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PCIntern

(25,479 posts)
95. I fully expected this response,
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:26 AM
Dec 2012

And so I shall tell you why I posted the OP.

Someone suggested that I take the time to think about what I had written. I have spent the better part of sixty years ruminating upon my lost families; both sides utterly incinerated in the Holocaust. I have correspondence from that era in my possession,sent to my families here in the US, and they spoke of those go so quickly jumped on the bandwagon of hatred of Jews, of the exceptionalism of the necessity to denigrate and destroy the Jewish population, and the complete joy of many, nay almost everyone, who watched and participated in the rounding up and execution of the plan to eliminate the Jews from the society and of course, from the Earth. They were truly Hitler's Wiling Executioners. This included many intellectuals of all stripes and ranks and of course they were wildly successful in their endeavor.

So with nearly everyone dead, the relatively small band of survivors and help-mates were granted bythe United Nations, a portion of a tiny strip of land among all the potential enemies, yes enemies: the Egyptians, the Syrians, and all the rest, and given just one more chance to survive against all odds. From the first moment of her Independence, Israel has had to fend off those determined to destroy her and her people. It has often Ben said that if the Arabs laid down their weapons, as Egypt and Jordan have done so far, there would be peace, which there has been. If the Israelis laid down their weapons ther would be no more Israel and no more Jews.

Now of course, many of you will be sputtering your anger and protestations, and you know what? It doesn't matter to me or to most that you are so outraged by what you perceive, or believe that you perceive. There are many reasons why it behooves Civilization to maintain the Nation of Israel and those reasons transcend all your arguments. Your anger is lopsided, you disappeared from the Board here when cafes were bombed in Tel Aviv, when buses were blown up, when thousands of rockets poured into Israeli neighborhoods. You tend to re-emerge when some Israeli action is contemplated against terrorism of this sort. You found solace in this Board after 9/11 if you were here all those years ago, writing of th horrors of mass murder, I rarely read many posts when the bombings in Jaffa and Tel Aviv were almost weekly after Sabbath ended.

Well my friends, my family was mass-murdered and as I posted upthread, I am not going to just sit here quietly whilst there is a pile-on against Israel. There are folks who post here who are afraid your raining-down of outrage, of frustration, of anger, of vitriol, but many here posted responses to my OP hasd their pendula swing all the way Ither other direction. Nowhere in my post did I a vouch for the Mubarak Regime, nowhere did I say that these folks had no reason to riot, nowhere did I posit that it was ht inevitable. All I really said as that this is what many were excited about, and then it fell rather short, didn't it? This was enough for some to make me into a villain, a scapegoat, a hated enemy of all who are for the rights of the down-trodden. The anger, the personal viciousness of several of the posts was palpable. Perhaps you should hear a story, and then you might better understand....

Many years ago, when my parents had split, my mother of blessed memory got a job up near Trenton NJ and we moved to the idyllic town of New Hope, PA, known for its artists and writers colony. What you may not know about central Bucks County in those days was that it was a hotbed of racism and antiSemitism. From the first day we moved there, we were ostracized by the working-class inhabitants, I was called Jewbastard at the school bus stop, I was routinely pounced upon and hurt badly at times, and almost unbelievably, and it happened many times, the Police cars would see what was happening and keep on driving, even thought they knew exactly what was occurring because the cops were neighbors too, and their kids were involved. I never told my mother because we couldn't afford to move from the apartment to anywhere else. I suffered at the hands of these working-class thugs and their offspring for years, until I grew big enough to defend myself. As with all bullies, you only have to take one down and the rest cower in fear, for they are cowards at heart. All I had to do was take one do was take one down to the sidewalk and slice his ear against the concrete and the volume of blood was enormous. They left me alone after that, more or less; the bloodstained sidewalk was evident for years at the school bus stop, a reminder of what the Jew did to their buddy. I never had a major incident again.

So why the relation of the story here? Not to impress you with my fighting prowess,but to assist you in understanding that all I did was show up, and that was enough to be hated. All Israel did in 1948 was to show up and the Egyptialn dive bombers began that day and the war has not stopped since. Many of you will argue this point. Fine. But understand this: My OP had nothing to do with this conflict, but the knee-jerk response was certainly interesting. As to those of you who say you normally respect my opinions, perhaps you might take a moment between gasps and think that there might be something else going on here with which you are not entirely aware. Perhaps there is more to this than the propaganda form both sides would have you believe. I said "both sides" not for equivalency, but for fairness and equality and egalitarianism. Perhaps there are issues, stories, and other developments which are not within your ability to know about or to grasp given a limited range of experience. Perhaps before jumping down a poster's throat, a poster who has been righteous over many years here with respect to the need to expunge the Conservative members of the duly-elected government might have a valid point of view, or an opinion which, although it might differ radically from yours, may be well-conceived and worthy of some merit. It is the fashion of the Rethugs to blast those who don't agree in toto with every facet of their viewpoints. It is not necessary here, nor is it a valid intellectual exercise.

