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seabeyond

(110,159 posts)

48. true that. it is also known that more attractive people will be hired over the less

Reply to Chathamization (Reply #45)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:51 PM

Jan 2013

attractive regardless of "more capable". smoker vs non smoker. young vs old

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do men, who do not believe in white male privilege/entitlement oppose affirmative action? [View all] seabeyond Jan 2013 OP

I think they mostly do Generic Other Jan 2013 #1

then i would think that would just be another reason that it would be hard to get white males seabeyond Jan 2013 #2

I've never understood the "as capable" thing Recursion Jan 2013 #3

ya. in my job i did a lot of hiring. the whole comparative "as capable". but, there seabeyond Jan 2013 #5

Yep. Affirmative action counteracts negative action. gollygee Jan 2013 #11

I guess sales jobs are quantifiable Recursion Jan 2013 #24

I think the NFL should hire the best canidate. Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #4

Best is as much qualitative as quantitative MattBaggins Jan 2013 #23

How does the OP explain that about 70% of NFL players are black? Racism in coaching, merit on the Romulox Jan 2013 #6

big difference between the front office jobs and head coach, and the players on the field. seabeyond Jan 2013 #9

"Big difference" doesn't explain why the players are selected for merit, but coaches aren't. Romulox Jan 2013 #15

as i said, i think that there is a conscious and unconscious belief that white male own those seabeyond Jan 2013 #20

When you phrase it like that, I actually agree. Romulox Jan 2013 #22

So if you support affirmite action, should there be less black players? Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #26

it is with numbers. times. passes. scores. those are clear black and white number to the best seabeyond Jan 2013 #34

Your argument in fact exposes the insitiutionalized racism in the system MattBaggins Jan 2013 #29

wouldn't they be the largest pool of potential future coaches? seabeyond Jan 2013 #35

It is a huge red flag MattBaggins Jan 2013 #41

It would be my expectation that coaching ability ... dawg Jan 2013 #51

also, having been in management, that is kinda a precieved ability and if one is conditioned seabeyond Jan 2013 #52

That's a big issue with the quarterback as well. dawg Jan 2013 #58

I'm not sure it's true that "blacks make up the largest number of players". That's only confirmed Romulox Jan 2013 #98

How do you explain it? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #13

Occam's razor: owners are acting in their perceived best interest--selecting people they think will Romulox Jan 2013 #17

Fair enough. Is it possible, however, that the owners hire coaches within their comfort zone? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #19

You and seabeyond both make good points. Romulox Jan 2013 #25

There are 32 teams in the NFL with 3 current black head coaches Major Nikon Jan 2013 #71

Good point. nt Romulox Jan 2013 #97

I have this conversation frequently with my younger co-workers. MindPilot Jan 2013 #7

So how well does that argument go over pennylane100 Jan 2013 #36

Good point. MindPilot Jan 2013 #43

a person with low income has much more chance at scholarships seabeyond Jan 2013 #44

That's why there needs to be organizations to address class privilege as well Hippo_Tron Jan 2013 #76

I don't believe in Affirmative Action theKed Jan 2013 #8

then you ignore the part where people inherently go toward a white person as opposed to a black seabeyond Jan 2013 #10

You ought to actually read my post theKed Jan 2013 #28

It suffices... MattBaggins Jan 2013 #50

I think the large pachyderm in the room is... MindPilot Jan 2013 #16

yep. nt okaawhatever Jan 2013 #88

"the best candidate for the job" is at the end of the day MattBaggins Jan 2013 #46

No theKed Jan 2013 #60

They often are MattBaggins Jan 2013 #63

Why does everyone theKed Jan 2013 #64

In lieu of rainbows and unicorns... MattBaggins Jan 2013 #65

I do hope theKed Jan 2013 #67

You're either ignoring human behavior or don't know about it... uponit7771 Jan 2013 #101

Your discussion won't be meaningful unless ... Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #12

true that. i recognize that. you are right. and i am not here to battle the notion either. seabeyond Jan 2013 #18

Ah, but is he defending women by going after dead beat dads or is he punishing men he doesn't see okaawhatever Jan 2013 #94

his career is with city?county? going after those (man or woman) that does not pay child support. seabeyond Jan 2013 #95

Ah, good for him. My dad was a pilot in the Air Force, I always love seeing women pilots! nt okaawhatever Jan 2013 #96

Hire the best people for the job. Don't obsess about checking off boxes. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #14

This message was self-deleted by its author OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #72

