General Discussion

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

103. You can never offer what you won't really offer.

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:29 PM

Dec 2012

IF you are an honest negotiator.

No matter how complex the negotiation.

When you make an offer it's one you're willing to do, even if it's an offer you don't think is the endpoint of the negotiation.

Consequently this _does_ reveal where the Administration is in its thinking as they move the levers behind the big green curtain.

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So, no actual deal. No final decisions. No bills signed. Yet Obama bashing. SHAMEFUL ! [View all] RBInMaine Dec 2012 OP

... Fumesucker Dec 2012 #1

Wow! Rec. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #101

maybe you missed the three previous episodes rurallib Dec 2012 #2

Maybe it's the gratuitous hyperbole Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #44

And don't forget ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #58

Classic. Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #73

It's the Republican policies -- like the ongoing attacks on the 4th Amendment -- that are villager Dec 2012 #76

Then object! Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #90

Huh? I do object. People here seem to have issues when other folks object to these GOP policies. villager Dec 2012 #91

Outstanding! Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #100

I call TOTAL BS on the OP. What good is objection if it's made after the fact? leveymg Dec 2012 #93

"republican in Democrat's clothing" bvar22 Dec 2012 #119

this OP is already telling is that horrible is once again gonna be the best there is hfojvt Dec 2012 #96

The white house leaked the information. Presumably they didn't mind if people discussed the HiPointDem Dec 2012 #3

maybe Obama needs us to cry holy hell eShirl Dec 2012 #4

Exactly. which is why the line "shut up while he's negotiating" seems frankly bizarre. Make the HiPointDem Dec 2012 #7

Then make the Republicans own it. Just don't come Skidmore Dec 2012 #8

When it's obama who put it on the table, then it's obama who owns it. Not a good way to make HiPointDem Dec 2012 #12

Individual interpretation is a strange thing. renie408 Dec 2012 #71

so what? what does that have to do with people criticizing chained cpi? and who threatened HiPointDem Dec 2012 #114

Actually, I have seen several posters in the past couple of days say renie408 Dec 2012 #115

why would people who don't want SS cut vote for someone who'd voted to cut SS? It's not HiPointDem Dec 2012 #117

Agreed democrattotheend Dec 2012 #116

bullshit bigtree Dec 2012 #20

actually, the source cited is a democratic senate aide. maybe it's a lie, but that's what was HiPointDem Dec 2012 #21

I believe it was Jay Carney, the WH Press Sec. Bake Dec 2012 #32

YES Liberalynn Dec 2012 #41

So in other words you have nothing but rumor and innuendo as usual. tjwash Dec 2012 #43

Rational discussion is one thing. renie408 Dec 2012 #67

Waiting until after a deal is signed to object is really too late. fasttense Dec 2012 #5

Exactly. Nt newfie11 Dec 2012 #6

People who didn't object hay rick Dec 2012 #17

+1000 OnionPatch Dec 2012 #28

Very true. While it might be kinder to the president to hold our tongues, we have GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #109

Just one small point... kentuck Dec 2012 #9

I'm not so sure about that. Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #35

"You can't claim they are all 'progressives' " kentuck Dec 2012 #47

No, but it is safe to say Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #69

Balloons were floated. Shoot them down or else. nt Bonobo Dec 2012 #10

Yep. Let them know that we didn't re-elect them to be sellouts. reformist2 Dec 2012 #15

I hear ya about the alleged "progressives" and their Obama bashing, but... TreasonousBastard Dec 2012 #11

Governing Vs. Politicking... KharmaTrain Dec 2012 #13

. Prometheus_unbound Dec 2012 #14

Thank you. GoCubsGo Dec 2012 #16

I belive the technical terms include "holding his feet to the fire" or "making him do it" JHB Dec 2012 #18

That's not the same thing as "Obama is a turncoat" etc. jberryhill Dec 2012 #26

Not exactly "hypothetical" Bake Dec 2012 #37

Are you worried about obama's feelings being hurt? Logical Dec 2012 #19

So tell me, how does Obama pull that back and not look like bad faith negotiator? HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #22

k, so how many things are in that "coloring book" picture & what would the same picture look like patrice Dec 2012 #65

You've very cleverly not answered the question I posed. HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #75

I didn't "answer" because the question is flawed by oversimplification, you asked "how" about patrice Dec 2012 #95

I appreciate it's a 'complex' negotiation. HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #99

If the other side is offering something fake, I would consider the same tactic, BUT I patrice Dec 2012 #102

You can never offer what you won't really offer. HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #103

Since the other side is not negotiating in good faith, what would be the point of offering what patrice Dec 2012 #123

i'm so ashamed Enrique Dec 2012 #23

If we don't make a racket when something stupid or evil is proposed truebluegreen Dec 2012 #24

