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Response to white_wolf (Reply #44)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:26 AM

45. In spite of DOI(1776) and PA(1776) & VT(1777) declaring that rights exist, you continue to

 

believe "rights did not pre-exist the Constitution" ratified by the states later.
Constitution ratification dates
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Delaware; December 7, 1787
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Pennsylvania; December 12, 1787
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New Jersey; December 18, 1787
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Georgia; January 2, 1788
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Connecticut; January 8, 1788
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Massachusetts; February 6, 1788
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Maryland; April 28, 1788.
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of South Carolina; May 23, 1788.
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New Hampshire; June 21, 1788
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Virginia; June 26, 1788.
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New York; July 26, 1788
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of North Carolina; November 21, 1789
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Rhode Island; May 29, 1790.

You also want to talk about God as the source of "rights" but I've never said that.

I've posted several times that PA & VT's declaration of rights was simply a way of people in their sovereign capacity reserving unto themselves certain things that were off-limits to the government they were creating.

Rights of the individual protect each person against the tyranny of a simple majority in a pure democracy, a danger recognized by most of the founding fathers.

On a related vein, see:
Natural, inherent, inalienable rights versus privileges granted by Government
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x161892

Parsing Pennsylvania and Vermont constitutions, 1776 and 1777
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x152320

More recently in DC v Heller (2008) SCOTUS acknowledged rights that PA & VT declared were "natural, inherent, inalienable/unalienable" as preexisting our Constitution. The court also grouped rights enumerated in the First, Second, and Fourth Amendments together, i.e. they survive or die together.


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