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SemperEadem

(8,053 posts)

202. you didn't have to click on it and read it...

Reply to 99Forever (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:53 PM

Jan 2013

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] seabeyond Jan 2013 OP

“Most men fear getting laughed at or humiliated by a romantic prospect while most women fear Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #1

i never thought to share with the men and boys in my life, our different perspectives. seabeyond Jan 2013 #3

+1 LiberalLoner Jan 2013 #76

Agree: Gavin de Becker's book is great. n/t Mimosa Jan 2013 #4

I wonder if nice guys have any idea how badly some men take rejection... because I've never bettyellen Jan 2013 #98

Same experience for sure gollygee Jan 2013 #255

EXCELLENT OP! and Link. Mimosa Jan 2013 #2

I think it was Susan Brownmiller who said, Brigid Jan 2013 #5

wow. that is a keeper. thank you. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #6

that was the quote, thanks. niyad Jan 2013 #8

Sorry, but I think that's a really stupid statement. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #10

it is really important i think seabeyond Jan 2013 #12

Well she shouldn't have said "ALL men" benefit from rape, in the quote. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #14

The quote is accurate. All men, as a class, benefit. nt redqueen Jan 2013 #24

All men benefit from rape........ Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #25

Yes, *as a class*. redqueen Jan 2013 #39

No... opiate69 Jan 2013 #229

+1. all men don't benefit from rape, & all whites don't benefit from racism. southern whites, HiPointDem Jan 2013 #241

Yes, as a class. LisaLynne Jan 2013 #42

I agree with you and I am caucasian as well. n/t whathehell Jan 2013 #155

why is it so easy for us white women to acknowledge and see the privilege and not feel seabeyond Jan 2013 #157

" Because we see it in male privilege is my guess, allowing us a two way view and also whathehell Jan 2013 #244

that was a surprise to me, but a lesson learned. you are right. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #246

Just like all women benefit from Hypergamy. Pretty little lies. NT galileoreloaded Jan 2013 #75

Exactly the way all caucasians benefit from institutionalized racism. TygrBright Jan 2013 #92

for example, a parent of a daughter indirectly benefits from real world dangers to girls BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #99

I would say that a little differently ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #124

exactly! it reinforces the gender roles.. and parents do find it useful- expecting daughters to be bettyellen Jan 2013 #142

thanks 1StrongBlackMan--I was having a lot of trouble articulating my thoughts there! BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #147

it's not that you want or personally enjoy the "benefit" yourself. but that society as it is now, bettyellen Jan 2013 #100

Look at the broader picture.... Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #118

It's very difficult, I think, for individual men thucythucy Jan 2013 #233

In the same way that you benefit from the murder of Iraqi children. Marr Jan 2013 #169

No. I thought it was only conservatives who preferred to remain in denial redqueen Jan 2013 #178

That war was about controlling oil. Marr Jan 2013 #222

Believing that requires supporting a rapist mindset. DirkGently Jan 2013 #207

Wow. nt redqueen Jan 2013 #210

wow is right or more... odd. i do not think i have ever heard it be argued that the oppressor seabeyond Jan 2013 #215

Do either of you have an actual reply? DirkGently Jan 2013 #219

yes, there are immediate rewards and the ultimate failure for us all. seabeyond Jan 2013 #223

So you're saying white people didn't benefit from apartheid? thucythucy Jan 2013 #234

it does benefit all men. and no, i do not mind my boys understanding this concept. i am proud that seabeyond Jan 2013 #26

All men benefitting from something doesn't mean all men want to benefit from it gollygee Jan 2013 #29

I never realized when I'm worrying about my daughter when she's out with her friends Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #30

It isn't the best place for denying the existence of privilege, that's correct gollygee Jan 2013 #31

you make me sad nye. i do not get why some men are struggling so hard to hold onto something seabeyond Jan 2013 #37

I am possibly the least racist person in the world. But I still benefit from racism. ieoeja Jan 2013 #53

There's the fallacy. I agree that rape puts women on an uneven footing. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #62

Maybe it would help to rephrase it. noamnety Jan 2013 #70

excellent. mroe good stuff. i like... lol. you are good. this isnt about them vs us. us vs them seabeyond Jan 2013 #79

very good. Insightful analysis. BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #101