Well said One of the 99 Dec 2012 #25

It's because SOME of us understand how to negotiate. Bake Dec 2012 #38

Histrionics is not a good negotiation tool One of the 99 Dec 2012 #42

I do actual negotiations every day. I'm a lawyer. Bake Dec 2012 #45

Sure you do. One of the 99 Dec 2012 #48

You know what, Mr/Ms 590 posts? Bake Dec 2012 #50

So now number of posts One of the 99 Dec 2012 #54

You want my bar ID? Bake Dec 2012 #57

Why not argue based on the facts of the issue alone. One of the 99 Dec 2012 #118

You do not deal with negotiations on that same level treestar Dec 2012 #52

Bullshit. Negotiating is a skill. There are some things you cannot do. Bake Dec 2012 #55

Again, it's not a two way deal treestar Dec 2012 #59

So do I and so am I jberryhill Dec 2012 #82

I'm not posting my bar ID on an anonymous message board. Bake Dec 2012 #106

Funny how when President Obama doesn't act like a Democrat, a lot of people don't vote forestpath Dec 2012 #27

Sooner or later they'll get the message. Maybe. Bake Dec 2012 #46

My nomination for dumbest post of the day(so far) byeya Dec 2012 #68

I'm honored. forestpath Dec 2012 #83

I'm a "never will be able to retire" person RomneyLies Dec 2012 #72

I am truly sorry. But after President Obama is done with us.... forestpath Dec 2012 #79

Obama rso Dec 2012 #29

SHAMEFUL is the President having SS on the table in the talks. Autumn Dec 2012 #30

Exactly! marew Dec 2012 #77

I wonder Exen Trik Dec 2012 #31

Blah, blah, blah. Mustn't complain until it's to late to do anything about it. When we lose Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #33

It's not about complaining, per se. It's about how that's done & not admitting the limitations in patrice Dec 2012 #63

And lose you will. Every time. And after you get your well-deserved beating, you will come crawling Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #121

I really don't understand, honestly I don't. Why don't you consider "lose you will" a possibility patrice Dec 2012 #122

You completely miss the point. Losing is always a possibility, but every time our way has been Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #124

you haven't been around very long, oh, and Old Elm Tree snooper2 Dec 2012 #34

Huge K&R!!...nt SidDithers Dec 2012 #36

Naughty, NAUGHTY Democrats! Stop this instant! Wait till we hear the final word, and then be told, Safetykitten Dec 2012 #39

It is NOT bashing........ Hotler Dec 2012 #40

so what you're saying is it will be FINE to bash Obama RomneyLies Dec 2012 #49

It would be fine in that event treestar Dec 2012 #53

There is no excuse for it treestar Dec 2012 #51

Well Said ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #56

It's like all the critical posts about appointing Kerry or Hagel to the cabinet WI_DEM Dec 2012 #60

An aweful lot of people around here cutting ground out from under THEIR OWN positions. Strange, huh? patrice Dec 2012 #61

Rational critique is good, but HORSESHIT HURTS YOUR OWN CASE. Why are people doing that? patrice Dec 2012 #62

SHAPEFUL, and hopeful that the end result can still be shaped as Obama promised. Coyotl Dec 2012 #64

just like republicans think_critically Dec 2012 #66

I've seen this act before. DireStrike Dec 2012 #70

ALL true. . . . SO! this is about how what happens between 2) and 3) happens & telegraphing YOUR OWN patrice Dec 2012 #74

He is speaking live now and would not say he would not cut ss still_one Dec 2012 #81

Well that's good. DireStrike Dec 2012 #107

I am not sure if I feel better still_one Dec 2012 #113

Yes, very frustrating. GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #110

He is talking right now and was asked about ss. He is saying still_one Dec 2012 #78

Bookmarking this so I can easily compare it to the inevitable lame excuses later. Marr Dec 2012 #80

Even when the cuts are made to ss they will still deny still_one Dec 2012 #84

"He had no choice!" Marr Dec 2012 #86

To get some concept of what this process is like, try this FUN party game. link: patrice Dec 2012 #85

I am listening to the President right now . . . markpkessinger Dec 2012 #87

Friggin A right! tazkcmo Dec 2012 #111

I have seen this scenario play out many times Kelvin Mace Dec 2012 #88

F*** this. Are you listening to the cowardly words JimDandy Dec 2012 #89

I agree with the substance of your post, but I take issue with your history of the coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #92

The claim that The Left sat home in 2010 has been de-bunked ... bvar22 Dec 2012 #120

Oh I'm so incensed I'm posting again: What a cowardly JimDandy Dec 2012 #94

If anyone saw the "Impeach Obama" thread last night: THAT is the kind of shit this OP NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #97

Compromise winetourdriver Dec 2012 #98

No point in compromise if you get a better deal doing nothing. Sirveri Dec 2012 #104

^^^This^^^^ truebrit71 Dec 2012 #105

Rightfully bashed because of proposing it MNBrewer Dec 2012 #108

Do we get to talk about it after we're screwed? And, the Prez doesn't have to compromise. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #112