know the TEC 9 was not the pistol that was used	hack89	Feb 2013	#237
I'm sure you guys are thankful....	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#238
No - it is the inflammatory headline used to advance a political agenda	hack89	Feb 2013	#239
Only a crackpot would become 'inflamed' by the headline	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#242
Judging by many of the responses here	hack89	Feb 2013	#244
There are three or four people 'inflamed' by the headline	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#245
Including you	hack89	Feb 2013	#246
I'm not a gun nut	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#247
Nuts come in many different flavors.	hack89	Feb 2013	#248
And gun nuts come in one flavor	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#249
I merely pointed out that the headline was misleading	hack89	Feb 2013	#250
The reaction by gun nuts in this thread	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#251
YOUR comment shows you're too ignorant/uneducated about guns that you shouldn't even be involved in	Ghost in the Machine	Feb 2013	#240
You shall sleep well tonight...	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#241
It was put in the headline specifically to enrage unstable gun creeps who care more about whether	DisgustipatedinCA	Feb 2013	#53
Well, I think we both agree the OP gets more traffic because of that phrase	Recursion	Feb 2013	#54
It doesn`t say it wasn`t used,what he shot the one child with is not specified.	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#29
I suppose it's possible he used an axe and they didn't mention that too	Recursion	Feb 2013	#37
Whatever,just another excuse from a gun lover	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#46
Is name calling your solution to all problems, or just important ones?	cthulu2016	Feb 2013	#69
Truth telling is more like it.	libtodeath	Feb 2013	#72
It doesn't say it the TEC-9 wasn't used, but that it was found in a bag.	DollarBillHines	Feb 2013	#39
Granted; it's possible he used the TEC-9 and they aren't saying anything about it	Recursion	Feb 2013	#49
The TEC-9 was found in a bag. Both kids were strangled.	hack89	Feb 2013	#76
One kid was shot and one was strangled	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#79
Actually no - both were strangled and one was also shot.	hack89	Feb 2013	#86
Horrific nt	DesertRat	Feb 2013	#20
If only he had married a gun instead of a person, this never would have happened.	valerief	Feb 2013	#27
If only the kids were packing heat, this wouldn't have happened.	alfredo	Feb 2013	#87
The Depravity Of America's Gun Culture Is Now Legend	cantbeserious	Feb 2013	#42
Another "Good Guy" with a gun	bongbong	Feb 2013	#57
Somehow, I don't think this guy was NRA material	NickB79	Feb 2013	#62
His neighbors said he was a hardworking, church going, helpful neighbor	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#70
He strangled the boys. nt	hack89	Feb 2013	#77
Guns...guns and more guns	amuse bouche	Feb 2013	#66
A lot of abused women may not realize how important it is to go to trial	ecstatic	Feb 2013	#74
sick sick sick sad story. nt	abelenkpe	Feb 2013	#75
How horrible!	AndyA	Feb 2013	#80
Although the gun aspect is garnering attention, I've been reading stories just like it for 50 years.	freshwest	Feb 2013	#110
I've heard the "preserve the family" line as well.	AndyA	Feb 2013	#127
There may always be two generations growing up differently and in opposition to each other. Sigh...	freshwest	Feb 2013	#149
Thank for you a sane post	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#171
I am more into prevention - that costs money. It's why things get out of hand. We need action.	freshwest	Feb 2013	#175
Very good post	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#216
thank you. This is nothing new, DV and all associated with it have been around for a long long time	uppityperson	Feb 2013	#186
8 characteristics of family annihilators	Recursion	Feb 2013	#84
The argument will always	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#85
Hm	Recursion	Feb 2013	#88
First of all,	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#219
How about a .49 caliber? Would that be OK?	Recursion	Feb 2013	#220
The Russians	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#222
It's certainly within Congress's power; I don't really care one way or another	Recursion	Feb 2013	#224
Excellent!	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#227
I'm not sure I follow that logic	Recursion	Feb 2013	#228
Anyone bent on killing	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#231
There will still be AR15s if the AWB passes	Recursion	Feb 2013	#232
I was suggesting	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#233
I like the sound of that	Recursion	Feb 2013	#234
Then we need to	sulphurdunn	Feb 2013	#235
236 posts was all it took to get complete agreement on something	Recursion	Feb 2013	#236
MORE GUNS!	Iggo	Feb 2013	#90
I've never been to Florida	Ian Iam	Feb 2013	#94
You don't want to	HockeyMom	Feb 2013	#133
Domestic violence, "traditional" gender roles, power, conrtrol, GUNS.	Chorophyll	Feb 2013	#100
He is another article with some more details	thetonka	Feb 2013	#102
I wish I hadn't read this. I think I'm going to be sick. n/t	FourScore	Feb 2013	#105
:( me too felt nauseous	LukeFL	Feb 2013	#196
The gun held her at bay while he killed the kids.	Not Me	Feb 2013	#109
horrible	Liberal_in_LA	Feb 2013	#113
That's a result of a patriarchal society. Men think they can make their	Cleita	Feb 2013	#114
That's nonsense	Orrex	Feb 2013	#130
in the OP story i believe the woman DID leave him and filed for divorce	JI7	Feb 2013	#150
J17 is dead on with his/her post	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#172
Domestic murder	obamanut2012	Feb 2013	#165
Guns or not, this man was pure evil.	Rex	Feb 2013	#173
One very lost man who felt he had no choice but to commit this horror	geckosfeet	Feb 2013	#178
Wow, way to take away the guilt of the man.	KitSileya	Feb 2013	#210
Obviously he is guilty. But imo he must be deranged to commit this act.	geckosfeet	Feb 2013	#215
I do understand what you're saying.	KitSileya	Feb 2013	#218
There is that. Which may be a counseling topic.	geckosfeet	Feb 2013	#221
Definitely. The fetishisation of guns in certain segments of the American population is scary.	KitSileya	Feb 2013	#230
Frank Luntz would be proud	krispos42	Feb 2013	#182
Are you implying guns are	LukeFL	Feb 2013	#197
Certainly not to the extent that those giant corporations are	krispos42	Feb 2013	#213
A horrible, horrible incident causing this woman unimaginable grief...	Lydia Leftcoast	Feb 2013	#203
By the way, not the only such incident reported today:	Lydia Leftcoast	Feb 2013	#206
if she had a hand gun avaliable	okieinpain	Feb 2013	#209
Thats what they are saying at Freerepublic	AgingAmerican	Feb 2013	#243
This guy should be the posterchild (no pun intended) for the assault weapons ban	davidpdx	Feb 2013	#211
This is what happens when the gun grabbers ban 30 round clips	jpak	Feb 2013	#223
That which calls itself "Christianity" needs to examine its conscience.	patrice	Feb 2013	#226

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