Personal example... So_Blue Jan 2013 #110

Good post, but "it's assumed that men will take care of us," raccoon Jan 2013 #122

I've met men and women who hew to that assumption, but avoid them because I know it's unrealistic. bettyellen Jan 2013 #135

I might be overstating it noamnety Jan 2013 #140

Precisely. Oppression does not benefit the oppressor. DirkGently Jan 2013 #209

"Oppression stems from fear of the oppressed group." thucythucy Jan 2013 #237

Can you see that all white people benefit from white privelige? duhneece Jan 2013 #81

You don't think you'd benefit more from an equal society? DirkGently Jan 2013 #221

Yes, I believe I would benefit from a more just and equal society duhneece Jan 2013 #251

Might I suggest ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #132

Very well said. LisaLynne Jan 2013 #18

Exactly. nt redqueen Jan 2013 #28

+1 treestar Jan 2013 #44

+1,000,000 n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #134

That's not what the quote says, though. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #20

every man benefits from the control and domination regardless of how opposed they are to it. seabeyond Jan 2013 #34

You're contradicting yourself. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #50

have you looked at any issue as a whole (macro), seen how it effected you as an individual (micro) seabeyond Jan 2013 #52

Of course. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #63

read his reply. he is taking it that it means all men condone rape. have ownership of rape. seabeyond Jan 2013 #65

I did read his reply, and yours too. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #72

It is not about Nye (the micro) being PERSONALLY AT FAULT. MadrasT Jan 2013 #77

Exactly. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #83

I don't see them as being contradictory gollygee Jan 2013 #78

I think a more accurate interpretation ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #159

That's probably true. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #164

ha ha. i got sooo fed up with guys asking to put their feelings first that over the course of 2-3 bettyellen Jan 2013 #205

Obama benefits the same way all men do. Women are put on unequal footing. bettyellen Jan 2013 #104

True, I wasn't discussing the OP. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #109

I think it's a mistake women are making trying to assuage Mr Nye because they feel he bears no guilt bettyellen Jan 2013 #114

or the poster clearly understands what was being said but has a personal beef and is using seabeyond Jan 2013 #117

and that happens too frequently here too.... wanted to share an interesting blog with you bettyellen Jan 2013 #125

thanks. it looks really interesting. LOVE all the insight. seabeyond Jan 2013 #128

I think you'll love CaptA's voice as I do, some cool memes in there. Great comments too. bettyellen Jan 2013 #131

i fall in love easily... just sayin'. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #138

there's some great advice in there, and she moderates enough to remove the vast majority bettyellen Jan 2013 #139

that was an amazingly good read! thanks! bench scientist Jan 2013 #212

glad you liked it! some amazing voices there.... I give her credit for moderating well. bettyellen Jan 2013 #213

well thanks for the find bench scientist Jan 2013 #239

Ohhhh ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #121

lol seabeyond Jan 2013 #123

I'm just as confused. Earth_First Jan 2013 #15

Yep- an OP that we can all unite around, then a few posts later we get "all men benefit from rape". Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #22

Could I posit that it might be an issue of semantics? kag Jan 2013 #91

is there some sort of limit on how much discussion can be had of such an important topic? niyad Jan 2013 #23

I don't get this "i'm personally offended and want to limit discussion" attitude. bettyellen Jan 2013 #111

always makes me wonder what kind of nerve has been struck. niyad Jan 2013 #218

i feel like it hits a little close to home. to hard to consider what it would be like w/out the bettyellen Jan 2013 #220

Just because our benefits are subtle doesn't mean they don't exist jeff47 Jan 2013 #46

And this is why the word "feminism" is a toxic label that most women run from LittleBlue Jan 2013 #148

"They can't really explain how rape benefits all men". except there are a number of examples and seabeyond Jan 2013 #151

You mean like the rental person LittleBlue Jan 2013 #153

it might be helpful to read the book before you dismiss her statement. niyad Jan 2013 #19

It doesn't apply the way you are thinking treestar Jan 2013 #33

OK, so I benefit from rape because its existence gives me more control over my daughters. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #38

You're taking it personally treestar Jan 2013 #47

You're not aware that a lot of families like controlling their daughters? Seriously? bettyellen Jan 2013 #115

It was poor wording, but accurate. Dash87 Jan 2013 #67

Good one ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #136

Thank you! Very well said! smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #214

Well, call me thick, but can you explain to me how polly7 Jan 2013 #64

post 56 is very clear on an example. and there are others in this thread that give a clear example. seabeyond Jan 2013 #66

No, it's not. polly7 Jan 2013 #68

your interpretation of what the OP is saying is incorrect. i gave you an example seabeyond Jan 2013 #80

Yeah, I reject it it as complete bull*. polly7 Jan 2013 #87

ah... there is my insightful and kind polly. seabeyond Jan 2013 #88

What are you yammering about? polly7 Jan 2013 #89

You Mad, Sis? Tsiyu Jan 2013 #257

Not in any way, Sis. You mad? nt. polly7 Jan 2013 #258

Nah, I don't shake my fist at the truth Tsiyu Jan 2013 #260

Well I don't believe that the quote that all men polly7 Jan 2013 #261

If I compare myself to children of my generation Tsiyu Jan 2013 #263

I understand what benefits mean, and don't agree that rape of women polly7 Jan 2013 #264

lol Tsiyu Jan 2013 #266

Nor you me. polly7 Jan 2013 #267

Oy Tsiyu Jan 2013 #268

Yeah I know .... it's about as oy as polly7 Jan 2013 #272

Assigning blame and observing benefit are two wholly and separate concepts. LanternWaste Jan 2013 #126

Do I, as an adult benefit from the scourge of child abuse? polly7 Jan 2013 #143

Post 56 mentions how one small group of men within another small group of people EOTE Jan 2013 #84

Wow. I didn't mean to start a war here. Brigid Jan 2013 #74

I find it intriguing... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #94

you've missed quite a few posts from dudes acknowledging this I guess. bettyellen Jan 2013 #137

Been there. Done that. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #180

Squashed like a bug, eh? I can see why you'd not want to risk that again. bettyellen Jan 2013 #182

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #189

is that a fight club reference, or are you just scared of taking on a man? bettyellen Jan 2013 #191

Do you consider men's words more intimidating somehow? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #199

no, but I've noticed a lot of men do, LOL. something of a phenomena! and we agree on this: bettyellen Jan 2013 #201

Educate me. (Never mind. Found it in Reply #67) Iggo Jan 2013 #273

k and r--thank you for this excellent post. susan brownmiller said it pretty clearly in her book niyad Jan 2013 #7

brigid, above, quoted her. i had never heard this. very insightful seabeyond Jan 2013 #11

"against our will: men, women and rape" by susan brownmiller. niyad Jan 2013 #16

precisely... SemperEadem Jan 2013 #69

OMFG! HOW is that story not a NATIONAL OUTRAGE? (rhetorical, it is due to rape culture of course) redqueen Jan 2013 #107

because 82 year old women are not sexy enough for the news. fucking sad. bettyellen Jan 2013 #133

Holy crap! gollygee Jan 2013 #149

So spot on! werknotgoin2takeit Jan 2013 #224

Thank you for that. I am so tired of having to live the life you have described so eloquently. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #274

Another thoughtful post! LisaLynne Jan 2013 #9

Rape is not about sex, it is about power and control. This needs to be understood in order for any teewrex Jan 2013 #13

Trash time. 99Forever Jan 2013 #17

I'm sorry you feel this way because .. LisaLynne Jan 2013 #21

I'm sorry you.. 99Forever Jan 2013 #35

Fine trash it. LisaLynne Jan 2013 #36

Thanks for your permission. 99Forever Jan 2013 #49

I missed the man bashing. Can you point it out for me? Because I just don't see it. n/t ieoeja Jan 2013 #58

Nope... 99Forever Jan 2013 #59

you didn't have to click on it and read it... SemperEadem Jan 2013 #202

Privilege in action- assuming we give a fuck about what threads you trash, LOL. bettyellen Jan 2013 #154

Arrogance in action. 99Forever Jan 2013 #193

Arrogance is coming in to piss on a conversation and add nothing. Look in the mirror dude. bettyellen Jan 2013 #194

someone's feeling diminished and argumentative SemperEadem Jan 2013 #203

Uh huh... 99Forever Jan 2013 #204

K&R MadrasT Jan 2013 #27

I don't think the OP made the case it set out to make: that ALL MEN benefit from rape. How? nt Romulox Jan 2013 #32