As a rejoinder, I am disappointed in many here who decided, because of my avatar and posting history, to exorcise me as a Demon of Zionism. Someday, many will come to understand what has really been occurring and what might have been able to be achieved if only there were peace over there. If your stand is that the only way there can be peace is for Israel to capitulate to her enemies, then thata is your opinion and you are entitled to it. As I am entitled to mine.

And there we have it Recursion Dec 2012 #1
There's that false equivalency again...pesky little devil... PCIntern Dec 2012 #5
That belongs to other countries? Aerows Dec 2012 #33
Or real life example close to home tama Dec 2012 #75
... Matariki Dec 2012 #125
I quote: JDPriestly Dec 2012 #82
I don't understand the tone of your post. rucky Dec 2012 #2
This is nature of democracy and revolutionary politics TomClash Dec 2012 #3
I agree Old and In the Way Dec 2012 #79
The poster is clear enough about his support for the JackRiddler Dec 2012 #81
Too bad there's no more "Shame On You" cards left in the deck. rucky Dec 2012 #109
this to will pass into the history books. madrchsod Dec 2012 #4
Way to jump the gun! pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #6
If I could summarize the OP in a few words (as if the avatar doesn't already): coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #11
um... you are aware that a shitload of Israelis ARE these brown people? ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #14
Jesus H. Christ, 20% of Israel's population is Arab. I have never been there, but coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #20
ok fine... ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #23
No worries. I hope to visit Israel one day. Always wanted to try my hand at coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #26
What color will they be? Or will we have to invent a new one? pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #44
It's almost a truism among Marxist-Leninist critiques of capitalism that the coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #47
Black and White tama Dec 2012 #77
Gloating over misery and violence. WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #7
It really bugs me how much of a theme that is here re: the Arab Spring Posteritatis Dec 2012 #72
Yeah, democracy sucks. bemildred Dec 2012 #8
Morsi agrees with you... n/t ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #10
What do you think about it? nt bemildred Dec 2012 #31
i think morsi made a big power grab after a little juice got going ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #35
No, about democracy, do you think democracy sucks? bemildred Dec 2012 #42
actually, yes, pure democracy sucks... ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #93
I thought so. nt bemildred Dec 2012 #98
so... mob rule ... rules? i hope you don't live in the USA. ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #107
This place is named Democratic Underground. bemildred Dec 2012 #118
you have no idea what a pure democracy looks like ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #126
Well then, neither do you, for the same reason, so you don't know what you are talking about. nt bemildred Dec 2012 #127
ah, but I am not the one trying to defend it... ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #128
No, you're trying to attack it, but you don't know what you're talking about. bemildred Dec 2012 #130
I'm disappointed Skidmore Dec 2012 #9
+1000 trumad Dec 2012 #15
+2000 pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #18
+3000 UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #89
+3000 LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #103
hate to disturb your doom and gloom but quinnox Dec 2012 #12
An Islamic theocracy is "moving along"? TrueBlueinCO Dec 2012 #88
What did you imagine they'd have? An atheist parliament? Nt DevonRex Dec 2012 #121
ummmmm, no TrueBlueinCO Dec 2012 #123
The reality is that they undoubtedly feel DevonRex Dec 2012 #124
Ya none of those people deserve life. aandegoons Dec 2012 #13
The Problem Is It Took Us Over Two Hundred Years To Build A Republic And Many Still Don't Like It DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #16
Closer to eight hundred. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #70
Yeah, *some* people can't handle freedom. Barack_America Dec 2012 #17
If you ask Founding Fathers tama Dec 2012 #78
Congratulations to you too. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #19
Morsi isn't interested in an 'actual democracy' n/t B2G Dec 2012 #21
and Morsi is not the Arab Spring n/t Enrique Dec 2012 #29
He's the direct result of it. B2G Dec 2012 #39
so is Elbaradei Enrique Dec 2012 #45
Morsi won the election, the constitution will go to a popular vote. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #41
First off, this OP is disgusting...... marmar Dec 2012 #22
it sounds as if the OP wanted the status quo forever quinnox Dec 2012 #24
Cui bono? TomClash Dec 2012 #84
How many years was it after we declared ourselves independent with 'liberty for all' and grantcart Dec 2012 #25
And how many before that were needed to get the philosophical underpinnings in place? Posteritatis Dec 2012 #73
The beginnings of our democracy was a total mess & very complicated as well. JaneyVee Dec 2012 #27
Not to mention the present tama Dec 2012 #80
i think people were more realistic than that Enrique Dec 2012 #28
The majority of Arabs are Muslims and are anti-Israel FarCenter Dec 2012 #30
