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You forgot the F... lame54 Jan 2013 #1
Don't really hold with that el_bryanto Jan 2013 #2
Change comes when you bring people aboard - not alienate them lame54 Jan 2013 #4
Is that the only concern though? el_bryanto Jan 2013 #12
i want to be clear though. even though, over time, i have decided a man cannot be a feminist, seabeyond Jan 2013 #15
Same here. redqueen Jan 2013 #25
Yea that ship slipped into port and out agian Confusious Jan 2013 #68
thank you for this thoughtful, balanced OP seabeyond Jan 2013 #3
It's polarizing. Not a good idea in my opinion. Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #5
Just a question and comment on one point, polly7 Jan 2013 #6
This concept is far from new ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #7
That poll was useless. Should have been restricted to women. redqueen Jan 2013 #8
I do agree that it would have been more useful el_bryanto Jan 2013 #9
Just the fact that it wasn't automatically done that way speaks volumes redqueen Jan 2013 #10
That's a fair point n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #11
another thought. a man titles himself a feminist and there are all types of rewards. seabeyond Jan 2013 #13
That is a good point el_bryanto Jan 2013 #14
true. the pat on the back for the man would not happen in a group of men, here in texas seabeyond Jan 2013 #17
I do think the key point is that woman are punished for declaring themselves feminist. n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #24
You think I would get rewards for calling myself a feminist? dawg Jan 2013 #16
we did clarify that.... living in texas as i do. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #18
I don't call myself a feminist, but Georgia isn't the reason. dawg Jan 2013 #20
Like Jenny's hippie boyfriend from Forrest Gump! dawg Jan 2013 #21
ya, that. there is an element of that. i think the sincerity rings true though. seabeyond Jan 2013 #23
Often a man who declares himself a feminist is a Nice Guy (TM) KitSileya Jan 2013 #32
Do you think that a MTF Transsexual should qualify to be allowed to call herself a Feminist? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #52
It would be very healthy to this discussion WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #19
That is true; but not sure of the utility of including the rest of the world in the discussion el_bryanto Jan 2013 #22
My biggest issue is your last point gollygee Jan 2013 #26
I can see where you are coming from el_bryanto Jan 2013 #28
In my experience Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #27
I have to say most minorities don't have the luxory of doing this dsc Jan 2013 #29
Nobody said that gollygee Jan 2013 #30
"We don't want our movement to be defined or controlled by men" sibelian Jan 2013 #45
It should be clear that this isn't about restricting support for the feminist movement el_bryanto Jan 2013 #31
I don't necessarily think feminist = woman dsc Jan 2013 #33
the gay movement is about gays. the black movement is about blacks. the feminist movement is NOT seabeyond Jan 2013 #34
are you sure that's the case? CreekDog Jan 2013 #43
and being in an oppressed group i think you will find most all feminists involved are concerned seabeyond Jan 2013 #49
i'm not saying you're wrong about feminists, i'm saying you're wrong about... CreekDog Jan 2013 #55
of course they do creekdog, but i think you are missing the point. seabeyond Jan 2013 #58
"declaring yourself a feminist is kind of like declaring yourself an honorary woman" sibelian Jan 2013 #47
I think the issue is the attitude that that engenders el_bryanto Jan 2013 #50
I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand the how people actually react to being told to screw off Kurska Jan 2013 #56
I think a certain amount of empathy is required to take this route el_bryanto Jan 2013 #69
I appreciate your post, I don't really have a proper response at this time though. Kurska Jan 2013 #71
interesting. seabeyond Jan 2013 #72
El bryanto is a man and you're a woman? I honestly had no idea. Kurska Jan 2013 #74
foolish and self defeating. how do you expect me to support. seabeyond Jan 2013 #91
I was dismissing the idea of restricting the term to women. Kurska Jan 2013 #92
I'm not the combative type (most of the time) el_bryanto Jan 2013 #77
actually, seabeyond Jan 2013 #89
.... sibelian Jan 2013 #63