By keeping the unearned priveledge assigned to males. LisaLynne Jan 2013 #40

I follow the general concept, but I think you need to make the specific connection. Romulox Jan 2013 #41

The OP's premise is that having a culture where women can be made to fear being raped ... LisaLynne Jan 2013 #43

That's the part I think is hard to follow. Specifically, I don't think the case has been made. nt Romulox Jan 2013 #45

What's hard to follow about it? jeff47 Jan 2013 #51

you are doing a very good job explaining it. thank you. i was asked seabeyond Jan 2013 #54

The parking lot thing affected my education. noamnety Jan 2013 #61

Thank you jeff47 for being so articulate.... prairierose Jan 2013 #71

To expand on that thought werknotgoin2takeit Jan 2013 #86

+1000 and Welcome to DU! smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #216

You get it. Thanks for that. Hekate Jan 2013 #93

I see that too. werknotgoin2takeit Jan 2013 #225

The argument in the OP is that I, personally, passively benefit from "rape culture". Romulox Jan 2013 #95

the recurring mistake is thinking it's always either/ or... the dangerous person in the parking lot bettyellen Jan 2013 #144

The point is the actual benefits can be subtle, so they're easy to miss. jeff47 Jan 2013 #146

another subtle benefit- you are not going to get any nasty condescending attitude , labeled bettyellen Jan 2013 #156

trying to pull it up without going back to the thread... DAMAGED personalities. seabeyond Jan 2013 #158

you're not going to see all this condescending snark aimed at W Pitt... just like there is so little bettyellen Jan 2013 #168

you got that right. and yes... seabeyond Jan 2013 #172

Thanks! lunatica Jan 2013 #105

read the responses here again. all the answers you claim to seek are here. bettyellen Jan 2013 #119

I can think of examples from my life. noamnety Jan 2013 #56

very clear, precise example. thank you for sharing this. and thank you for adding the ironic. seabeyond Jan 2013 #57

You gave the example of combat being an "opportunity" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #96

I think you missed my point. noamnety Jan 2013 #102

she clearly stated it left her at a professional disadvantage. how dare you negate everything she bettyellen Jan 2013 #106

It is difficult to defend the idea that being sent to a combat zone is a professional advantage. nt lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #188

not really, she stated it quite succinctly. lots of women would LOVE to serve, your feelings bettyellen Jan 2013 #190

thank you SemperEadem Jan 2013 #198

wow this resonates with me...as a woman, and a black person noiretextatique Jan 2013 #206

Don't get me wrong. I support equality, therefore I support women in combat. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #208

i don't understand why anyone would want to go to combat, but people do, god help them. bettyellen Jan 2013 #211

Our military is a cesspool of racism, sexism, rape, hatred. Romulox Jan 2013 #97

Women going out more well may increase the risk of rape or any other crime treestar Jan 2013 #48

K&R Z_I_Peevey Jan 2013 #55

But first we have to see it as it truly exists. seabeyond Jan 2013 #60

Excellent post. redqueen Jan 2013 #112

Excellent ColumbusLib Jan 2013 #73

K&R MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #82

Reading this and the discussion,,,I'm stunned Mockingjay Jan 2013 #85

you... are a glorious human being shining in your own light seabeyond Jan 2013 #90

Thanks Mockingjay Jan 2013 #192

That fear you feel is felt by all women to some degree lunatica Jan 2013 #113

yes, but not all women Mockingjay Jan 2013 #195

same here SemperEadem Jan 2013 #200

It's definitely changeable. jeff47 Jan 2013 #184

Good food for thought Politicub Jan 2013 #103

I've been thinking about how the Female Experience is SO alien to Males: BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #108

Tom Ashbrook (On Point) did an hour on this yesterday on NPR So_Blue Jan 2013 #116

i do appreciate their voice in india. seabeyond Jan 2013 #120

As usual, the MRA people just don't get it. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #127

MRA members ARE the rapists Dash87 Jan 2013 #141

K & R historylovr Jan 2013 #129

Thank you Sea ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #130

Believe it or not there are women (like me) who never think about rape. Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #145

you were raped and choose not to think or talk about it? do you think this is a good thing? bettyellen Jan 2013 #160

