General Discussion

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)

99. Where does his post err? Have not government services (and taxes) steadily grown since

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:59 PM

Jan 2013

the founding of our republic?

Even as recently as pre-FDR, people were entirely on their own. This may not be the type of society that you prefer, but the post seems entirely accurate to me.

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We have a "right" to own guns, but not a right to health care, food, shelter, clothing, employment [View all] Hugabear Jan 2013 OP

That's what you need the guns for! jberryhill Jan 2013 #1

Yep, be self employed, go and get whatever you need like the cave men did... freshwest Jan 2013 #45

This means that RKBA is actually a privilege to extort others politically through threats to kill patrice Jan 2013 #2

Ding ding ding!!! 2naSalit Jan 2013 #27

When the Second Amendment was written JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #3

Excuse me while I go cleanse my brain after having read that. Whovian Jan 2013 #7

There isn't enough detergent to clean that away! etherealtruth Jan 2013 #73

Where does his post err? Have not government services (and taxes) steadily grown since Flatulo Jan 2013 #99

People have never been entirely on their own in this country. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #132

The OP specifically speaks to the apparent inhumanity of food and shelter not being Flatulo Jan 2013 #137

Jefferson wanted to see idle land and the estates of the wealthy aristrocrats broken up and JDPriestly Jan 2013 #142

Jefferson was quite the radical for the time. Flatulo Jan 2013 #145

Work gives meaning, purpose and dignity to life, JDPriestly Jan 2013 #146

People often ask me how I keep busy in retirement, and the truth is I often run out of time Flatulo Jan 2013 #147

People lived short, poverty-stricken lives obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #8

+1! n/t markpkessinger Jan 2013 #56

+10000000!!!!! And because of that even rich people died.... Walk away Jan 2013 #136

excuse me, barbtries Jan 2013 #9

The Constitution simply does not provide for all kinds of government action that amandabeech Jan 2013 #39

Outstanding post! N/T GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #95

How does that explain banks being too big to prosecute? Dragonfli Jan 2013 #97

but it's only a recent thing GirlinContempt Jan 2013 #120

Well it's too bad then when the Dems had the Executive Branch and the Congress Cherchez la Femme Jan 2013 #133

Is this what's currently being taught in GED courses? LanternWaste Jan 2013 #12

That's a nice right-wing talking point you got yourself there. Hugabear Jan 2013 #14

bwahahahahahaaaa spanone Jan 2013 #21

You make the mistake of thinking that everyone wants to take your stuff. Most people just want patrice Jan 2013 #22

Well said, patrice! Dont call me Shirley Jan 2013 #24

Thanks! and I won't call you Shirley . . . patrice Jan 2013 #26

Huh, what? Take what away? The easy ability to Kill others because they are pissed about something? RC Jan 2013 #36

We now have our military and National Guard to protect us from outside kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #78

To Poster #3...Sociologically, this is factual. The rural, extended families of the 19th Century libdem4life Jan 2013 #85

I am guessing you've never had a history lesson. But they why should you? nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #98

bosh GirlinContempt Jan 2013 #121

There has been a transition from "Don't look to government to solve things" to,... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #129

yea, right....that was when Delmette Jan 2013 #138

Oh right, I keep forgetting... primavera Jan 2013 #139

There were no mulltinationals back then War Horse Jan 2013 #141

Right, because guns are the only way to defend against anything rbixby Jan 2013 #153

well, just saying here, d_r Jan 2013 #4

"General welfare" is in the Constitution; "gun" is not. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #28

i get you d_r Jan 2013 #32

You're quoting the Dec. of Independence; but same principle. nt SunSeeker Jan 2013 #44

with liberty and justice for all nt d_r Jan 2013 #64

How do you interpret the General Welfare clause? Please be specific. nt Flatulo Jan 2013 #102

The clause covers such a broad array of interests even the Supreme Court cannot be "specific." SunSeeker Jan 2013 #114

Thanks for the detailed response. I'm shamefully uneducated on the Constitution. nt Flatulo Jan 2013 #115

I agree Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #5

This is why I put quotation marks around the word "right" Hugabear Jan 2013 #11

What issues ought we be getting worked up about that we aren't? lapislzi Jan 2013 #16

