General Discussion

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)

22. and yet, lead really is a special case, because it's most prevalent source was eliminated

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:43 AM

Jan 2013

so you really have a way to study times with and without those levels of exposure.

just like they learned a lot about air pollution from one interesting moment in time:

when one of the most heavily polluted areas (Particulate Matter) had it's primary source go out of commission when it's workers went on a lengthy strike.

so i wouldn't necessarily dismiss it.

and far from being racist, if the causal link is the presence of lead, and the hypothesis also says that there is no natural linkage between race and crime, then that's an argument against, not for racism.

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About that "lead exposure caused the youth violence of the 70s-90s" research... [View all] HiPointDem Jan 2013 OP

I Am Inclined To Agree, Sir: Pretty Fishy The Magistrate Jan 2013 #1

Indeed. There are a lot of angles; one is that attributing social problems to lead exposure means HiPointDem Jan 2013 #3

Nothing Works So Good As Plenty Of Jobs At Good Pay, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2013 #4

and yet, lead really is a special case, because it's most prevalent source was eliminated CreekDog Jan 2013 #22

Except... Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #13

"Multiple countries" = 6, all in western europe. Japan, for example, was not investigated. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #34

Because we all know what a right wing tool Mother Jones is? fasttense Jan 2013 #21

Keep Leaping To Conclusions Like That, Sir, You Will Come A Cropper The Magistrate Jan 2013 #28

Rick Nevin wants to use tax money to replace windows in REOs to increase their value to HiPointDem Jan 2013 #37

Link from Wednesday here in the UK dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #2

You notice they don't cite the studies (so you can't read them); only one researcher's name is HiPointDem Jan 2013 #6

I appreciate that. dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #8

I'd also be interested in knowing what Mielke's actually degreed in -- he got his PhD in 1972, HiPointDem Jan 2013 #9

I thought the decrease in crime since the 90s was a function of boomers getting older JVS Jan 2013 #5

However, if lead exposure directly caused violent behavior at a neurological level, you'd expect HiPointDem Jan 2013 #7

"Directly caused", no, more like "contributed to" Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #15

yes, i understand that men tend to be more violent than women, & young men more so than HiPointDem Jan 2013 #46

Article of interest 2on2u Jan 2013 #10

Popular articles on such topics aren't worth much. Lead is a neurotoxin, that's not controversial. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #11

Probably because someone has found a way to get free stuff stemming from a bad 2on2u Jan 2013 #14

being as the paper is from 2007, actually it is pretty new. and given the lack of similar papers, HiPointDem Jan 2013 #16

... Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #18

"boys may be even more susceptible than girls...this study is the first to document a statistically HiPointDem Jan 2013 #45

I will give it my best when I get home.... it is common knowledge that boys tend to exhibit 2on2u Jan 2013 #29

I saw there's a new paper out about lead & ADHD too. They're hitting it hard. But it made me HiPointDem Jan 2013 #44

Some people treat from a biochemical standpoint, take the Pfeifer Research Center for 2on2u Jan 2013 #60

What I'm asking is, if it's so certain that lead is a leading cause of ADHD, why don't diagnosis & HiPointDem Jan 2013 #61

Multifactorial comes to mind, some toxicity issues mimick genetic illness/syndromes, so it is 2on2u Jan 2013 #64

If lead is supposedly a major cause, yes, it's hard to imagine why testing wouldn't be routine. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #66

Except that's hardly the only source for this Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #12

Yeah. I'm kind of surprised this is so surprising to people Recursion Jan 2013 #24

LOL. It hasn't been 'studied extensively' at all. Take your link, for example: HiPointDem Jan 2013 #25

They did the study *because the etiology was already established*, which you keep ignoring Recursion Jan 2013 #33

The etiology of lead & neurotoxicity/IQ. Not violence. Violence isn't the reason they were doing HiPointDem Jan 2013 #43

Neurotoxicity and prefrontal lobe damage can lead to aggressive and violent behaviour Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #62

key word: 'can'. not 'is' on some predictable basis. most patients with frontal lobes lesions HiPointDem Jan 2013 #65

they correlate well though. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #68

no. they don't 'correlate well'. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #69

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #70

lol. you post random research you haven't read & pretend you know what you're talking about. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #71

Hardly "random" and I've read enough on the subject... Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #72

get the lead out Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #17

I'm all for getting the lead out of toxic sites, reducing smelter emissions & similar projects. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #32

It did sound like a preposterous theory. UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #19

The Nation did a long, fairly extensive article on this in March 2000. Fuddnik Jan 2013 #20

It doesn't say anything significant about lead as a causal factor in violent crime, because the HiPointDem Jan 2013 #26

You read that 10 page article in five minutes? Fuddnik Jan 2013 #36

I read part of that article before. I also happen to be fairly confident there is only one HiPointDem Jan 2013 #42

Is this really the first you guys have heard of the lead-antisocial link? Recursion Jan 2013 #23

Lead is a well-known neurotoxin. The research on links to violence is minimal, correlative only, HiPointDem Jan 2013 #30

I'm not sure "correlation" means what you think it does Recursion Jan 2013 #31

The research on lead and 'anti-social behavior' going back to the 50s is weak (as might be guessed HiPointDem Jan 2013 #41

"Lead-safe window replacement"? Oy. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #27

It's not just inner-city housing he's talking about. It's any/all bank-owned property that could HiPointDem Jan 2013 #38

Which pushes back even harder on "lead-safe". Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #39

Regardless of provenance quaker bill Jan 2013 #35

I agree, it bears looking into. And I agree, the evidence tying the correlation to levels of HiPointDem Jan 2013 #40

Good data and analysis is good data and analysis quaker bill Jan 2013 #53

I would too, except that in this case this particular author appears to be cited in nearly every HiPointDem Jan 2013 #54

Meta analysis is legit as an endeavor quaker bill Jan 2013 #55

he's not doing meta-analysis. there isn't even enough in the literature for it. He's HiPointDem Jan 2013 #56

More like journalism then? quaker bill Jan 2013 #58

More like selective review of the (limited) literature. Though I question any lit review that cites HiPointDem Jan 2013 #59

About that "inner city" objection jeff47 Jan 2013 #47

actually, no, there were more whites in a lot of those urban areas, most notably nyc. if lead HiPointDem Jan 2013 #48

NYC also had lots of non-black crime jeff47 Jan 2013 #49

who is Rick Nevin RickNevin Jan 2013 #50

Wow. Rapid response team, or what? HiPointDem Jan 2013 #51

Let me try this one more time RickNevin Jan 2013 #57

Who stands to profit the most from your suggested solution? NT rbixby Jan 2013 #52

Big banks qualify for taxpayer funded lead abatement? Oilwellian Jan 2013 #63

Citations to The Bell Curve definitely runs up a red flag for me. yardwork Jan 2013 #67