My point is that what the "patriarchy" gets out of this as a benefit Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #173

I disagree because, it's only working collectively that will end the benefits of patriarchy... bettyellen Jan 2013 #176

I think that the concept of patriarchy is out of date Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #179

what does the very exceptional case of a super wealthy woman have to do with the majority? Nothing. bettyellen Jan 2013 #181

i wonder how we ignore the issue in india with a shrug... blaming and confining women to avoid rape seabeyond Jan 2013 #183

You have no entitlement to expect interest where you think it should be. Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #185

we have a world of people that shrug away injustices. i get that. i dont accept it though. i will seabeyond Jan 2013 #187

you can't put old hands on young shoulders. and with this narrow world view, I'd say that's what we bettyellen Jan 2013 #197

If you are blind to the RL demographics about poverty, it's on you. IF that's truly your thing. bettyellen Jan 2013 #196

Some can't imagine reality being different from what they are willing to accept Major Nikon Jan 2013 #231

i understand the tough girl attitude to a large extent, they don't "need" feminism, it does't serve bettyellen Jan 2013 #186

It might be, but the systems that maintain it are still in place -- courts, police, ALEC, etc. ancianita Jan 2013 #254

We must not be living on the same planet. nt raccoon Jan 2013 #162

I don't know, even though I fought off a biker rapist at 15, I didn't think about it for another 15 bettyellen Jan 2013 #171

It's not necessarily overt ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #170

thank you for saying this EXACTLY this way. seabeyond Jan 2013 #175

it is part of the it "can't happen to me syndrome" - a refusal to identify with someone who was bettyellen Jan 2013 #227

Great post, thank you, sea. Lately I have been exploring Zorra Jan 2013 #150

i was going to say... how totally fascinating. and you already did, lol. seabeyond Jan 2013 #152

I have a somewhat contrary point of view, all men are damaged by rape as well. Uncle Joe Jan 2013 #161

and then... you have this. the next step. i LOVE it. thanks. and so very in your face, true. seabeyond Jan 2013 #165

I also think that the early sexualization of girls is part of this too. werknotgoin2takeit Jan 2013 #230

boys are can do. girls are... arent you pretty. seabeyond Jan 2013 #232

From a completely global perspective ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #166

Excellent points. redqueen Jan 2013 #174

Gotta run but have to take a minute to kick this! Thanks seabeyond! nt riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #163

kr Solly Mack Jan 2013 #167

Excellent OP, and interesting comments. s-cubed Jan 2013 #177

ok, guys, I get why you fear me. I am a woman, and I can see right through you. toby jo Jan 2013 #217

Great Article Larrymoe Curlyshemp Jan 2013 #226

Here's where this theory falls apart Major Nikon Jan 2013 #228

As always, Seabeyond, a fantastic thucythucy Jan 2013 #235

"Rapists are the shock troops of the patriarchy." seabeyond Jan 2013 #242

A discussion on Viewpoint on Current, Z_I_Peevey Jan 2013 #236

thank you so much for this info. wish i could watch it. seabeyond Jan 2013 #243

Citing the Steubenville case. caseymoz Jan 2013 #238

/popcorn cecilfirefox Jan 2013 #240

What an odd response. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2013 #250

Hey Seabee. whathehell Jan 2013 #245

ah, what the hell.... seabeyond Jan 2013 #247

Great shot, Seab! whathehell Jan 2013 #249

k&r Little Star Jan 2013 #248

FINALLY. SOMEONE brings up the complicity of men who won't rape but want to maintain power. ancianita Jan 2013 #252

not to mention the entertainment of rape in our media. seabeyond Jan 2013 #253

No they don't loose wheel Jan 2013 #256

I am poor in America Tsiyu Jan 2013 #259

How likely is a gang rape? loose wheel Jan 2013 #262

How likely is it that a woman will become president? Tsiyu Jan 2013 #265

if a man stays out of prison, chance of rape is significantly reduced. seabeyond Jan 2013 #269

I think that was a child abuse figure Tsiyu Jan 2013 #270

As history continues... loose wheel Jan 2013 #271