You're right. Those people needed to shut the fuck up and put up with their shitty conditions no Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2012 #32
Sorry but Israel's policies makes it a rogue nation. Ya Basta Dec 2012 #34
Horrible Post... Iggy Dec 2012 #36
its possible that the arab spring will help the region Mosby Dec 2012 #57
There's a depressingly large pile of people here who believe just that. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #71
Yeah, I see that Iggy Dec 2012 #83
The bar's certainly set with a shovel these days. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #85
We understand. The Arabs are sub-humans. alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #37
Submit. Obey. Do Not Question Authority! Do not rebel against tyranny. Zorra Dec 2012 #38
Apparently Personal Freedom is to be Enjoyed ONLY Iggy Dec 2012 #94
I was never too excited about the Arab spring, but I wish I could unrec your OP because it is bad. JVS Dec 2012 #40
Whew. Zionist tells it like he sees it. Thanks for the honesty. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #43
Classic hit and run post. WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #46
Yes, I had noticed that a certain someone has gone conspicuously AWOL on this thread. Grr, that coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #48
What should piss you off PCIntern Dec 2012 #49
Can I be pissed off on both accounts? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #50
Hit and run? PCIntern Dec 2012 #51
radicals? a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #54
Well, as I said, I can be pissed by the Morsi abuses nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #55
can't both piss one off? Do you honestly support what Israel does vis a vis cali Dec 2012 #52
Somehow... a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #56
North Africa is good pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #59
I haven't visited Africa in decades... a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #60
It will be a BIG change for you pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #61
I sounds like it could be fun... but... a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #63
Your failure to respond to pinboy3niner's substantive reply in post #6 ff. speaks coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #64
This OP makes DU suck RetroLounge Dec 2012 #53
Well, it's not over yet. But it doesn't look promising. Then again, is it worse than before... Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #58
Let's put Mubarak back!!! JackRiddler Dec 2012 #62
Bring back Pharaoh! - n/t coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #65
I think that would be interesting. Still don't know how Belgium jumped into this discussion. freshwest Dec 2012 #92
Yeah, this was a classic 'hit and run' OP, as William Pitt observed. But had the OP coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #96
You know what? xfundy Dec 2012 #66
Somewhat clairvoyant... PCIntern Dec 2012 #68
Much like PCIntern, I saw this coming from a mile away as well TrueBlueinCO Dec 2012 #87
"The people there don't even cherish freedom as a value." Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #111
Some do...and some don't. zellie Dec 2012 #113
And the irony was totally lost on this young lad zellie Dec 2012 #115
Freedom is a journey, not a destination. Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #67
The whole time I've mainly seen people desperately hoping for it to fall on its face. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #69
You should really stop for a minute and think about what you wrote Marrah_G Dec 2012 #74
He's a hit and run poster, without either the courage to defend his thesis, respond to his critics, coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #119
So we should continue to support despots? mahina Dec 2012 #76
ohfercrissake riverwalker Dec 2012 #86
What the hell? Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #90
Oh look, an Israel fanatic who doesn't like the Arab Spring LittleBlue Dec 2012 #91
I fully expected this response, PCIntern Dec 2012 #95
remembering the Holocaust is righteous Enrique Dec 2012 #99
And what do you think you are doing to them? aandegoons Dec 2012 #101
"all I did was show up, and that was enough to be hated" WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #102
And Israel did a bit more than "just show up". Barack_America Dec 2012 #116
"among all the potential enemies," FarCenter Dec 2012 #104
"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing." ~ Albert Einstein Zorra Dec 2012 #110
I get that you're mourning the evil done to your ancestors. Barack_America Dec 2012 #112
That is incredibly insightful and honest zellie Dec 2012 #114
Your murdered forbearers do not justify what you posted. Scootaloo Dec 2012 #129
I don't get your point. Are you suggesting Arab countries are incapable morningfog Dec 2012 #97
I assume you read the draft Constitution? Coyotl Dec 2012 #100
Maybe the administration has decided Israel is not worth the backlash to the US. dkf Dec 2012 #105
Nothing in the Universe ends well, my friend... PCIntern Dec 2012 #106
Ah.... The Arab Spring zellie Dec 2012 #108
What This hasn't been banned by the sanctimonious jury panel? garthranzz Dec 2012 #117
You have conveniently forgotten what Israel did to one of its own dissidents, Mordechai coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #120
what "the Arabs" are doing Enrique Dec 2012 #122
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