Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

General Discussion

In reply to the discussion: The Big Dog's Big Lie [View all]
The Big Dog's Big Lie [View all] kentuck Dec 2012 OP
Not completely NAFTA's fault Tempest Dec 2012 #1
yeah, NAFTA kicked in the teeth datasuspect Dec 2012 #6
You mean tooth, right? Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #57
baloney. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #139
Truth. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #166
Another viewpoint: kentuck Dec 2012 #170
Do you even read what you cite? grantcart Dec 2012 #184
"Nothing to do with NAFTA at all." ???? kentuck Dec 2012 #185
lol because the source you cite discusses US-China trade and NAFTA grantcart Dec 2012 #191
Thank you Grantcart. donheld Dec 2012 #210
Thanks for the facts and insight, grantcart Hekate Dec 2012 #239
production went up in terms of dollar value & flat in terms of total output. only jobs went down. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #219
You really proved my point. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #237
That 'manufacturing was on its way out' before nafta? no, it wasn't on its way out. That was HiPointDem Dec 2012 #238
Yes it was... Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #240
Manufacturing jobs were declining, basically because of productivity increases. And the US HiPointDem Dec 2012 #242
It was accelerating far before NAFTA. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #249
No. We should have tariffs on imports. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #231
Keeping in mind, most of that decline was jobs lost due to automation bhikkhu Dec 2012 #21
Another point that is frequently overlooked MichaelSoE Dec 2012 #129
Manufacturing of what? JDPriestly Dec 2012 #235
Nixon started it with Clean Water, Clear Air, Osha & EPA. _Liann_ Dec 2012 #130
the hippie environmentalism? don't you want that other forum? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #136
Don't be skeered, HiPoint. kurtzapril4 Dec 2012 #151
Air you could barely breath. Fish dying in poluted water. dmr Dec 2012 #155
Good way to out yourself MessiahRp Dec 2012 #216
Nixon signed environmental legislation because he was a smart politician, yet a dreadful person Kennah Dec 2012 #233
I know you're too young, but look for pictures of Cleveland before the EPA. Tempest Dec 2012 #259
looking at iron & steel production, it was already declining in the carter years. all-time high HiPointDem Dec 2012 #135
It was initially damaged by going to Cold War footing under, sorry to say, Truman. nt patrice Dec 2012 #176
It was during the Reagan administration that Congress discussed loosening trading precautions. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #230
Right, let's have an honest discussion Cosmocat Dec 2012 #253
Signed repeal of Glass-Steagall, enabling taxpayer-backed Wall Street Casino Octafish Dec 2012 #2
and dissed most things LIBERAL malaise Dec 2012 #7
Some of us haven't forgotten. truebluegreen Dec 2012 #8
Democrats do for corporate America nineteen50 Dec 2012 #62
Then what is YOUR definition of an actual Democrat? George II Dec 2012 #75
You want his "definition of an actual Democrat"? At a minimum, it might be a person who is an AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #103
Is that a shot at me? George II Dec 2012 #177
A very poor one, but yes, a shot nonetheless. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #254
Thank you very much. I addressed this in response to his second backhanded slap at me..... George II Dec 2012 #257
A REAL Democrat truebluegreen Dec 2012 #255
Politics Octafish Dec 2012 #44
So true malaise Dec 2012 #133
signed a big tax cut for the rich in his 2nd term too hfojvt Dec 2012 #16
Plutocracy works great for the Plutocrats Octafish Dec 2012 #53
I don't think you mean "rightfully"? xtraxritical Dec 2012 #69
'Rightfully,' as by design of the perpetrators. Octafish Dec 2012 #94
+1 Hissyspit Dec 2012 #232
Didn't he sign the REPEAL Of Glass/Steagall? nt LaydeeBug Dec 2012 #23
He not only signed it; he demanded it be on his desk ASAP. merrily Dec 2012 #37
ah, that's Mr. Andrea Mitchell isn't it? yuk. n/t Whisp Dec 2012 #147
Thank you, LaydeeBug! Yes, that is what he did - signed the repeal of G-S. Octafish Dec 2012 #41
Glass-Steagall and the CFMA Mnpaul Dec 2012 #196
Like a Havana Casino, wink wink. Octafish Dec 2012 #267
Yes. along with NAFTA... He was never a Good Democrat, IMO ---Strictly Third Way. whathehell Dec 2012 #126
That's what I'm angriest about. nt valerief Dec 2012 #160
OK, so what do you want to do about it? shintao Dec 2012 #3
We're already socialized. intheflow Dec 2012 #14
Not suggesting that socialism will isolate us shintao Dec 2012 #25
FDR didn't do too badly by the 98%. merrily Dec 2012 #39
If you don't count Blacks, who were initially excluded from Social Security BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #97
"Did you ever ask yourself why Blacks registered as Republicans ..." It might have something to AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #132
Making excuses BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #169
the republican talking points are strong here. but they're wrong. funny how people with 'one drop' HiPointDem Dec 2012 #213
And the Apologists are hard at work to excuse away inconvenient but salient points BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #229
A professor says MLK "may have" had to register R in Alabama to vote "proves" MLK was an R? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #234
Which proves that IF MLK wanted to vote HE HAD TO BE REGISTERED AS A REPUBLICAN. BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #244
the fact that some professor says he "may have had to" register as a republican in alabama HiPointDem Dec 2012 #246
Yeah, why read what the professor wrote in context when you can BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #262
you're the one ignoring the context. and you're getting boring. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #266
'asian-americans' weren't put into internment camps, japanese-americans were. and not all japanese HiPointDem Dec 2012 #142
by 1940, blacks were already solidly democrat. because of fdr's policies. you need to read up. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #144
No, YOU need to read up BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #172
Majority of Black people have voted Democrat since 1936. limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #199
Black Democratic Presidential vote 1932 = 23%. Thereafter always above 60%, pub never over 40%. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #212
FDR was ranked by historians in 2009 as "Third Greatest" president in American history, preceded. whathehell Dec 2012 #128
I kid you not, but the new Dem Leadership meme is truedelphi Dec 2012 #207
OMG....Do you have a link for this? whathehell Dec 2012 #256
i believe the auto companies & banks are already nationalized. & they'e not the only ones who've HiPointDem Dec 2012 #146
Not Nationalized Enough shintao Dec 2012 #194
But he sure do talk purdy and look great up on that podium Fumesucker Dec 2012 #4
Textiles started being outsourced way before NAFTA obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #5
Did that start happening... Oilwellian Dec 2012 #11
Thanks. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #58
I am really tired of the Hillary-Wal-Mart canard obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #106
Why? R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #109
what's the canard? 6 years on that board. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #153
started in 1986, it looks like -- through '92. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #148
True, and they didn't go to Mexico as the naysayers thought..they went OUTSIDE N. America! George II Dec 2012 #78
No "naysayers" said that manufacturing jobs would only go to Mexico. They said it was a start. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #134
NAFTA does not apply to China, Indonesia, Taiwan, Bangla Desh, etc. George II Dec 2012 #198
Excuse me, but so what? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #200
NAFTA turned out to be only the first step... kentuck Dec 2012 #202
Whining about jobs going anywhere but Mexico and Canada and blaming NAFTA is crazy... George II Dec 2012 #203
I see you have the cojones to make wild-ass comments about people, but....... George II Dec 2012 #274
I don't have to use such language. Nor am I required to respond to anyone who uses such language. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #275
I will.... George II Dec 2012 #277
they didn't? you're sure about that? because some auto manufacturing jobs sure went there. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #149
Yes, lets be honest with ourselves NNN0LHI Dec 2012 #9
If we are going to be "honest," people were concerned about job losses before NAFTA. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #105
i seem to recall big concerns about imported cars. to the extent of japanese kids being killed HiPointDem Dec 2012 #157
I guess no one is going to mention Bush Sr.? shintao Dec 2012 #10
as someone who grew up in north east Ohio I can attest dsc Dec 2012 #12
What the fuck trumad Dec 2012 #13
You are not kidding! intheflow Dec 2012 #15
Have a hard time with the truth? kentuck Dec 2012 #17
At the risk of having ANOTHER post hidden by the DU jury.... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #19
The DLC was, is, and always will be.... kentuck Dec 2012 #20
Again, the parallels to comments like this from the right are striking. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #51
As I recall, the left opposed Clinton's signing of NAFTA bill? kentuck Dec 2012 #63
link? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #158
Here's a sampling of the time. kentuck Dec 2012 #159
i misread your post as 'supported' for some reason. never mind. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #164
Can you post some of those Right Wing talking points that attack the sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #90
Deciding that DLC types are too far to the right sounds nothing like the RW echo chamber. merrily Dec 2012 #31
The criticisms are identical, the motivations are identical. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #54
The motivations are not the same. intheflow Dec 2012 #124
Exactly. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #138
You don't want to have "ANOTHER post hidden by the DU jury"? Maybe it would help if you AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #137
Paul Krugman supported NAFTA at the time, seeing it mostly as a Foreign Policy move. KittyWampus Dec 2012 #49
OK--then why don't you list all the bad things Dems have done throughout the years? trumad Dec 2012 #82
Is that true? Where's your list? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #140
Bring on the trolls sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #36
There it is. The best we ever get is lesser of evils. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #59
Clinton has never apologized for the Glass-Steagall repeal or for welfare reform duffyduff Dec 2012 #101
Explaining to do? shintao Dec 2012 #211
"We understand we have to tolerate some amount of that third way bullshit..." R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #111
To quote Clinton, "I feel your pain" BlueStreak Dec 2012 #123
With Bill Clinton, though, it wasn't the "lesser of two evils" duffyduff Dec 2012 #162
x2 AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #61
Well, you could always rebut the OP with more than 3 lines. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #84
Look--- are Dems perfect? Fuck no... trumad Dec 2012 #87
So your answer is no. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #96
Oh fucking horseshit... trumad Dec 2012 #100
Perhaps you want to reread what I wrote. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #107
"it turned out that way" Union Scribe Dec 2012 #225
Well said. But the most that you're going to get may be a contemptuous reply with obscenities, AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #108
Perhaps, but I tried to move along the dialog R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #114
Sometimes that's all we can do. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #116
Apparently so -- and wtf for? Hekate Dec 2012 #241
Wasn't NAFTA Al Gore's baby? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #18
Bill Clinton signed a bill... kentuck Dec 2012 #22
it's also a fact that gore, the other democratic contender, also supported it. so if you were HiPointDem Dec 2012 #167
Regardless of who defended what, Clinton was President, not Gore. merrily Dec 2012 #29
So... is this a "buck stops here" thing or simply anti-Bill Clinton? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #47
We'll have to demonize Paul Krugman too, because he supported NAFTA. KittyWampus Dec 2012 #50
Seriously. We no longer seem to be entitled to differences in opinion. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #55
"differences in opinion" are not the same as "differences in policies". kentuck Dec 2012 #66
You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. And boiling an issue down to stupid level KittyWampus Dec 2012 #71
What the hell are you talking about?? kentuck Dec 2012 #76
Oh, please. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #122
Why? How does that make any sense at all? TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #192
You do not believe that. Why the charade? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #218
I most certainly believe that even in the same party one can be right the other wrong TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #279
That's not what I said. More games. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #280
ROFL at "extreme left." And was Welfare Deform also OK because he was a D? bread_and_roses Dec 2012 #83
My point exactly -- criticizing Clinton (and Obama) for every move they make... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #120
The hard left brought you woman's suffrage, unions, decent wages and a 5 day work week. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #131
and the KKK. Give me a break! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #217
No, I won't. Be sure to ignore everything that the left has done for you. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #220
Quit with the dramatics. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #222
"Where would DU be without manufactured outrage?" R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #223
Great argument. You win. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #224