To have the courts rule as many here on DU would like would take a constitutional amendment. amandabeech Jan 2013 #46

yep. barbtries Jan 2013 #6

You mistate the right, it's "That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain jody Jan 2013 #10

Actually, you do have a right to health care, food, shelter, etc. montanto Jan 2013 #13

So then the government providing those things is unconstitutional? Wednesdays Jan 2013 #84

Nobody said that. OnionPatch Jan 2013 #86

No, just stupid. Flatulo Jan 2013 #88

Not being prohibited from purchasing something sibelian Jan 2013 #135

That's a good observation, and I would add that our constitution guarantees the former Flatulo Jan 2013 #148

Didn't FDR attempt to pass a second bill of rights with a lot of those other items in it? nt Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #15

You're exactly right. The "2nd Bill of Rights" Hugabear Jan 2013 #18

Whose main proponent, FDR'S VP Henry Wallace, got passed over in the rush into the Cold War & patrice Jan 2013 #25

Yeah, that was the FIRST... ReRe Jan 2013 #37

Democrats need to ADMIT this nearly fatal mistake; it really did HELP bring us here. patrice Jan 2013 #42

Absolutely.. ReRe Jan 2013 #57

I like!!! this, because it's not piece-meal, which has disempowered so much in the past, by making patrice Jan 2013 #60

Globalization and Chinese slave labor seem to have put the kibosh on articles 1 and 2. nt Flatulo Jan 2013 #149

I think you are confusing things davidn3600 Jan 2013 #17

Funny how guns are enshrined, but responsibility to take care of its own citizens is not Hugabear Jan 2013 #20

Our society and the world is far more complicated than it was back then. So you can't blame them. davidn3600 Jan 2013 #31

Plus, people had the good sense to die in their forties, LOL. The framers could not have Flatulo Jan 2013 #150

Kind of tough for me to rationalize the nobility of the constitution LanternWaste Jan 2013 #33

Where in the Constitution are blacks considered 3/5 of whites? nt Flatulo Jan 2013 #69

Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the United States Constitution former9thward Jan 2013 #81

I'm ashamed that I didn't know that. Flatulo Jan 2013 #82

Guns aren't enshrined; unfortunately, the RW Supremes think they are. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #34

Well......yes and no... davidn3600 Jan 2013 #63

It is SCOTUS' fault. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #89

We could change it that those other items are included Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #43

Our constitution guarantees you the right and the opportunity to pursue those things, but Flatulo Jan 2013 #90

But then, at least according to some lights, they stacked Congress against us, by jimmying represent patrice Jan 2013 #35

I support an expansion of rights. hack89 Jan 2013 #19

Great post! nt raccoon Jan 2013 #23

Mao said power comes from the barrel of a gun blazeKing Jan 2013 #29

WOLVERINES! Hugabear Jan 2013 #49

And yet a bunch of ragtag Afghans are giving us hell using only small arms. Flatulo Jan 2013 #100

Using only small arms? Hugabear Jan 2013 #103

I don't know what the formal definition is, but I meant arms that can be carried by a Flatulo Jan 2013 #106

Most of those weapons are illegal to own in this country - or at least tightly regulated Hugabear Jan 2013 #107

No weak guerilla force could EVER harrass the entire U.S. military FrodosPet Jan 2013 #154

OFFS progressoid Jan 2013 #118

If it really comes to that JackInGreen Jan 2013 #126

The more that one looks at the faulty logic of gun-ownership, the more convinced one becomes that patrice Jan 2013 #30

I think for many it's an act of defiance, a statement that one is an American and cannot Flatulo Jan 2013 #101

For some of us that act of defiance is in demonstrating in the streets abouthe issues & candidates. patrice Jan 2013 #104

Clearly you're not the average person. Most Americans are apathetic to the point of complete Flatulo Jan 2013 #110

Being a young adult in the late '60s & then having kids in the '70s made me sensitive to nuclear patrice Jan 2013 #111

Good on you, then. Most of the females in my life are also troublemakers and they keep me Flatulo Jan 2013 #113

It seems like you are confused...... librabear Jan 2013 #38

Gun ownership has effects upon people who CHOOSE not to own guns. One of those effects is patrice Jan 2013 #50

No librabear Jan 2013 #54

You have a "right" to the gun established by a faulty Constitution. If it weren't in there, you patrice Jan 2013 #62

Faulty? librabear Jan 2013 #66

so your saying the poorest Americans have cable tv air conditioning azurnoir Jan 2013 #68

In spite of the government. librabear Jan 2013 #76

Written by white propertied males FOR white propertied males. Certainly you know the history of patrice Jan 2013 #70

Tell us, where is the Federal Reserve in all of that Constitutional perfection? patrice Jan 2013 #71

You know the answer as well as I do. librabear Jan 2013 #79

I'm not as attached to labels as some. People should remember that words, including those in patrice Jan 2013 #80

I agree librabear Jan 2013 #125

I still use labels as social orienting points, but all is in process & always has been, so what we patrice Jan 2013 #127

I bet you do Hugabear Jan 2013 #109

What's that supposed to mean? librabear Jan 2013 #122

Nice right-wing talking point. Thanks for playing. Hugabear Jan 2013 #108

say what you want librabear Jan 2013 #124

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Glaug-Eldare Jan 2013 #116

Americans make lots of bad choices that adversely affect their fellow citizens. Flatulo Jan 2013 #117

something is seriously wrong samsingh Jan 2013 #40

... 2naSalit Jan 2013 #41

Yes, there IS something wrong with this picture... ReRe Jan 2013 #47

I believe in universal health care, but your comparison is apples and oranges. crazyjoe Jan 2013 #48

SHOW us this proposal where anyone is saying, "for free". patrice Jan 2013 #52

Excuse me, you got a little right-wing in your salad there. Hugabear Jan 2013 #53

Maybe YOU can't imagine such a thing, but what people want is JOBS, good jobs that respect workers & patrice Jan 2013 #55

That goes back to the Founding Fathers and the Revolution NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #51

Poor comparison. I have the "right" to buy a gun, food, shelter, health care, clothing. uppityperson Jan 2013 #58

Terrible argument. You have a right to own guns you BUY cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #59

Agreed. So we should change the definition of "BUY" because money is a cruel PRIVATE joke anyway. nt patrice Jan 2013 #65

bunch of fucking dumbasses, the lot of 'em. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #61

I believe in the 2nd Bill of Rights outlined by FDR and the right to keep and bear arms TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #67

We have a cynical view of "individualism." DirkGently Jan 2013 #72

I believe we do have the right to those things Politicub Jan 2013 #74

I fully support the Second Amendment Creideiki Jan 2013 #75

Perfectly stated. nt SunSeeker Jan 2013 #91

"A well-regulated militia" Cherchez la Femme Jan 2013 #143

Unfortunately, NightOwwl Jan 2013 #77

Americans' rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are subordinated to others' rights indepat Jan 2013 #83

LOL. May you be reincarnated as a house cat. Flatulo Jan 2013 #87

I haven't read any great, not good housecat poetry LATELY, Cherchez la Femme Jan 2013 #144

We have a right to all that, we've just been screwed out of most of it. nt rrneck Jan 2013 #92

Or that the people who own guns also claim to be pro life. Initech Jan 2013 #93

Totally messed up analogy Yo_Mama Jan 2013 #94

The Second Bill of Rights would have taken care of some of that. Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #96

They want guns to fight the US government, but they don't want military cuts ecstatic Jan 2013 #105

Must admit...this was the best post tonight...! TheProgressive Jan 2013 #112

The answer to your question is really pretty simple, maybe not what you want, but simple enough. 1-Old-Man Jan 2013 #119

As much as I like this line of argument Rex Jan 2013 #123

hell, you might not have the right to own a chicken. mopinko Jan 2013 #128

I think the right analogy would be there are now more bullets than eggs 1-Old-Man Jan 2013 #131

Just seems like Flatpicker Jan 2013 #130

A lot of other things should be on the list as indispensible 'rights'. randome Jan 2013 #134

I'm about to post this exact same question on Yahoo Answers Jamaal510 Jan 2013 #140

Topsy -Turvy for sure . orpupilofnature57 Jan 2013 #151

Confirms How Deranged Half The Country Truly Is Today cantbeserious Jan 2013 #152

Everyone has a "right" to all those things already madville Jan 2013 #155