I think many of us gollygee Jan 2013 #96
Did you ever think maybe YOUR assumptions and preconceptions about MEN are the problem? Bonobo Jan 2013 #93
Percieved Slights of a personal nature el_bryanto Jan 2013 #106
"Many men have a NATURAL tendency to TAKE OVER." Bonobo Jan 2013 #107
if that is what it takes libodem Jan 2013 #102
We should all just have a gender-neutral term to describe us TransitJohn Jan 2013 #35
and when talking all issues of equality i call it humanist. yours works. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #36
So you think feminism shouldn't even exist as a movement gollygee Jan 2013 #37
and when i am talking womens issues, i am a feminist. seabeyond Jan 2013 #38
Holy cow, way to put words in people's mouths. TransitJohn Jan 2013 #41
From the definition given yesterday, I think the answer is yes. MissMarple Jan 2013 #39
There's a difference between saying "I am a feminist" versus merely "I am not entirely awful." LeftyMom Jan 2013 #40
How I see the distinction: Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #42
"Society has conditioned men to think that they are naturally in charge" sibelian Jan 2013 #44
breathtaking, sweeping generalization datasuspect Jan 2013 #46
WHY IS IT that people who have been the victims of prejudice think they're immune from it themselves sibelian Jan 2013 #48
I perhaps should have clarified that to be American Society el_bryanto Jan 2013 #70
"When man display leadership qualities they are admired... sibelian Jan 2013 #94
The whole premise of the feminist movement seems to be lost seabeyond Jan 2013 #98
For the purpose you describe how do you define the term woman? aikoaiko Jan 2013 #51
Interesting question. Can a pre-op transsexual be a feminist? Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #54
Why do you assume people who disagree with you are obsessed? gollygee Jan 2013 #75
I know there has been huge heated debate about this in feminist circles gollygee Jan 2013 #73
You forgot foolish and self defeating. Kurska Jan 2013 #53
that is not what anyone is saying. and have repeatedly stated they have not said. as a matter of seabeyond Jan 2013 #57
No matter what you think you are saying, the messaging you are sending is just as important. Kurska Jan 2013 #59
do you need a title to support blacks? do you need a title to support gays? of course you do not. seabeyond Jan 2013 #60
It has nothing to do with a title, it has everything to do with not being made to feel welcome. Kurska Jan 2013 #62
O. kay. seabeyond Jan 2013 #64
I see that you're conceding the conversation, wonderful! I'll go elsewhere n/t Kurska Jan 2013 #65
Thank you. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #103
Two things gollygee Jan 2013 #76
I just don't see the need to segregate terms based on gender. Kurska Jan 2013 #78
I'm tired of it being about what will turn men on or off, honestly gollygee Jan 2013 #79
I'm gay, gay rights is my movement. Kurska Jan 2013 #81
I am straight and I hope I'm an ally in the gay rights movement gollygee Jan 2013 #83
In a movement based on equality, I feel like what should be important is your views Kurska Jan 2013 #84
I appreciate your input gollygee Jan 2013 #85
Thank you, I was glad to have the conversation. n/t Kurska Jan 2013 #86
"I'll support you only if you let me define your movement and the terms that are a part of it" sibelian Jan 2013 #97
No. gollygee Jan 2013 #99
From you. sibelian Jan 2013 #100
It's twisting my words gollygee Jan 2013 #101
To be honest, this is starting to turn me off to the label "feminist" LittleBlue Jan 2013 #80
+1 Kurska Jan 2013 #82
The issue is that gollygee Jan 2013 #88
The only people who are making it about issues other than women LittleBlue Jan 2013 #90
Who said I was offended? gollygee Jan 2013 #95
+1000. The divisiveness has turned me off too ..... and I'm a woman. polly7 Jan 2013 #104
Other issues aside, that's not enforceable. Imagine going around demanding that men not be feminist! patrice Jan 2013 #61
I think this whole discussion is a waste of time. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #66
Evidently many people disagree with you n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #67
Have fun. n/t Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #87
This: "But it may be equally likely that a man describing himself as feminist Zorra Jan 2013 #105
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