I have nuanced views on affirmative action. dawg Jan 2013 #21

But since I *do* believe in white male privilege ... dawg Jan 2013 #32

having teenage boys we are discussing these types of issues often. seabeyond Jan 2013 #37

When you grow to love someone ... dawg Jan 2013 #40

that is an excellent way to say it dawg. exactly. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #42

being one of those men hfojvt Jan 2013 #27

thanks for your explanation. more a philosophical question that heart bleeding. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #38

I really like the last paragraph. MindPilot Jan 2013 #49

MFL coaches DO hfojvt Jan 2013 #66

I think your example of the NFL is bad, here's why. Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #30

i really liked moon. thank you for your post. it explains a lot. very interesting. seabeyond Jan 2013 #39

Doug Williams hfojvt Jan 2013 #61

It starts in high school having black kids run the option, and it is indicative Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #73

Marino never won a ring either hfojvt Jan 2013 #110

So you don't think that black quarterbacks are encouraged to run more Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #112

poor? poor? hfojvt Jan 2013 #113

I oppose affirmative action because I watch my dad barely scrape by... Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #31

My wife works at a college. KansDem Jan 2013 #33

Is it possible those women were in fact just as qualified? MattBaggins Jan 2013 #55

If they weren't qualified they would not keep abelenkpe Jan 2013 #108

The only time I've seen open discrimination in hiring Chathamization Jan 2013 #45

true that. it is also known that more attractive people will be hired over the less seabeyond Jan 2013 #48

I would hire a non-smoker over a smoker in a heartbeat. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #54

because they can only take a smoke break when breaks are allowed for all, and cause they are seabeyond Jan 2013 #57

Yeah, and I think there can be a generational rift Chathamization Jan 2013 #70

very good point. i know it is that way with our younger women. but then, they have had a couple seabeyond Jan 2013 #81

I get surprised sometimes Chathamization Jan 2013 #89

...only after laws are enacted that go against base human behavior. It's HUMAN to want to relate to uponit7771 Jan 2013 #103

I harbor some doubts. creon Jan 2013 #47

The Rooney Rule Sheldon Cooper Jan 2013 #53

& Dungy proved that Bucs not being S Bowl champs wasn't about him when Colts won w/him as head coach okaawhatever Jan 2013 #99

I actually will go a bit furhter. I want to see marvin lewis fired. Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #56

At some point customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #59

I recognize white male privilege, yet I still oppose affirmative action... MellowDem Jan 2013 #62

People also tend to hire mzteris Jan 2013 #68

he is young. and he talks. he does not walk it perfectly yet, but... he listens. seabeyond Jan 2013 #84

I'm sorry, mzteris Jan 2013 #90

exactly. you know and you see it. but, seabeyond Jan 2013 #93

Who here doesn't believe in white privilege? Major Nikon Jan 2013 #69

I think jobs should be awarded based on the best person applying for the job. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #74

"Best" is usually subjective for most jobs Nikia Jan 2013 #80

So help economically disadvantaged people, whatever their race happens to be. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #83

Yes. If any minorities do happen to be systematically more disadvantaged, then they will OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #87

but we have found that does not work and ignores the problem. as i said, all you have to do is look seabeyond Jan 2013 #86

I can see how in any given year there would be no black head coaches in the NFL... Hippo_Tron Jan 2013 #75

Why are blacks overrepresented as NBA coaches? (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #77

Not sure, but why does it matter? Hippo_Tron Jan 2013 #79

Good point. Perhaps the racial makeup of NFL coaches doesn't mean much after all (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #82

As I said, in any given year it doesn't... Hippo_Tron Jan 2013 #85

I think that the presence of women and minorities in previously all white male organizations Nikia Jan 2013 #78

Reality check. 99Forever Jan 2013 #91

Yep. And the billionaire NBA owners decided that 14 black guys out of 30 coaches Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #92

I don't think that the OP was suggesting that NFL owners were racist. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #102

Neither is the voting rights act...come on, the "aint" argument died after 2008 uponit7771 Jan 2013 #104

Great. 99Forever Jan 2013 #105

I understand affirmative action to be about recruitment - not quotas aikoaiko Jan 2013 #100

Interesting ... Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #106

Is this about "Head Coach" positions? Or does it include assistants? JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #107

I favor AA, but it is not designed to last forever and ever bluestateguy Jan 2013 #109

Playing and coaching require two different sets of abilities LittleBlue Jan 2013 #111