There's the dramatics again on your part. R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #228
"hard left?" what "hard left?" bread_and_roses Dec 2012 #150
If you are so righteous that you disparage the left, tell us if you dare, what issues rhett o rick Dec 2012 #197
It's a good deal, Larry... Marblehead Dec 2012 #30
Exactly. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #45
Gore, as Senate President, also broke the tie that truedelphi Dec 2012 #208
Sorry, nope. iamthebandfanman Dec 2012 #268
Thanks! We certainly needed one more DUer complaining about Clinton. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #276
This is exactly what I have Dalai_1 Dec 2012 #24
But another important aspect of this discussion, in my opinion... kentuck Dec 2012 #26
Reportedly, Obama has referred to himself both as a blue dog and as a New Democrat. merrily Dec 2012 #35
Repeal of Glass Steagall, too. merrily Dec 2012 #27
Didn't jobs start leaving the country in the 80s? I am against NAFTA and GATT because they do not jwirr Dec 2012 #28
Do you remember the jobs that were just across the border in Mexico?? kentuck Dec 2012 #32
Yes I do remember them - lots of pollution killing kids just across the border. Disgraceful. jwirr Dec 2012 #42
It started on a smaller scale with Nixon after he signed the DISCs legislation and went to China. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #68
WTF? tjwash Dec 2012 #33
I may be wrong but... kentuck Dec 2012 #38
NAFTA was ceremonially signed in '92. Then was ratified by Congress, and went into force in '94. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #56
I remember this vote very well... kentuck Dec 2012 #60
My parents were pretty angry about it, being Union Democrats. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #67
NAFTA: December 17, 1992 George II Dec 2012 #85
Both Bush and Clinton signed NAFTA... PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #52
and clinton's congress passed it, and clinton signed it. truly a bipartisan affair. as are all the HiPointDem Dec 2012 #161
So what? He wasn't obligated to sign Poppy's bill into law TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #181
Would've happened with or without NAFTA. nt Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #34
If true, why did they go to all the trouble to approve and sign NAFTA? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #70
answered in 184 above grantcart Dec 2012 #186
Clinton also signed the bill to repeal fredamae Dec 2012 #40
It is a widely repeated myth that Bill Clinton is responsible for NAFTA pandr32 Dec 2012 #43
But it had to be ratified by Congress before signed into law. kentuck Dec 2012 #46
Absolutely right. Incidentally, the Repubs took over Congress in 1994 (after 50 years of Democratic AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #88
NAFTA was signed into law by BILL CLINTON. Deal with reality, please! Romulox Dec 2012 #48
Exactly. If he had been a "Bold Dem" fredamae Dec 2012 #65
Could that be because he signed it and he bragged about it? BlueStreak Dec 2012 #64
41 Did the deal and lost the election. There is no out for Clinton. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #168
Oh phooey... Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #72
Your discussion about Sam Walton's stores in 1962 and 1969 is irrelevant because his policy at that AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #110
And how long did that last? Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #118
until he got exposed for buying foreign ones. 1992. was when they stopped using the slogan. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #171
Not NAFTA Mojo2 Dec 2012 #73
LIE??????? George II Dec 2012 #74
Big Lie. kentuck Dec 2012 #77
It was his OPINION on the issue - I don't call people "liars" if their opinions don't pan out. George II Dec 2012 #258
I don't understand the point of this thread. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #79
Yea Clinton got the Dems to the "we can be leaders too" finish line but...... nolabels Dec 2012 #99
The inevitable was only the inevitable because they bought into your false narrative... Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #102
The idea is Clinton did a management job and was not showing leadership nolabels Dec 2012 #117
He wasn't perfect... Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #165
... HiPointDem Dec 2012 #163
+1 toby jo Dec 2012 #174
It's relevant because we again have a Dem Union Scribe Dec 2012 #226
Not really. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #236
Solid rebuttal! Union Scribe Dec 2012 #245
That's what happens when the premise is weak. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #248
No, it's what happens when someone has no reply Union Scribe Dec 2012 #250
I remember manufacturing leaving this country long before Clinton... Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #80
Nixon started the process in the early '70's by signing the DISC legislation and going to the AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #93
It started leaving in the 50s... Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #175
GATT was signed in 1947 and lasted until 1994 GeorgeGist Dec 2012 #81
Bill Clinton flew back to Arkansas in the middle of the 1992 New Hampshire primary coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #86
If a Supreme Being(s) existed and came to Earth and devised a perfect 1monster Dec 2012 #89
NAFTA SamKnause Dec 2012 #91
"Dots Connected" n/t fredamae Dec 2012 #92
Here is a neat quote to consider: truedelphi Dec 2012 #209
Don't forget Al Gore's big lie that he is an environmentalist No Compromise Dec 2012 #95
Well said. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #112
Clinton and Gore had only environmental issues in Mexico left to them... IthinkThereforeIAM Dec 2012 #98
i don't think there was any realistic choice but to accept NAFTA samsingh Dec 2012 #104
For successful politicians lying is an art not a moral/ethical question. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #113
I think this is "anti-vaccine logic" at work gulliver Dec 2012 #115
Ah the GOP Contract with America days,,, benld74 Dec 2012 #119
I know this one Fla_Democrat Dec 2012 #121
He and the rest of the party's leadership also worked with republicans to make Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #125
I beg to differ Rider3 Dec 2012 #127
Nixon was the one. Nixon signed the DISC legislation. Nixon went to the Far East, including China, AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #141
can you link me to something about disc? i can't find anything. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #173
Sure: AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #183
thanks. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #214
You're not alone in thinking that NAFTA was a mistake. DeSwiss Dec 2012 #143
Here's The Truth, and Most of You Won't Like It Yavin4 Dec 2012 #145
Did you mean to post this on 12/26/2016? ecstatic Dec 2012 #152
Timing aside, shady laws wouldn't be possible without the help of Americans ecstatic Dec 2012 #154
Clinton also signed the Telecommunications Act of 1996... wanttosavetheplanet Dec 2012 #156
He also cut more 'welfare' than Reagan leftstreet Dec 2012 #195
Right on, kentuck. Word to the wise, Hilary me not!, you all. nt patrice Dec 2012 #178
"There Is No Santa Claus and Bill Clinton Was Not an Economic Savior" malz Dec 2012 #179
It really is kind of amazing... wyldwolf Dec 2012 #180
Yeah, you all gotta hang together or... kentuck Dec 2012 #182
What's amazing is the free trade apologists Union Scribe Dec 2012 #227
i see threads like this as just looking to get a certain type to come in JI7 Dec 2012 #187
and it's the same people over and over with the same posts - worded slightly different each time wyldwolf Dec 2012 #193
Ironic. You're replying to one of those posts. nt Union Scribe Dec 2012 #252
blah, blah, blah heaven05 Dec 2012 #188
This is a disgusting thread and I'm trashing it. Zoeisright Dec 2012 #189
Inequality JReed Dec 2012 #190
It wasn't just NAFTA, it was DLC neo-Con ideology. EVERYTHING they did was for Corporate Profits, harun Dec 2012 #201
NAFTA gave the framework for what happened, but it could have worked,the idea was to export low.... marble falls Dec 2012 #204
Nafta is a republican idea.. iamthebandfanman Dec 2012 #205
it's a ruling class idea, brought into law through bipartisanship. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #215
. blkmusclmachine Dec 2012 #206
It was about this time in 2008 that I was becoming disgusted at DU for threads like this. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #221
Agreed, Buzz Clik Hekate Dec 2012 #243
Why now. Union Scribe Dec 2012 #251
There you have it: the problem isn't NAFTA, "free trade", or even unemployment. It's the LEFT! Romulox Dec 2012 #260
Did I say that? No. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #263
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #247
True. Some people are too young to remember that. And some don't realize it, Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #261
Exactly like Robert Reich, who ALSO helped sell NAFTA, and closeupready Dec 2012 #269
No one is perfect... kentuck Dec 2012 #271
I don't recall why, but I always thought it was in part closeupready Dec 2012 #272
I had forgotten Reich was, what, Sec of Labor? Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #273
One thing about getting older...I didn't realize people could just *pretend* the past away... Romulox Dec 2012 #278
Anyone who doesn't support free trade agreements should be slamming Obama just as much as Clinton. Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #264
Clinton was carrying the torch JReed Dec 2012 #265
Why? kentuck Dec 2012 #270
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Big Dog's Big Lie»Reply #48